More Behavior Questions

[Guest Adrianne]

Ollie has been with us through three greyhounds now, and the relationship with each has naturally been different. Wilbur was a quiet leader, but the leader he was. Ollie loved him and loved snuggling with him, but she knew the boundaries. She wasn't all over him, she never tried to steal treats, food, or stuffies from him, she didn't try to give him kisses. She just respected his space. Fast forward to Larry, and she was obviously the boss. She loved him and loved on him and stole stuffies & bones from him. And that was fine with Larry; he let her do whatever she wanted. Fast forward to Chevy, and the waters get muddy a bit.

 

Ollie is constantly trying to give Larry kisses right on the mouth and nose. He's jumped on her a couple times for that, and we try to stop it now anytime we see it. But still she tries any chance she gets. She's still bad about wanting his stuffie and will inch as close as we allow to watch him. No matter how many times we move her back to the other side of the room with her own stuffie, she'll try to sneak back to him. To be fair, sometimes Chevy will hear Ollie squeek her stuffie and will run over to her, but we never let him actually get to her.

 

They snuggle together quite a bit, but sometimes Chevy will plop down on Ollie when she's napping. He did this last night, and honestly, he sat on her like a mother hen on an egg. He was watching me in the kitchen, so I don't know if he just didn't see her or if it was intentional and is his way of asserting dominance. Ollie doesn't get mad when she gets sat on; she just moves out from under him.

 

When Chevy gets frisky and is running in the house trying to get her to play, she gets a mad tone in her voice. I've seen her wrestle, wrestle, wrestle with my son's dog who is a pit bull mix, and I don't hear this tone then. If I sit in the floor and love on Chevy, no matter where she is, Ollie is determined to get to Chevy and kiss his face. Even if she's in the recliner with Seth getting lots of attention from him, she will not be satisfied until she jumps down and gets in the floor with me and Chevy. If she does manage to lick Chevy in the face and I correct her, she immediately runs over to the dog bed and tries to shred a pillow or a blanket.

 

I understand in a pack there is always an alpha dog. It was obviously Wilbur when he was here, and it was obviously Ollie when Larry was here. I'm not so sure who it is now, and I can't just let them settle everything because of their size difference. If I were to let Ollie lick Chevy in the face until he got sick of it and jumped on her, she could get seriously hurt. Same thing with letting her go over and try to steal a stuffie from him. He's not going to put up with it, but, unlike with Wilbur, she never seems deterred.

 

I think we've done pretty good in bringing these two together. The house is calm, and I can't remember the last time they had an argument----yes, I can. It was over a piece of plastic wrap in the living room floor, and this was the night Ollie opened her Secret Santa box. They snuggle together all the time, they walk together every day, if Chevy blocks the dog door Ollie will push through past him without any hesitation or fear. They seem to get along, although they'll never be best buds.

 

So, I guess I'm wondering if everything is as alright as I think it is. Or should some of these behaviors be raising red flags? Is Ollie frustrated? By sitting on Ollie, is Chevy telling her is dominant over her? And what is Ollie saying by constantly wanting to kiss Chevy in the mouth?

[carronstar]

No real answers as Aquitaine doesn't live with another dog. I have, however, always been told that licking the mouth/teeth and nose kissing is a sign of submission by the dog that does it. I know that there is a Pharoah Hound/Pit Bull mix who does this with Aquitaine and A will take it for a while and then just backs away. To be fair, Avedon (the mix) does much the same thing to me as she met me as a teeny puppy and seems to have really over-bonded to me. I keep promising that the moment that doggies and girls can marry that I will run away with her.

 

I hate to laugh at Ollie being sat on but it is a very funny visual.

 

Does Chevy do the happy snappy thing like his sister Aquitaine? I've taken to calling her my baby alligator!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

If you constantly stop them from setting thier own boundaries, don't you think you are making things worse? You assume that they will have a huge fight. Maybe they will just snarl and air snap and then be done? Personally I would allow things to go a bit further than you do. If one steals a toy from the other, and nothing happens, well then that is the way it is. There is no "fair" in a dogs world. If one wants the bed and sits down on the other, and nothing happens, then so be it. Believe me, if they had issues, you would know it. I am not the "fair" police in my house with my pack. I have a boy Bart who is the quiet leader of the dogs (me being the overseer), then there is Jesse who actually is the newest member of the pack (one month shy of a year in my house, but the oldest hound at 8) she falls just below Bart, then Olive. Olive is at the bottom of the pecking order, even below my current foster. Do I feel bad for her, yes, do I try to make others move and not steal her toys when they do, NOPE. I play with her separately at times, and take her to special things alone so she and I have bonding time, but she fits into the pack exactly where she belongs. As far as the "rude" behavior of kissing and such, when one hound has enough, the other will know. Although I would consider the kissing a submissive calming signal, not really rude in all acutality.

 

Chad

Edited January 26, 2011 by Greyt_dog_lover

[TheFullHouse]

I think the problem is you may be stepping in too much and not letting them establish their own boundaries. You're describing Jilly Bean's relationship with every dog in this house. I learned early on to let them settle their own differences, even though there is a difference in size. Trust me, I was always right there just in case it escalated beyond the growling/snapping phase. Jilly Bean is also one who loves to smell the hounds in the face. Every hound in this house now puts up with it except Bullitt and he is the one to tell Jilly off every time. At first I was really hesitant about those two but they have established their limits. If Jilly Bean infringes upon Bullitt too much he lets her know and she has learned to back down. If I see her go at him, I will step in but they have never gone beyond the growling/snapping stage.

