More Stair Issues

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Hello All,

We are brand new to Greyhounds and just adopted our beautiful dog on Saturday. We live on a second floor apartment, though, and have been having a lot of issues with the stairs. Unfortunately, he really HAS to go up these stairs to get into the apartment.

 

We have tried many things, and it does not seem to be improving much. Each time he gets to the stairs, he freezes. Our dog is really large which makes it that much tricker to help him up the stairs (85 pounds!)

 

Here is what we have tried:

*holding leash 6 inches away from collar and walking ourselves up with confidence. This gets us nowhere....he digs in at the bottom and won't budge. We don't want to pull on him as we've read that is bad.
*hot dogs and his favorite squeaky toy. The squeaky toy definitely gets him interested, but it doesn't get him up the stairs without further prodding. The hot dogs he also wants, but not enough to go on his own.

*So, the process goes something like this. I put both his front paws on the second step, hold them, reach back for his back right leg and put that on the first step, then I nudge him from behind. Squeaky toy and hot dog are at the landing. We usually need to do this several times before he will make a scramble for it to the next landing (there are 3 sections, one is only 2 steps). We do have rubber pads on the steps, but it is not our house so we can't change this to carpet. We do have him next to the wall as we go up for security, and the steps and wall are solid. He also has no problem with our 4 outside steps that are cement and wider.

 

Unfortunately, he gets so nervous about this that it takes a lot out of him and sometimes will dig in once we're out and not want to go for a walk at all, thought this just started last night and we are wondering if he has a paw injury (walks a bit funny outside, but not inside, so it is hard to tell). The urgency, of course, is that we need to also teach him to urinate/defecate outside so we want to get him in and out several times a day. It is such an ordeal that it holds us back. Today my partner went back to work after the weekend (and he is better at getting Tracks up the stairs), so it is me on my own trying to get him up and down, at least for his noon-time outing and then J. will be home by 5. We have never gotten mad at him or frustrated for this, but we have had to use some force to put his paws on the steps and get him going because otherwise, he just sits there.

 

I really look for any/all advice that you can give me. I have read the other forums on stairs but also look for other suggestions specific to our case. Otherwise, he is so sweet and adorable, but we're afraid this stress and nervousness is bumming him out too much and making him unhappy.

 

The good things he does: goes in his crate easily, slept through last night with very little crying/whining, lays wherever we are and seems totally comfortable having us step over him to get to another part of the room (seems like he trusts us). Walks well on leash when he is willing to walk. Wants to please etc. But the stair thing is back-breaking work and we don't want to scare him or make him feel so stressed out that he doesn't want to live here.

 

Thanks for any advice you can give!

Edited June 17, 2013 by Prof_Bananas

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

No worries. This is a typical issue. I am in a similar boat as you. I have a raised ranch house that has 9 open-face wood stairs to get to the potty area, and the best part is I foster only broken leg hounds, soooo. Here is what I do (which is very similar to what you are doing):

 

1) to walk down, slip my hand through the loop of the collar and hold the collar like a suit case. Keep the hound's head at my hip and slowly walk down the stairs. For the first few days the hound will lock his legs at the top of the stairs, just slowly pull him over the top and keep his head to your hip. You control the speed that he goes down the stairs. Be sure that you are supporting his weight so that he doesn't fall or feel like he is out of control.

 

2) to walk up, just what you do. Get behind the boy. Put front right leg up a stair, then same side rear leg up one stair, then left front up one stair, then back left up one stair. Keep repeating until he is up the stairs. Keep your body against his butt so that he cannot back down, as well as do not allow him to bend and turn around.

 

The key is consistency and repetitiveness. You can practice a few times in a row. Go up, then down, then up, then down. Be sure to encourage the whole time, don't get upset. Remember he has never seen stairs in his life and has no idea what to do. When you get to the top or bottom, throw a party, toss a toy, give treats, ect. In my house the hounds have to learn to do the stairs by themselves as soon as they come in the house. This method usually takes about 3-5 days and they get it.

 

One thing to note, when they need to learn stairs and are afraid, they will avoid going outside to eliminate so be sure to take him out more frequently as sometimes they will have accidents in the house because they are afraid to go down the stairs.

