Update, Dogs Panic At The Vet, Pre-Dental

[Guest jaws4evr]

Hi all

 

I posted a month or two ago about my GH Nina's tendency to panic at the vet under many forms of handling, and my concerns about getting her sedated for her dental.

 

She went in for bloodwork last week, and I had discussed with my vet my concerns a while ago so we drew blood from her neck, with her laying down, instead of standing/sitting as she says they'd usually do it.

 

The laying down part was a bit tricky since she's not enormously driven to obey, but luckily gets bored when nothing happens so she layed down on her own. Sneaky!

 

We muzzled her with her kennel muzzle, and aside from some nervous lip licking, ultra tense body, and huge whale eye she didn't panic, didn't scream and didn't try to escape. The vet suggested the tech try to hold her still with a "less is more, like a cat" philosophy which Nina appreciated.

 

Her bloodwork came back perfect, so she went in for her dental thismorning.

 

They had me bring her super early, and put us in the side-exam room by ourselves for almost an hour while they got set up, and let Nina relax and lay down on a blanket. She even had a wee nap which was nice to see.

 

They again agreed to do the initial intravenous sedation while she was laying down (sneaky!), and aside from again shaking, tense muscles, pinchy mouth and whale eye, and losing a pound of fur, Nina accepted the handling very well. Once the initial sedation took hold she allowed herself to be moved and lifted without complaint.

 

I just got the call that she was stable under the anesthetic and is coming around well, however is a bit panicy upon awaking so they're keeping an eye on her.

 

But the moral of the story is, for any of you with spooky/shy dogs out there, if the dog is amenable to laying down (in submission) when afraid, then the lay-down approach for all things veterinary seems to be a winner! I can't even imagine how it would have gone if they attempted to sedate her standing on a table, or even with her standing on the floor.

 

Anyhow thanks to everyone for their advice about vets, approaches at restraining, sedation, and all those good things. Lots of teeth brushing and frequent fun-visits to the vet for us!

[OwnedBySummer]

Sounds like you have a winner of a vet clinic! Wonderful!

[JJNg]

Great update! I'm so glad your vet worked with you and Nina to make things go as smoothly as possible.

 

But the moral of the story is, for any of you with spooky/shy dogs out there, if the dog is amenable to laying down (in submission) when afraid, then the lay-down approach for all things veterinary seems to be a winner! I can't even imagine how it would have gone if they attempted to sedate her standing on a table, or even with her standing on the floor.

I think this is definitely an approach worth trying, but wanted to emphasize the part about "if the dog is amenable to laying down". Many nervous dogs are too scared to lay down in a strange place and will panic if attempts are made to physically lay them down. Or even if they eventually lay down on their own, many dogs will immediately jump up and move away if approached by someone they don't trust.

 

Just curious, were you involved during the blood draw or sedation injection while she was laying down? My 'ex-spooky' girl Willow is mostly 'normal' now, but the one situation where I don't trust her is if she's lying down and a man approaches her. Especially if he approaches too quickly, she will jump up and snap. I think she'd probably do better if I was sitting next to her and holding/rubbing her. Willow is fine if approached by men when she's standing - I think the difference is probably because she feels more vulnerable when lying down.

 

I think the more important point is having the whole team (vet, staff, owner) working cooperatively to find an approach that works for the individual dog, and it sounds like everyone did a great job for Nina!

Edited March 24, 2011 by jjng

[Hawthorn]

Glad it went well!

 

After your last thread, in which I posted that I had similar concerns about my own spooky girl, Sophie developed a skin growth and it was looking like it would have to be removed under GA. I talked to the vet about my concerns and asked if I could stay for sedation and catheter insertion and to my surprise she agreed. As it happens, the skin growth went away on its own so the surgery wasn't required, but it's nice to know that our vet is willing to listen to my concerns and work with me in this way.

 

Did Nina have a catheter inserted for fluids? If so, did you stay with her for that? I think this is the thing that worries me the most, as last time (different vets) they told me Sophie got "upset" when they put in the catheter and she came home with an inch-long cut in her leg .

[Guest jaws4evr]

Great update! I'm so glad your vet worked with you and Nina to make things go as smoothly as possible.

 

I think this is definitely an approach worth trying, but wanted to emphasize the part about "if the dog is amenable to laying down". Many nervous dogs are too scared to lay down in a strange place and will panic if attempts are made to physically lay them down. Or even if they eventually lay down on their own, many dogs will immediately jump up and move away if approached by someone they don't trust.

