Escalating fear aggression - any advice?

[Michelin]

Hello,

We have a usually very lovely but (as with many!) super anxious adoptee called Mich. He has had challenges settling in, including a rather intense fear of his reflection, bad separation anxiety, and reactivity to dogs. We've made some progress, and he has been on fluoxetine for maybe 7 weeks. It seems generally that when he is scared, it results in aggression and it escalates quickly.

I have seen lots of posts with people having challenges in these early months and getting tips as well as a bit of moral support and I guess I'm hoping for some of the same! This is a great forum. We have really fallen in love with him and don't want to let him down.

Mich has began reacting angrily to me. Not my partner at all. He is usually very affectionate. Seems to be mostly in the evenings although yesterday he did it when I came in from separation training in the morning. It's a mix of growling, leaping, barking, air snapping. Luckily no bites yet. Worryingly he doesn't always growl or bark first but leaps. For now I am spending my evenings upstairs away from him. 

We can't suss out whether it's space aggression, sleep startle, resource guarding or what. It's happened in a range of circumstances - after he invited me to pet him and then decided no. Sometimes it's when I move - come into a room he's in, enter the house, or come downstairs. In those cases I have been approaching where he is although sometimes at quite a distance. 

He is still hanging out with me, is excited to walk together, and coming to me for neck scritches sometimes. He's generally a nervous dude though, yawny and liplicky.

We are trying to find a behaviourist now to help as we are very keen to work on this. I guess my first question is - anyone encountered anything like this? Our adoption group just said we should return him. 

My second question is - this is making me worried for if we ever had kids. Admittedly, I think this is at least 3 years away - possibly more. Have people's doggies relaxed during those first few years at all? I can live with being careful around him but this (seemingly) sudden switch flip to aggression is making me nervous.

Thanks for reading my short essay 😅😅 am feeling so down about this and would love any advice. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Michelin
It was so long!

[HeyRunDog]

It could be that he's sensing your fear and thinks he's the boss whereas your partner is more confident in his actions and voice and so Mich looks up to him. I know it's difficult but try and act confident around him and keep your voice calm and forceful when telling him NO without shouting or raising it's pitch and praise him when he's behaved correctly in a more light and breezy voice.

Returning him is NOT a failure. He just isn't the right greyhound for you but another one will be. Greyhounds are like people, there are all different. You don't get on with everyone you meet and greyhounds are the same.

 

[Michelin]

Hi @HeyRunDog - thanks so much for commenting. And I know what you mean, we wondered that too. Although, equally, I have read a lot about pack theory being disproven and it's so hard to know what's right! It's tricky though because at least half the time I've actually not been nervous as I've really not expected it - and I have also stuck to my guns and ignored it, whilst keeping my distance, and it's still happening.

Thank you for your reassurance about returning him. We are still going to try and work through it first, but it is nice to not be judged. We've tried hard to do right by him.

[Feefee147]

On 3/23/2021 at 7:58 AM, Michelin said:

Hello,

We have a usually very lovely but (as with many!) super anxious adoptee called Mich. He has had challenges settling in, including a rather intense fear of his reflection, bad separation anxiety, and reactivity to dogs. We've made some progress, and he has been on fluoxetine for maybe 7 weeks. It seems generally that when he is scared, it results in aggression and it escalates quickly.

I have seen lots of posts with people having challenges in these early months and getting tips as well as a bit of moral support and I guess I'm hoping for some of the same! This is a great forum. We have really fallen in love with him and don't want to let him down.

Mich has began reacting angrily to me. Not my partner at all. He is usually very affectionate. Seems to be mostly in the evenings although yesterday he did it when I came in from separation training in the morning. It's a mix of growling, leaping, barking, air snapping. Luckily no bites yet. Worryingly he doesn't always growl or bark first but leaps. For now I am spending my evenings upstairs away from him. 

We can't suss out whether it's space aggression, sleep startle, resource guarding or what. It's happened in a range of circumstances - after he invited me to pet him and then decided no. Sometimes it's when I move - come into a room he's in, enter the house, or come downstairs. In those cases I have been approaching where he is although sometimes at quite a distance. 

