Update On Lola

[Guest stufts]

So we've had Lola for 2 months now and her separation anxiety is not going away...she poops in the house EVERY time we leave her alone...in the crate, free, in the mudroom...every possible situation. Again, she's 7 years old and we are her 2nd home...she was apparently abandoned in her first home...hence, bad separation anxiety.

 

Nothing is helping and my husband is really beginning to lose it....the house smells all the time now

 

I really, really love her but I honestly don't know what else to do...I'm starting to think it's not going to work out and I'm sad to even think it...but I have two kids and a husband in the house as well....pretty soon, I'm going to be the only one rooting for her and trying to make it work!

 

I feel like I'm in over my head now and I'm at a loss...what would you do???

 

Sorry to sound so negative...just a bad day....I was at a conference today so my husband had Lola. He said in the morning he went out in the yard for 5 minutes to water the garden and she went upstairs into our daughter's room and pooped.

 

Then he took her to work and she peed there????...sigh....

 

Thanks,

Sandy

[rallyp]

Hi Sandy,

 

I went and looked for your other thread to see what kind of advice you got and you did get good advice, but I was surprised that you didn't get more advice about applying very structured alone training. I did see someone recommended the McConnell book which is good. I think you did mention something about alone training... how much have you done? In these more difficult cases, you really need to the alone training in extremely small and deliberate steps. This is very repetitive, can take a long time, and will involve some set backs. The key is to slowly increase your time away, but not so much that Lola passes that point of getting overly stressed. When she does (and she will), you have to take two steps backwards and work back up to where you were before you can move on. This can be as small as going away for a minute or two at a time, over and over, until she's comfortable, and then going away for 5 minutes, repeating and repeating, and then increasing. You might hit 10 minutes, and then she poops again, and at that point you need to take a step back and only leave for 7 minutes, or 5, or whatever.

 

When you leave, do you know if she really gets stressed out (panting, pacing, barking...)? If she's really struggling like that, you may need to get her on some medication to help calm her down and use this in addition to the alone training.

 

This can be really challenging and it'll seem like you're not making any progress. But it usually works. Good luck, I really feel for you and understand how frustrating this can be.

[Batmom]

How often is she taken outside, and what business does she do when she is there?

 

Assume she's had a medical checkup including fecal?

 

How much exercise does she get?

 

What food is she being fed, when and how much?

[arandomchic]

Like Batmom is asking, If you provide a general schedule and a lot of details, you'll get some awesome advice Also, have you talked to the group you adopted her from?

 

We also got Molly as a bounce, and she had some separation anxiety related to that. We followed the alone training schedule in the Patricia McConnell book, and we've gotten to the point where we can leave her for 3-4 hours pretty easily now without any problems (granted her SA wasn't horrible). Some steps we were able to move quickly past, others we had to take more time on. But if you follow the plan (really follow it)...it seems to work.

 

Have patience. Be consistent. And good luck!

[Guest cheltzey]

Slight hijack: for those of you that follow this plan, how do you get anything done? I mean, sometime you have to buy groceries, and that can't be done in 3 minutes. We've got SA issues as well, and I'm really struggling with the structured alone training.

 

/hijack

 

Also, I have to say, Sandy, that I really hope you can figure something out. Poor stressed out doggie!

[jenn8]

Cheltzey, you have to send hubby to the grocery store.

 

Jenn

[rallyp]

Slight hijack: for those of you that follow this plan, how do you get anything done? I mean, sometime you have to buy groceries, and that can't be done in 3 minutes. We've got SA issues as well, and I'm really struggling with the structured alone training.

 

/hijack

Yeah, that can be tough. I've been lucky, I've only had to deal with relatively mild cases of it myself (basically with a couple of different foster dogs). What's happens with me is that I'm able to target a weekend plus a day or two off of work, so four days basically, to focus strictly on alone training. As I noted, I've been lucky and by the 3rd day, we've made enough progress that I could, if needed, be away for a long chunk of time (> 1 hour). I've also found that the improvement isn't really linear, I might be able to only be away for a few minutes at a time for a long time, and then all of a sudden, we're able to increase to 20-30 minutes, then we're stuck around there for awhile, and then we suddenly can get to an hour or more. I've also found that once I get to an hour or so, we usually can quickly get to a whole work day.

[Batmom]

Slight hijack: for those of you that follow this plan, how do you get anything done? I mean, sometime you have to buy groceries, and that can't be done in 3 minutes. We've got SA issues as well, and I'm really struggling with the structured alone training.

 

Work on it when you can and keep the dog safe when you can't. Your training times will eventually take over the other times.

[Guest stufts]

thanks everyone....i have a call in to the woman who runs the rescue where i got lola..i think my stress about the situation is obviously not helping lola

 

as for specifics: i feed her Taste of the Wild, about 1 3/4 cups two times a day, i take her out several times a day--and she does pee and poop outside always--that's not the problem, she gets moderate exercise, my walking loop is almost 4 miles and i take her several times a week.

 

she is shy, sweet and loving, and i love her dearly! part of me feels guilty and wonders if it's something i'm doing wrong?? i just want her to feel secure and not scared...

 

keep you posted...thanks a lot!