 

Chad

Edited June 17, 2013 by Greyt_dog_lover

[Batmom]

What Greyt_dog_lover said. Only minor difference is that for going down, I like to put either a harness or wide, non-choking collar on the dog to provide a little more support without pinching their neck.

 

I praise mightily and treat (if they'll take it) for each step going up. I do this even when I'm behind the dog moving feet and boosting butt. "Good dog!" + treat for each step. As dog starts to lose fear and is just waiting for me to help, THEN I start putting a treat one step out of reach and helping them (boosting butt) get to it. Going down, I don't stop for treats along the way but I keep up the "Good dog!" all through, then "Good dog!" plus treat at the bottom. It can help to use absolutely delicious treats (those hot dogs, cheddar cheese cubes, freshly poached chicken ....) that they don't get any other time.

 

I have also found with my newest dog that it was a BIG HELP to go up and down a couple times in a row. Exhausting for both of us, but really helped her learn what she had to do AND to look forward to those treats . BTW, she is the second dog I've taught stairs that had a bit more trouble figuring out "down" than "up."

 

Good luck!

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Thanks so much for the advice. With the down method, is it okay to do this with just his Martingale collar? We don't have a harness, but I wonder if that feels less like support and more like neck pulling?

 

On the up method, I'll try it one step at a time. What has been happening is we get him part way up (there are only about 10 steps, a turn, 2 steps, and then 10 steps again) so he kind of tries to leap to the landing at a certain point....and we are definitely afraid he will get hurt!

[Batmom]

Down is fine with just martingale -- I *would* make sure it's snug enough, and then grab the whole collar (not the pull loop) so it's not tightening as you go down.

 

 

My newest girl also thought she should leap up the stairs in a couple bounds, once she got just a smidge comfortable with the whole idea. So we actually had to go backwards for a couple days and put treats on each step or every other step, to reinforce "one step at a time." Once the dog knows how to do the steps inside out and backwards (so to speak ) , I let them do what they want, but until then I think it's useful for them to learn how to do it the slow way .

[Feisty49]

What was said above but emphasizing doing it a few times in a row, several times a day if necessary, regardless of the need to go outside for a walk or P&P.

 

My girl hated stairs. She spent the first 6 months post adoption sleeping alone downstairs because she wouldn't do the stairs to the second floor. One night she decided she hated being alone and whined at the bottom of the stairs. That night I slept downstairs with her, but I don't give up my bed for sleeping, not even for my much-loved Annie. The next day with total confidence (they sense any hesitation or insecurity on the part of their human) I did the foot/foot, foot/foot, push the butt, standing right behind her. We did it 4 times, up and down, one right after the other, with treats at top and bottom (Annie's not food motivated so that had nothing to do with her success). The 5th time I started up she took off on her own and has been fine ever since.

 

It's difficult -- very difficult -- to be totally secure and confident in the beginning -- I know I wasn't -- but it is necessary. If I can give additional advice it is remember your boy is a dog and you are a human. Use your common sense, and be assured that if you want it to happen, it will.

 

BTW, what is his name and where is his picture? :--)

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

 

 

BTW, what is his name and where is his picture? :--)

 

 

Thanks for all the advice! We will keep trying and let you know how it goes. I try to have total confidence, but am probably not pulling it off. His name is Tracks (it was the name he came with, and it just seems to suit him...and he is very cute!). I have to figure out how to post the picture..... I didn't see an obvious way in my profile settings.

[philospher77]

If you are looking for a super-motivating treat: Mix equal parts cream cheese and liverwurst, and add enough bread crumbs/crushed shredded wheat/all-bran cereal (basically, anything dry and edible) to make a play-dough consistency. That's what I use for pilling, but the dogs just love the stuff! Or, raw chicken feet. That got my spook onto a table.