 

 

Yes, the key to the success of this plan is Nina likes laying down in general and was comfortable enough to do it voluntarily for us, both for blood testing and sedation! I got the idea when I'd brought her in as a fun-visit when my cat had to go in for checkup, and she layed down on the exam room floor beside me while the vet was examining the cat. There's no way I would have been able to force her to go down (I can't even do that at home ). For sedation they put down a folded quilt in the room and left us alone with it, which made it more enticing for Nina to lay down, so that might be something for people to consider.

 

If she refused to lay down then I don't know how well it would have went, her flight-instinct overrides everything when she's standing. She also really wants to be a submissive girl, so almost prefers to BE laying down if she's truly scared. I did lay right next to her and gently held her down when people came in the room, with gentle pressure and lots of belly rubs, but if she wanted to get up there's not a lot I could have done.

 

 

Just curious, were you involved during the blood draw or sedation injection while she was laying down?

 

 

Yes absolutely, I was sitting on the ground right next to her head gently holding her head still for blood testing, and between her front/back legs for the sedation (tech had to be by her head to hold her leg enough to get the vein to pop up?...?). She's much better with me touching her than anyone else, so it seemed to calm her to have me in direct contact. I'm not convinced she would have stayed laying down for anyone else. I also massaged her ears/head with enthusiasm while she was having her blood drawn. I was also ready to restrain her forcibly if need be for her own safety if she chose a moment to move that would have injured her, but I didn't have to thank the maker.

 

 

My 'ex-spooky' girl Willow is mostly 'normal' now, but the one situation where I don't trust her is if she's lying down and a man approaches her. Especially if he approaches too quickly, she will jump up and snap. I think she'd probably do better if I was sitting next to her and holding/rubbing her. Willow is fine if approached by men when she's standing - I think the difference is probably because she feels more vulnerable when lying down.

 

 

Makes sense to me, it's definitely dog specific... Nina's never shown any tendency to jump/snap, even under pretty severe stress so we're lucky. We had her muzzled for the blood tests (kennel muzzle), but the vet suggested having her un-muzzled for sedation to keep her as relaxed as we could, especially since the blood tests went so well. If she WAS a jumper snapper than I don't know if we would have been able to do this approach at all.

 

Plan B was to stick her with a sedative in her haunch muscle instead of using an IV (with me doing the restraint), and let the sedation take hold that way, if she panicked having that set in.

 

I also tried to block her vision a bit, not blinding her but blocking her peripheral vision so she couldn't see the people super close to her doing "weird stuff", I don't know if that helped or not?

 

 

I think the more important point is having the whole team (vet, staff, owner) working cooperatively to find an approach that works for the individual dog, and it sounds like everyone did a great job for Nina!

 

I'm super happy with how it went, I tried to channel my very best calm reliable energy for her sake. I don't even know at the end of the day what exactly part of what we all did made the difference, I'm just glad whatever it was, worked!!

[Guest jaws4evr]

Glad it went well!

 

Did Nina have a catheter inserted for fluids? If so, did you stay with her for that? I think this is the thing that worries me the most, as last time (different vets) they told me Sophie got "upset" when they put in the catheter and she came home with an inch-long cut in her leg .

 

Yes Nina did have a catheter inserted for everything, including the initial sedation. I was actually there right up until they turned on the gas, at which time being a member of the public I wasn't allowed to be there. They catheterized/sedated her in a dark quiet exam room, and I walked her to the back table myself. They asked if it was best if I lifted her to the table, but based on Nina's doped expression, I told them I was pretty sure it didn't matter anymore who was handling her, which was accurate!

 

Plan A) catheter insertion of sedation, prior to full anesthetization/intubation etc.

 

Plan B ) if she didn't recieve the catheter well, to keep her as un-adrenalized as possible (vet really wanted to keep her as calm as possible, being that GH are sensitive enough to the drugs without additional system stress), was to stick her with a sedative injection into her haunch muscle, and let the sedative take that way. She said it would have been slower, but still would have been effective.

 

Once she was sedated (catheter insertion received a small yelp as they tested to make sure it was in the right spot (pulled back on fluids?), but once the sedatives took, they were able to lift her onto the surgical table without me having to be the primary handler.

 

Apparently she had a bit of a spooky awakening, and attempted to run away (through the chain link run), so they had to have someone sitting in there with her, and they apparently gave her some additional sedation to mellow out her regaining consciousness, poor thing.

 

It's tough to know how they're going to react, but I've learned that WE really do know our dogs best (or, we should!), so working with a vet willing to address concerns and work WITH you for a solution that's best for them and everyone is a great thing.

 

I think vets deal with a lot of overprotective owners who coddle their pets, and just plain old don't trust anyone with their pets, so I think it's important to separate your genuine concerns from overprotective anxiety, and be as open as you can sharing ideas and information to show that you're not just being a spaz, you're actually knowledgeable and can be an asset to their experience with your pet.