Hmmm...wondering If Really Allergy?

[kolarik1]

Since Pop's breakouts were getting worse and the benadryl, thyroid meds, antibiotics, steroids, vit e & niacin weren't keeping them under control, my vet said I should have a dermatology consult with MSU. So I took Pop off of everything except his thyroid meds per the instructions from MSU and he's scheduled to go in this coming Wednesday. 2 weeks before the visit you are supposed to have your pup on Purina Dog Chow and that's it for food...so he's been getting that (& loving it, he thinks he hit the jackpot).

 

I have fed Diamond Naturals for over a year, TOTW & Eagle Pack Holistic before that and nothing seemed to stop his breakouts. He did get milk bones, but there were periods where the milk bones were taken away in favor of 'holistic' treats and his fruits were taken away.

 

Now here's the kicker...the 2 weeks before the food switch he started breaking out so bad that he could hardly walk (his face, paws & privates are always affected), so I took him right out in front of my building to potty & then took Zelda for a walk...he was literally falling down on snow/ice because he didn't want to put weight on his paws. Well, when the switch occurred, I now use a few pieces of kibble as a reward for going in his crate rather than any other treat and his face actually looks like it is drying up, he is walking better...enough to the point where he is now going on walks again with us. He is not completely healed as he would need steroids/antibiotics to completely heal up, but he looks better now then he did a week ago

 

Has anyone else with allergy dogs ever noticed this? Where the dog actually got better on Purina Dog Chow? Here I've been trying to feed him holistic foods, granted he was getting milk bones but not all the time. If this is what it takes to keep his allergies under control, then I'm all for it (I can get a 50lb bag of Purina Dog Chow at Sams for $22). I know the Dog Chow isn't really formulated for greys, or what is usually recommended for greys, but if it works for him then I'm all for it.

 

I'll still keep the vet visit, I just don't know if they will even suggest the allergy testing now? I have it scheduled at work so that I can take him in and then go pick him up in the afternoon if they do want to do allergy testing. Heck, Pop even wants to play more and is begging for me to play with him when I get home...just like when he feels good.

 

What does GT think?

Edited March 12, 2011 by kolarik1

[Guest krystolla]

I don't have any experience with dog allergies, but I do with cat allergies. With our Maine Coon girl, her allergies were environmental not food related so the allergy test really made a difference. Unfortunately it wasn't anything we could remove from the environment (she was allergic to grass, pollen, trees, dust . . . ) but weekly allergy shots made a HUGE difference.

 

From my experience, I'd say do the allergy test -- it might not be a food allergy, it might be something else.

[kolarik1]

I don't have any experience with dog allergies, but I do with cat allergies. With our Maine Coon girl, her allergies were environmental not food related so the allergy test really made a difference. Unfortunately it wasn't anything we could remove from the environment (she was allergic to grass, pollen, trees, dust . . . ) but weekly allergy shots made a HUGE difference.

 

From my experience, I'd say do the allergy test -- it might not be a food allergy, it might be something else.

 

I still want to do the allergy testing, I am just hoping the vet will want to as well...heck, they probably will just to get the $$ It amazes me that they'll have a student check Pop over first, yet they charge you for the student to look at the dog...um, the students pay to go to school there & there's other types of funding, so why charge me for that? It's not a lot, not nearly as much as the established dermatology vet who will check him over after the student speaks to him/her, but still...

 

Pop will be at MSU bright and early...8 am on the 16th! You know, for living only a couple miles from my alma mater, I haven't been on campus in a few months...I'll need to take the pups there for a walk once Pop's paws are better.

[Chicocat]

I wonder if the Purina Dog Chow doesn't have all of the added Antioxidants that are found in most foods today, including Diamond. Cutie has food allergies and is on a home cooked diet now -- she was also on Diamond for years. My dermatology vet has mentioned that her allergy might have been from the antioxidants. Instead of allergy testing, he chose to put her on a test diet that had no ingredients that could cause allergies and she was showing much improvement after 2 weeks. That's when she went on the home cooked.

 

Will be interested in hearing about your visit.