[Guest Waterdog66]

We had an issue with Audrey and the stairs when we brought her home and after gumby walking her a few times she started going up and down when she really wanted to but not when I needed her to. (Like to go outside to go potty in the morning)

 

What I did was to start out with a small treat on every step of the stairs to lure her up and down. She seemed to respond well to this so I started to put the treats just on the three landings. (Our stairs spiral around 3 landings) Then I scaled it back further to just of offering a treat when she completed it. Within about a week or so of work, she started to follow me up and down without issue. (Velcro dog style)

 

One thing I figured out is that conditions need to be right. I noticed every once in a while she would freeze at the top and figured out it was because the hall light was not on. As soon as I turn on the light, she comes right down. (The Foyer Light is not good enough)

 

I think the end we both got a lot of enjoyment out of the whole thing and it was a great bonding activity.

 

One Note: She still does not like treats so what I used to lure her was just a few bits of kibble which she loves. I left a small container upstairs just before I went to bed so I had a supply ready to get her down and out of the house to go potty. (I was not keen on letting her roam the upstairs with a full bladder)

[Sambuca]

I use different techniques that have worked well for me. For going down, I grab the pups collar, put his head in my butt and just start walking. When his head is in your butt, he can't see all the stairs and its less scary. To go up the stairs, I put the pups front feet on the second step. I stand directly behind the dog using the leash only so that the dog can't turn in the stairs. I then put my knee in the pups crotch and lift/push. This has worked with many fosters and within 2 days all of them were doing stairs either unaided or with just a gentle hand on their collar. I live alone and my joints and back aren't great so I had to figure something out.

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Thanks everybody. We are on our 3rd day and have not seen any progress....if anything, he seems a lot more afraid (which makes us wonder if we did something to scare him.) We have never gotten mad or upset, and we do get really excited when he gets down or up. Even if he wants the treat, it isn't enough to get him to actually do it (even when it is on the stair in front of him where he doesn't even need to actually climb to get it.) Sadly, even his squeak toy isn't doing it for him now. Unfortunately, my back is getting sore because he is such a big boy (85 pounds!). When I've tried the "suitcase" method, I can't get him to even move. I think I am afraid of hurting him or traumatizing him. Won't this sort of pulling on his neck hurt him? We are trying to find the balance between being confident and in charge, and not wanting to stress him out or spook him too much. Sambuca, I wish I could get your method to work!

 

Shouldn't we see gradual improvement? Or is there an "ah ha" moment?

 

We will keep trying and just hope that he figures this out.

[Sambuca]

Why can't you get my method to work? Lift the rear end with your knee, it will force the front end to go up. You use the leash just to prevent the dog from turning.

[Batmom]

Keep at it. Sometimes you get gradual improvement, sometimes little leaps of understanding, sometimes a bit of backsliding.

 

Going up, I keep my knees behind the dog's butt ... bend over the dog's back with one hand on the dog's collar ... one hand to move the feet, one at a time. I use my knees to help boost the dog's butt and keep the dog from turning around.

 

Going down, I did have one dog that I had to start out lifting the front end down one stair and then the back end. I did that while crouching alongside the dog. I used a harness on that dog -- the harness was unfamiliar so that added a little insult to injury, but it helped me support a large, frightened pup without hurting him.

 

I don't pull on the collar. I use the collar only to help stabilize the dog on the way down the stairs and try really hard not to exert any pressure there unless the dog needs some support.

 

Have you talked to your adoption group? Could be they have an experienced person who can come and give some pointers / help to get you going?

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Why can't you get my method to work? Lift the rear end with your knee, it will force the front end to go up. You use the leash just to prevent the dog from turning.

 

I was talking mostly about the down method..... I just can't get him to keep walking with his head behind me (nestled in my bottom) unless I use a lot of force which I'm afraid will make him tumble down the stairs since he locks his legs on the landing (and do I try to get him behind me before we leave the door, hoping he won't see the stairs at all.)

 

On the up method, I still need to place his feet on each step until he is almost to the top (front paw, front paw, back paw, back paw, nudge nudge, front paw etc.) Once we get part way up, he'll usually do the last two stairs in a leaping sort of motion. And then we start all over in the next section.