 

Something tells me that if Chevy loses his temper with Ollie and lets her know, Ollie will probably back away. She just doesn't seem like the type to go back at him so you may just have to let him tell her like it is to get her to stop.

[Guest Adrianne]

Sigh......I know in my heart that you're right about them setting their boundaries, but it's a scary thing to watch Chevy jump on Ollie.

 

 

ETA: I don't know why I'm having trouble just allowing this with the two of them. I let it happen with Wilbur & Ollie, and she was much smaller then. I did it with Macy & Ollie, and they were like a couple lions in the wild going at it once or twice. I did it with Larry & Ollie; even though no snapping was ever involved, it made me sad to see Larry get toys & bones stolen from him. I don't know why it's different this time. I guess I know Chevy will come out on top; he's too assertive & big not to be the "winner." Maybe I just hate to see Ollie fall from top dog status. She worked so long & hard to get there.....it's like the end of an era. Well, that's my hang-up, not theirs.

 

 

Oh, and yes, absolutely, Chevy is an air snapper. It's very funny.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Adrianne

[TheFullHouse]

Sigh......I know in my heart that you're right about them setting their boundaries, but it's a scary thing to watch Chevy jump on Ollie.

 

Trust me, I know how scary it is. Jilly Bean is not as big as she looks in her pictures. She's a tiny little thing and the sight of her having an argument with a nearly 100lb. greyhound scared the poop out of me at first. None of mine have actually jumped Jilly Bean. The only truly bad confrontation between Jilly Bean and one of our other hounds was with Valentino when he first came home. She ran between my legs out the door when I had let Valentino outside by himself (no muzzle). He chased her down and picked her up by the back of her neck. I screamed for him to "drop it" and he did and she was so mad she reached up and bit him on the nose. He has never messed with her again. He walks circles around her.

 

I would definitely correct Chevy if he tries to jump on her. I think they will have to set their boundaries if you're ever going to be able to relax. You might try a squirt bottle if you see Chevy take off after her to jump on her. It would be a good way to teach him that that particular behavior will not be tolerated.

[BatterseaBrindl]

How long have you had Chevy?

 

We've had multiple dogs for a number of years and it always takes a few months for the 'new pack' to get settled into the new positions.

Ollie is probably confused - of course - and trying to figure out if she is still in charge. Which she probably will be.

And if she's not in charge, then she needs to see just how far can she go.

Chevey is also trying to figure out his place. Sounds like he doesn't really want to be top dog...if he wanted that posiiton, he would really let Ollie know.

 

In my experience, the female who has been in charge will keep that position, but it is not not always obvious right away.

 

Does your son's dog live in the same house?

How do he & Chevy get along?

 

I would stop any outright agression, but otherwise leave it up to them to sort it all out.

[RobinM]

I agree with letting them sort it out with you close by and as far as Chevy plopping down on Ollie... Teddy does that to ME in MY Bed! I will be laying there and he just wants to be close, not realizing that half of me is going to wind up under him when he does it. You hear him go UMPF when he plops down and I go UGGGGGG as he throws his entire body on me.

[Guest Adrianne]

How long have you had Chevy?

 

We've had multiple dogs for a number of years and it always takes a few months for the 'new pack' to get settled into the new positions.

Ollie is probably confused - of course - and trying to figure out if she is still in charge. Which she probably will be.

And if she's not in charge, then she needs to see just how far can she go.

Chevey is also trying to figure out his place. Sounds like he doesn't really want to be top dog...if he wanted that posiiton, he would really let Ollie know.

 

In my experience, the female who has been in charge will keep that position, but it is not not always obvious right away.

 

Does your son's dog live in the same house?

How do he & Chevy get along?

 

I would stop any outright agression, but otherwise leave it up to them to sort it all out.

 

 

You make some good points. Chevy has only been here a couple months, and I know he could really let her have it if he wanted to.

 

My son's dog doesn't live here; Peanut just comes and visits once in a while. She's only been here once since Chevy's arrival, and it was a stressful few hours. She immediately tried to get Chevy to wrestle and tried jumping on his back a couple times. He ran with her at first, but she's still a very active young dog, and she got on his nerves pretty quickly.

[Guest Adrianne]

This is Ollie wrestling with Peanut, my son's dog.

 

 

She's not as big as a greyhound, but she's considerably bigger than Ollie. They play and play and play and wrestle and wrestle some more. Ollie is always exhausted when Peanut leaves. It was interesting though, that when Peanut last visited and met Chevy, Ollie didn't try to play with her at all. Peanut was mostly interested in Chevy, and Ollie seemed a bit feaful to get between the two of them.

 

 

Oh, and that's Larry's foot at the bottom of the photo. Interesting enough, Peanut never tried to play with him or bother him at all.

[Guest Giselle]

FYI: Licking lips/mouth/kisses are a juvenile puppy behavior. It's not "dominating". It's just an annoying puppy behavior that juvenile dogs sometimes continue to do to elder dogs. If anything, it's a motion of deference. Annoying, but deferring. So.. I wouldn't correct the face licking. In fact, it's often just a juvenile's way of saying, "HEY, I really really want to play with you". Why correct it? It's not "dominating" (try not to use that word when describing dog behavior and you'll see how much more clearly you can understand behavior). It just sounds like you've got an energetic juvenile dog and the others don't care for it, so they correct it the way they know how to. They back off, they move away, they give a low "knock-it-off" growl, they give an air snap. Mostly, it's non-physical and revolves around moving away. Very efficient form of punishment: If you don't play nice, I'm leaving. Let them sort it out. But if Ollie gets too annoying, call her over and give her some other form of entertainment. Fetch is nice.