[kolarik1]

I wonder if the Purina Dog Chow doesn't have all of the added Antioxidants that are found in most foods today, including Diamond. Cutie has food allergies and is on a home cooked diet now -- she was also on Diamond for years. My dermatology vet has mentioned that her allergy might have been from the antioxidants. Instead of allergy testing, he chose to put her on a test diet that had no ingredients that could cause allergies and she was showing much improvement after 2 weeks. That's when she went on the home cooked.

 

Will be interested in hearing about your visit.

 

Good to know...out of curioustiy, what home cooked diet are you using? I have tried that in the past as well and it was a lot of work to cook for just Pop, so when Zelda was adopted I went back to kibble...but if home cooked is best for him, then that's what I would do.

[kolarik1]

Here's the weird thing...before Pop was adopted he was in foster care for I believe 4 months, his foster mom used Eagle Pack Holistic and no problems...when we got him, my ex and I had switched him to Member's Mark Exceed Lamb & Rice (which he hated) and within that first month he had an ear infection...so we tried putting him back on Eagle Pack but the problems continued...now he was fostered in Northern Ohio (ran in West Virginia @ Tri-State) and now is in southern Michigan...so I don't know how Northern Ohio & southern Michigan could be all that different when he had no symptoms in Ohio.

 

He has continued to have more and more breakouts since that first ear infection...so now that he is on just Purina Dog Chow & absolutely nothing else is when he seems to be calming down in the breakouts...

 

Trust me, Pop would LOVE if I cooked for him again...he is a HUGE fruit fan and loves some veggies too! And he loves fresh venison (as in just ground venison burger...no, he's not spoiled )

 

ETA, the reason they suggested dermatology vet this time is he has had biopsies before and they come back 'severe allergic dermatitis'...however, the way his symptoms present the vets weren't 100% that he really had allergies...last fall they were wondering if maybe he had discoid lupus or some other autoimmune disease (I refuse to have his toe amputated to check for that as they said it may still not show in the toe)...and that's why they put him on Vit E/niacin, but that didn't even stop the breakouts...his symptoms present more as autoimmune than allergy in the vets opinions (more than one has said that). Plus when I pushed for a full thyroid panel (which former vet didn't want to do), his blood was tested @ MSU and he was found to have low thyroid and when he first was put on the meds it seemed to help with the breakouts some...

Edited March 12, 2011 by kolarik1

[Batmom]

You never know re allergy. One of my dogs was allergic to fish and fish oil. Try finding a food without that! (There are a few, or rather there were at that time.) Could be the school has had good experience with the Dog Chow thing -- may help them rule out the common allergies at least.

 

Good luck!

[Guest june]

Purina Dog Chow! Who'd a thunk? Good luck with the testing. I hope you find the cause.

june

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

I have an allergy dog (cocker spaniel) and have a bit of experience with food allergy issues. My boy was vomiting at least 3 days a week and had TERRIBLE ear infections. Now he's doing great!

 

Just FYI- the allergy testing isn't very useful for food allergies... the dermatologists at OSU usually start with a food trial. They use a prescription allergy diet (Royal Canin Venison & Potato, or IAMS K/O usually) and they give you very strict instructions on what kind of treats are allowed. Basically they can have veggies and fruits, but NO grains or proteins except for the food. That can't have bones, rawhides, or even nylabones because they have meat flavor added.

 

They usually do the food trial for 4-8 weeks plus antibiotics if he has a skin infection, sometimes longer in severe cases like yours. If it all heals up, you know it's SOMETHING he's been eating. If it doesn't get better and stay better, then you know it's environmental. If it's environmental then they do the allergy testing.

 

The Dog Chow thing really confuses me... It has just about every common allergen possible (corn, wheat, artificial colors) in it PLUS it has those non-specific ingredients like "animal fat" and "meat meal" that could change sources in every bag! There's no way of knowing what is actually in it, so how are you supposed to narrow down the allergy?

 

P.S. I would check his thyroid test results against what Dr. Couto recommends. Most vets are still looking at the wrong numbers for greyhounds and putting them on thyroid supplements when they aren't needed!

Edited March 12, 2011 by d0ggiem0mma

[Chicocat]

Good to know...out of curioustiy, what home cooked diet are you using? I have tried that in the past as well and it was a lot of work to cook for just Pop, so when Zelda was adopted I went back to kibble...but if home cooked is best for him, then that's what I would do.

 

The test diet was high carb - sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower and green beans. We added hamburger after the 2 week test, but the carbs gave her diarreah.