 

First round today went okay, but he was petrified (trembling) when we got outside and we needed to help him down the outside stairs which, from the first day, he has proven he already knows how to do without much difficulty .... and then he was reluctant to go for a walk. So, we are all struggling over here and just hoping that he will get over this hump before my back is too worn out.

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

 

 

Have you talked to your adoption group? Could be they have an experienced person who can come and give some pointers / help to get you going?

Thanks for the encouragement! I guess we have to have faith that it will work. This being our first dog, it is nerve wracking and we want to be good dog parents.

 

I did call the adoption group yesterday but played phone tag and she isn't there today. I would LOVE to have an experience person come over and give us some pointers, but I don't know if that is an option, though I will ask specifically. It does sound like a common problem.

[Batmom]

He'll get there. Really, he will. Hopefully before your back wears out -- I do know that feeling.

 

 

It took my new girl longer than I thought it would (because of her personality and agility) to learn to go up the stairs without help. I think it might be because her natural reaction was to go up them in as few leaps as possible, so the one-foot-at-a-time thing just did not make sense to her. One of my previous dogs had a similar issue about going down and was very fearful about it, too. They both got it so they could do it with no help at all, within @ 3 weeks; without back-breaking help in @ 1 week.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I will have people disagree with me here, so here it goes...

 

When you are taking him down the stairs, he WILL try to lock his legs and stop from going down the stairs. You cannot allow him to win (if you do, it will become harder and harder to get him over the edge). Your hound has to understand that he will comply with what you need him to do. Its not a matter of being mean or harmful to the hound, its a matter of for a few days your hound will learn that it has to follow your lead. Do I "drag" a hound down the stairs, no, but I do pull him over the edge of the stairs. I don't yank, tug or jerk. I excerpt a steady pulling motion to get the hound over the edge, once their front legs are over the edge, the hound WILL start to walk down the stairs. This is when you need to have the hound's head at your hip to support him as he walks down the stairs. A young hound a few months off the track has very developed neck muscles which I don't think will be harmed by walking down the stairs a few times. Once you do this a few times, your hound should trust you enough to stop balking at the top of the stairs.

 

My approach is a no-nonsense type of approach since I don't have the luxury of carrying hounds up or down stairs (my stairs are too narrow to do this). It may seem a bit harsh at first, but as I said, you do not tug, jerk or otherwise over-excerpt your pulling. You simply pull enough to get the hound moving. The hound will stop balking after a few days. I have had hounds that try to thrash around, scream, you name it. They sound like I am trying to rip their head off. Guess what, they all relent and after 2-3 days, stop pulling. In fact, you can tell when they have the "ah-ha" moment because when you lead them to the stairs, they start to pull you down the stairs.

 

Don't fret, it will work out, you just have to be consistent with your training. You cant break him, he's a lot tougher than he looks.

[Batmom]

Pulling dog over the edge would be an exception to my "no pressure on the collar" rule. Gotta get 'em started somehow. If I'm strong enough, I pick up the dog and set him/her down so all 4 feet are on the steps pointing down -- most dogs will start moving, if hesitantly, once they're over that hump. I'm not strong enough to do that anymore, with most greyhound-sized dogs.

[Feisty49]

I will have people disagree with me here, so here it goes...

 

When you are taking him down the stairs, he WILL try to lock his legs and stop from going down the stairs. You cannot allow him to win (if you do, it will become harder and harder to get him over the edge). Your hound has to understand that he will comply with what you need him to do. Its not a matter of being mean or harmful to the hound, its a matter of for a few days your hound will learn that it has to follow your lead. Do I "drag" a hound down the stairs, no, but I do pull him over the edge of the stairs. I don't yank, tug or jerk. I excerpt a steady pulling motion to get the hound over the edge, once their front legs are over the edge, the hound WILL start to walk down the stairs. This is when you need to have the hound's head at your hip to support him as he walks down the stairs. A young hound a few months off the track has very developed neck muscles which I don't think will be harmed by walking down the stairs a few times. Once you do this a few times, your hound should trust you enough to stop balking at the top of the stairs.

