More Stair Issues

[Batmom]

Normal. For the first month or two here, my angel Joseph was totally deer-in-the-headlights. No interest in being outside any longer than to do bathroom duty, no interest in toys, didn't seek us out for anything ..... His brain was just too full of all the new things around. Once he got a bit used to his environment, that all changed -- he loved to go outside and play and sunbathe, loved the toy box, loved our little training and dog petting sessions .... My new dog isn't as obvious about it but she seems to have gone through some brief stages where she just can't take any more in. So at that point we fall back on the basics -- don't bite anybody and do go to the bathroom outdoors.

 

Having to learn something big like stairs (or being in a home at all, as opposed to a kennel) takes a lot of brain power. Once he isn't so busy processing those things, life will get a lot easier. Likely just a matter of another week or two.

[Guest Davros]

i hope seeing the other hound use the stairs worked for you!

 

i too was doing the one-paw-at-at-time ordeal, leaving my hound crazily stressed and shaking... luring didn't work beyond where she could get with her front paws, while the back legs were still on the ground... or just giving up and carrying her for the first week and a bit... and then i let my youngest belgian out with her... he tore up the stairs and she was up after him 3 at a time!

 

when she first arrived i had been terrified that she'd somehow fall down the things and hurt herself badly... seeing my other dog go up and down like it was nothing gave her that 'ah-ha!' moment... and after the first trip up at speed she was a little more careful while on her own for a bit, but now tackles my huge staircase with ease, and i'm not in the least bit concerned : )

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Hello All,

 

It has been over a week now, and though things have improved, going up the stairs is still quite a struggle (and he is way too big for me to carry him.)

 

He now goes down quite willingly, which helps because he is not so stressed when he gets outside and will do a little bit of walking, though he will still statue at various times. I can't figure out if he is seeing/hearing something that is scaring him? Or testing me to see who is the leader.

 

We have not found a treat that is high enough in value to get him up the stairs. But last night, after doing the paw-paw-push from behind method on the first section. We left the door open and went inside. Within a few minutes he came in. So the deal seems to be, he CAN do them, he just doesn't want to. Unfortunately, it is a shared stairwell to another apartment, so we don't want to leave him much and risk that somebody comes home and he bolts. If we decide to do this, we will either station one of us outside and/or put a sign on the door to use extreme caution when entering. Last night we knew nobody was home and that they would be out for awhile.

 

When I try to jovially bring him in and just keep walking up the steps like it is a fun game, he will have no part in it and just dig in.

 

 

He is chewing the table (sigh)-----not interested in his Nyla bone. Will stop when we give him an emphatic NO, but then he pouts. He did nip at J. when being pet lying down (I've now read TONS on that subject and we are giving him a wider berth). Up until then, he seemed happy to be pet when lying down. I always tested by stopping to see what he would do, and he usually lifted his head in my direction (which I took to mean "why are you stopping?") But what do I know.

 

Anyway, we think we are making improvements, but it is still quite hard on the back to get him going up those stairs. He does fine on some easier, shallower stairs, but doesn't make the connection. He also will sometimes refuse to go up/down those (outside porch steps) as if he's never seen them.

 

My one other question is: Is there a right way to go up stairs? I wonder if some of our attempts have confused him because it isn't natural.

 

When going down, he goes down with one front paw and then the other front paw and then moves both front paws to the next step. He then brings both his back paws to the next step at the same time (like a little jump). Coming up, he tends to jump the last two stairs. I feel like this is not a long term solution.

 

Both vet and adoption agency had no good advice. "He'll figure it out" and "be patient." We are trying on all accounts, but phew! It is hard work. I keep hoping he will just get it, though it seems to be taking a long time compared to other greyhounds.

 

Thanks for all the help. I'm reading "Retired Racing Greyhounds for Dummies" which all makes so much more sense to me now that I have a dog!

[a_daerr]

So the deal seems to be, he CAN do them, he just doesn't want to.

 

Maybe the reason why he's taken to going down instead of up is because he doesn't like all the touching and handling that's going on. Is there a way to give him time to try different things on his own without all the pressure? I tried a million different things to get my guys to learn the dog door. The easiest solution was giving them an opportunity to figure it out on their own.

[Batmom]

Keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like it IS working, just not as fast as desired.

[Guest shanesmom]

He sure sounds like my Ace and your situation is very much like mine. I live in a second floor condo and stairs are not an option. He had to learn the stairs. Now Ace is my third greyhound and I have had other greyhounds in my condo before him. Other than him I was able to teach all the others the stairs in a day. Ace is very skittish though and does not have the confidence the others had so it did take about a month of back breaking time before he learned the stairs. He suddenly went right up and has been racing up them ever since. I always had him do the last couple himself and that helped with his confidence. Your boy will get it. He will get more confident all the time. It will become easier to teach him new things. It just takes time and lots of patience for some of them.

[Guest mirinaaronsmom]

Did your friend with the greyhound come to help? I was going to suggest having another dog go up so he can watch. When I got my first hound, stairs were a challenge for a full month until some friends came over with their two shelties. As soon as all of us were upstairs and he was at the bottom missing out, he figured out how to come up on his own. And when I got my second hound, she learned much faster having another to teach her. Treats have never worked with any of mine (fosters or my own) - they're always too stressed to eat. And I've noticed that each hound has his/her own style for going up and down. My little girl goes up one foot at a time - she's so quiet I don't even hear her. But my first hound kind of jumped a couple of steps at a time with his hind end and sounded like a herd of elephants, and he always jumped the last couple. I still have to hold El'zar's collar going down just to slow his momentum - he never knows where his big feet are.

[quarrystepper]

Keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like it IS working, just not as fast as desired.

 

Agree with this... on all fronts. Sounds like normal transition time re: nipping while he's laying down, being a little wary. We were lucky with our two current greyhounds. One had been fostered and was a champion stairmaster. The other was fresh off the track but gave it the old college try and, though awkward, was at least capable of scrambling to the top when it was clear we'd be hanging out upstairs for a while. She now loves going up the stairs because it almost always means she'll find a ball of yarn to toss around.

 

Good luck, and can't wait to see a photo!

[Guest Giselle]

So, physically, he can do it. BUT Mentally, he's scared of them. Well, then, stop pushing and shoving, and focus on fixing his fear. This is my suggestion:

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/299264-teaching-stairs-to-a-tripod-who-never-learned-prior-to-amp/

(scroll down for my post on how to desensitize and counter condition dogs to stairs)

 

Dogs aren't people. They can't rationalize to themselves and think, "Alright, just do it. I'll get over it eventually." Dogs don't think like that as far as science can tell. What we DO know is that dogs are GREAT at associating things. And, so far, your dog has associated stairs with a physical struggle every time - nudging, prodding, pushing him up and down when he very clearly has a fear of the stairs. Given this association, it is not surprising that he's responding so slowly. Now, if we focus on the fear itself and we try to nix the fear by changing his association, this will speed up his learning and affinity for the stairs much faster.

 

The key, however, is never to breach the point where he refuses food. If he is so stressed that he cannot eat, he cannot think, either. This is beyond the point that we can work with them. I illustrate in baby steps how to use food effectively and keep the dogs thinking/working with us the entire time. I prefer using Target games because they're easy behaviors to keep the dog happily focused on us.

 

If, for nothing else, I would strongly suggest trying the steps I laid out in that other thread for time purposes. Physically struggling with dogs can take many weeks until they just "give up and do it". When I seek to change dogs' emotional states through desensitization and counter-conditioning, however, I see changes in behavior within minutes or days, at most.