He is still hanging out with me, is excited to walk together, and coming to me for neck scritches sometimes. He's generally a nervous dude though, yawny and liplicky.

We are trying to find a behaviourist now to help as we are very keen to work on this. I guess my first question is - anyone encountered anything like this? Our adoption group just said we should return him. 

My second question is - this is making me worried for if we ever had kids. Admittedly, I think this is at least 3 years away - possibly more. Have people's doggies relaxed during those first few years at all? I can live with being careful around him but this (seemingly) sudden switch flip to aggression is making me nervous.

Thanks for reading my short essay 😅😅 am feeling so down about this and would love any advice. 

Hey! 

I have no helpful advice at all, particularly for the issue you are having with him personally - sorry! 

All I wanted to say is that when we first got our grey 12 months ago he was a mess! Anxious, resource guarding, snappy, unable to be left alone even in a separate room without crying his heart out, terrified outdoors, lunging at squirrels, trying to grab small dogs, terrified of bigger dogs.... so I hear you. It's hard and there were times I cried my heart out wondering if I could ever give him a happy life! 

The one good thing is that we could always identify his triggers though, so didn't have the problem you are having with random aggression towards you for no obvious reason. 

However, we did find that (as everyone said although I didnt really believe it at the time) it really does take a long time for these lovely big creatures to adjust and relax. So whilst I'm not suggesting that you should keep him if you are fearful he will bite you (that's something you will have to decide), I can honestly say that with time, patience and some good bonding/boundary instilling training we have come a hell of a long way and we now after a year have a gorgeous, big, tail waggly grey. Training helped immensely - all sorts from 'off' (beds and sofas if he was resource guarding), leave it, find it, wait...etc all helped to engage him, build up trust and a bond between us all, and also taught him that both my partner and I were here to guide and love him (I agree pack training is debunked generally but they still need to learn boundaries and right from wrong).

It sounds as though you are incredibly keen and dedicated, which is absolutely lovely. And it's nice to read that you're keen to continue rather than hand him back. And I just wanted to send a hug and say 'chin-up'. Things WILL get better!

 

[Michelin]

On 3/30/2021 at 7:07 PM, Feefee147 said:

Hey! 

I have no helpful advice at all, particularly for the issue you are having with him personally - sorry! 

All I wanted to say is that when we first got our grey 12 months ago he was a mess! Anxious, resource guarding, snappy, unable to be left alone even in a separate room without crying his heart out, terrified outdoors, lunging at squirrels, trying to grab small dogs, terrified of bigger dogs.... so I hear you. It's hard and there were times I cried my heart out wondering if I could ever give him a happy life! 

The one good thing is that we could always identify his triggers though, so didn't have the problem you are having with random aggression towards you for no obvious reason. 

However, we did find that (as everyone said although I didnt really believe it at the time) it really does take a long time for these lovely big creatures to adjust and relax. So whilst I'm not suggesting that you should keep him if you are fearful he will bite you (that's something you will have to decide), I can honestly say that with time, patience and some good bonding/boundary instilling training we have come a hell of a long way and we now after a year have a gorgeous, big, tail waggly grey. Training helped immensely - all sorts from 'off' (beds and sofas if he was resource guarding), leave it, find it, wait...etc all helped to engage him, build up trust and a bond between us all, and also taught him that both my partner and I were here to guide and love him (I agree pack training is debunked generally but they still need to learn boundaries and right from wrong).

It sounds as though you are incredibly keen and dedicated, which is absolutely lovely. And it's nice to read that you're keen to continue rather than hand him back. And I just wanted to send a hug and say 'chin-up'. Things WILL get better!

 

Oh gosh thank you for this lovely message. Exactly what I needed to read. So glad your dude has found a good home.

I think you're right that training will help as he will know what we want from him - got to work on that as we have only made progress with wait and recall so far! 

Thankfully we haven't had a reaction since last Wednesday and we have a trainer coming tomorrow. Fingers crossed it all works out.