 

My approach is a no-nonsense type of approach since I don't have the luxury of carrying hounds up or down stairs (my stairs are too narrow to do this). It may seem a bit harsh at first, but as I said, you do not tug, jerk or otherwise over-excerpt your pulling. You simply pull enough to get the hound moving. The hound will stop balking after a few days. I have had hounds that try to thrash around, scream, you name it. They sound like I am trying to rip their head off. Guess what, they all relent and after 2-3 days, stop pulling. In fact, you can tell when they have the "ah-ha" moment because when you lead them to the stairs, they start to pull you down the stairs.

 

Don't fret, it will work out, you just have to be consistent with your training. You cant break him, he's a lot tougher than he looks.

 

 

Pretty much I agree with this. I taught Annie to go down by walking beside her, leash around my hand so it was out of the way, hand on her collar and gently pushing/pulling her, while at the same time, bringing one leg down to the next step, if necessary. Much like the way I got her to walk when she decided to plant herself when walking, to start her off, I'd give her shoulder a slight push with my knee. Once their feet are moving in some way, it's easier to continue on with the task, so do what you have to do to get his feet going: a push on a shoulder; a push from behind; a tug on the collar. Greyhounds are best at PLANTING themselves when they don't want to move, and their bodies will turn to concrete. Gotta break that planting however you can.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Feisty49

[Sambuca]

Where do you live? Maybe someone here is close.

 

I agree, just pull him to start him on the stairs. That's what I did.

[Guest chickenpotpie]

Have you tried other stairs? My girl will do outside stairs but won't do inside stairs. so in my case, its not about knowing how but straight fear. Her loneliness has to be stronger than her fear at some point (or not!)

[Jerilyn]

If all the pushing and pulling doesn’t work, here’s another suggestion.

Allow the dog to gain understanding and confidence on the stairs on some easy, non-threatening ones. Big, solid, wide, shallow ones can often be found on the entrance to public buildings like schools or churches or libraries.

I took Lila to a local college campus with lots of buildings with lots of different stairs. Once she learned how to work her legs on the shallow ones we tackled steeper ones. After about an hour of investigating the campus she was a stair-master. No trauma for me or her.

Just something to think about….

Good luck!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

If all the pushing and pulling doesn’t work, here’s another suggestion.

Allow the dog to gain understanding and confidence on the stairs on some easy, non-threatening ones. Big, solid, wide, shallow ones can often be found on the entrance to public buildings like schools or churches or libraries.

I took Lila to a local college campus with lots of buildings with lots of different stairs. Once she learned how to work her legs on the shallow ones we tackled steeper ones. After about an hour of investigating the campus she was a stair-master. No trauma for me or her.

Just something to think about….

Good luck!

 

 

Good suggestion. Definitely something to try if possible.

[Guest Prof_Bananas]

Where do you live? Maybe someone here is close.

 

I agree, just pull him to start him on the stairs. That's what I did.

 

I live in Somerville, Massachusetts (which is basically part of Boston). A friend is going to come over tomorrow with her greyhound who we hope can teach my greyhound some stair tricks! But it would be lovely if there are any other greyhound experts out there who would be willing to coach!

 

I can get him down, but he then absolutely freezes on ground level and won't walk. I pushed/nudged him this morning to get him going, but it didn't work for long. He is so stressed out after the stairs that I'm afraid I'm pushing him too hard. He has not yet pooped today and we've been out 3 times. Then, while inside, he is mostly just laying on his bed (though he did give me some licks before he zonked out.) He seemed more energetic and lively when we first brought him home (playing with a toy or just checking us out.) Now, when inside, he seems mostly to plop himself down and just hang out there. Is that normal? It is so hard to know if everything is okay.

[Guest psdirector]

I think it's normal for them to see their beds as their safety zone at first. When we got our boys in March, they would lay on their beds in the mornings and just watch us warily and wouldn't move without coaxing... a far cry from the toy throwing, kisses, smiles and general goofiness we get in the mornings now! We used leashes to help move them on the stairs at first. Even after Hutch figured out the stairs, he wouldn't go up or down without his leash attached (even though we weren't holding the leash any more). Now they both do the steps like champs, although Hutch will hesitate at the bottom if the hall lights upstairs and downstairs aren't on.