 

Now she gets Hamburger, rice, spinach and black beans. She has done well with this diet - the diarreah stopped immediately when she got the spinach. Her poops have a wonderful green hue. It has controlled about 90% of her allergy.

 

It IS a lot of work - and getting expensive. I'd give anything to find a commercial food that works, but haven't been successful.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Chicocat

[kolarik1]

Good to know...out of curioustiy, what home cooked diet are you using? I have tried that in the past as well and it was a lot of work to cook for just Pop, so when Zelda was adopted I went back to kibble...but if home cooked is best for him, then that's what I would do.

 

The test diet was high carb - sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower and green beans. We added hamburger after the 2 week test, but the carbs gave her diarreah.

 

Now she gets Hamburger, rice, spinach and black beans. She has done well with this diet - the diarreah stopped immediately when she got the spinach. Her poops have a wonderful green hue. It has controlled about 90% of her allergy.

 

It IS a lot of work - and getting expensive. I'd give anything to find a commercial food that works, but haven't been successful.

 

I'm not going to show Pop your response or he would drool all over my computer! When I cooked for him, it was an allergy diet out of Dr. Pitcairn's book and Pop thought he was in heaven then...but it was a lot of work to cook for him and I couldn't imagine doing it for 2...so we'll see what the vets (student & teaching vet) have to say when they see him on Wednesday.

 

I really am confused that he is actually doing better on the Purina Dog Chow because like Doggiemomma said, it has all the things in it that would make him worse! Not to mention the 'by-product' info so you don't really know what is in there...but hey, if it works, then it works.

 

I took him for his longest walk yet tonight in the last week and he barely limped...his paws are inflamed, but not like they were...so we'll see what antibiotics/steroid they want to put him on to clear up the infection (if any).

 

And right now Pop has decided to roach...love my boy...he's not a big roacher.

Edited March 12, 2011 by kolarik1

[Batmom]

I really am confused that he is actually doing better on the Purina Dog Chow because like Doggiemomma said, it has all the things in it that would make him worse!

 

Not necessarily . IIRC it doesn't have fish/fish oil. My allergic dog would have done just fine on it ... and would not have been fine on almost every other "decent" or "better" food on the market. It really does depend on what they're allergic to.

[kolarik1]

I really am confused that he is actually doing better on the Purina Dog Chow because like Doggiemomma said, it has all the things in it that would make him worse!

 

Not necessarily . IIRC it doesn't have fish/fish oil. My allergic dog would have done just fine on it ... and would not have been fine on almost every other "decent" or "better" food on the market. It really does depend on what they're allergic to.

 

That's interesting about the fish/fish oil...I used to give fish oil capsules up until about a year ago...when I ran out of my current bottle I picked more up at Sams and the pups wouldn't eat them, even though they were the same thing...so I gave them to one of my fosters when he was here, but now I may just pitch them as mine will not eat them.

 

I looked at the ingredient list for both Purina Dog Chow and Diamond Naturals...dog chow doesn't have fish in it, whereas Diamond Naturals does...

 

GT may have just figured out what Pop is allergic to! I'll run it past the vet on Wednesday

[Batmom]

Don't get too excited -- we pinpointed our allergy via a lucky accident. So for your pup, could be the fish oil, could be any one of a number of additives or nutrients ... or more than one (eek).

 

The dog foods on the market tend to fall into broad "perceived quality" (and price) tiers. Within those tiers, the ingredients in the foods are remarkably similar.

[kolarik1]

Don't get too excited -- we pinpointed our allergy via a lucky accident. So for your pup, could be the fish oil, could be any one of a number of additives or nutrients ... or more than one (eek).

 

The dog foods on the market tend to fall into broad "perceived quality" (and price) tiers. Within those tiers, the ingredients in the foods are remarkably similar.

 

That's what I've noticed. I was really hoping the holistic type foods would have helped him but they never seemed to...and I just looked at all of their ingredients...they all have some type of fish and some have dried beet pulp (not saying he is allergic to it, but you never know)

[Chicocat]

Another thing to consider is that so many dog foods (varieties and brands) are manufactured at a single plant there is always a chance of cross-contamination of whatever causes your dogs allergy. My derm. vet said that just makes it more difficult to find a commercial food that works.