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

I didn't read your other thread, but have you thought about trying an anti-depressant? It sounds like you are in dire straights here! Tempe has been on clomipramine for about 5 months with good results. The long term plan for her is to keep her on it for at least a year, then wean her off and see how it goes. The anti-depressant is used in her case to stop the cycle of SA behavior. And it has. She would go through two week cycles, two good, two bad. Any type of change would set her off. She has bent the bars in her crate, had explosive big D in her crate, panic attacks in her crate. When left uncrated she chewed all the moulding around my doorway where the gate was leaned up against the wall. If I did not gate her, she would poop and pee all over the house. Now she is left muzzled (she likes remotes and other hard plastic items) and ungated in the house with no problems. She can see out the window, which helps a lot. And in the last 5 months she has only had one set, of a bad couple of days. Using the anti-depressant in your case might help to go along with the alone training. I've also heard that using melatonin is good for SA dogs. I don't use both right now on her, I'm just using the clomipramine since it is working. Good Luck!

 

ETA: you're not doing something wrong! She just needs more time than others to adjust.

Edited May 20, 2010 by 4dogscrazy

[Batmom]

How is her weight? Depending on which Taste of the Wild you're feeding, 1 3/4 cups x 2 = 3.5 cups per day might be a good bit more food than she needs. One of my 70-lb dogs here normally gets only @ 2.5 cups of the High Prairie formula per day unless he's doing a LOT of running.

[Guest barkdogs]

I would second the antidepressant thing. Also you could try melatonin or kava kava and valarian root.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

How is her weight? Depending on which Taste of the Wild you're feeding, 1 3/4 cups x 2 = 3.5 cups per day might be a good bit more food than she needs. One of my 70-lb dogs here normally gets only @ 2.5 cups of the High Prairie formula per day unless he's doing a LOT of running.

 

I thought that too, but forgot to put it in my post. Unless she is quite active, I would cut down on the the food. If she needs weight put on, seach for higher calorie foods in smaller amounts. Over feeding kibble can cause tons of pooping. BTDT. I recently met a small but very active boy named Bentley. He ate more than my "big" dogs, but was tiny. However, after spending the morning with him, I understood. He is one of those greys that is always on the move, hopping around and I could tell his mom walked him a lot. Mine are much less active, as am I! My 75 pound boy gets 4 cups a day to TOTW. Same for the skinny 70 pound girl. Tempe is around 65 pounds and only gets 3 cups a day, and I just cut her back this morning to 2 and 1/2. She is starting to look thick. I also share one small can of food between all 4 dogs per meal, which is twice a day. The canned food is high calorie to put weight on my skinny girl, and she gets most of it. I also use it to hide Tempe's pills, that's how I get her to take them without any troubles.

[PrairieProf]

How is her weight? Depending on which Taste of the Wild you're feeding, 1 3/4 cups x 2 = 3.5 cups per day might be a good bit more food than she needs. One of my 70-lb dogs here normally gets only @ 2.5 cups of the High Prairie formula per day unless he's doing a LOT of running.

 

I thought that too, but forgot to put it in my post. Unless she is quite active, I would cut down on the the food. If she needs weight put on, seach for higher calorie foods in smaller amounts. Over feeding kibble can cause tons of pooping. BTDT. I recently met a small but very active boy named Bentley. He ate more than my "big" dogs, but was tiny. However, after spending the morning with him, I understood. He is one of those greys that is always on the move, hopping around and I could tell his mom walked him a lot. Mine are much less active, as am I! My 75 pound boy gets 4 cups a day to TOTW. Same for the skinny 70 pound girl. Tempe is around 65 pounds and only gets 3 cups a day, and I just cut her back this morning to 2 and 1/2. She is starting to look thick. I also share one small can of food between all 4 dogs per meal, which is twice a day. The canned food is high calorie to put weight on my skinny girl, and she gets most of it. I also use it to hide Tempe's pills, that's how I get her to take them without any troubles.

 

Another here noting the food issue (though of course that isn't causing her anxiety!). My 59-pound girl, who is pretty active, gets 2 and 2/3 cups of TOTW (Pacific Stream) per day.

Edited May 20, 2010 by PrairieProf

[Guest MyCody]

We had this problem with JJ for four months, urinating and pooping in the house all the time and we are home all the time. We had to watch her every second and still would not catch her before she started to "go". I could have started my own carpet steaming business I got so good at it. We kept after her and one day she suddenly got the idea that she should go out into the turn out area, it was like a light bulb went off. She also had to be dragged out of the bedroom to go out. She is a major spook but coming around.

 

I know this isn't helping you, just wanted you to know they eventually get it but my DH was with me 100% on getting her house broken, sorry your family is upset by it but can understand, it is VERY frustrating.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Terry

[Guest happygrey]

thanks everyone....i have a call in to the woman who runs the rescue where i got lola..i think my stress about the situation is obviously not helping lola

 

as for specifics: i feed her Taste of the Wild, about 1 3/4 cups two times a day, i take her out several times a day--and she does pee and poop outside always--that's not the problem, she gets moderate exercise, my walking loop is almost 4 miles and i take her several times a week.

 

she is shy, sweet and loving, and i love her dearly! part of me feels guilty and wonders if it's something i'm doing wrong?? i just want her to feel secure and not scared...

 

keep you posted...thanks a lot!

 

Do you always take her out for one of her walks before you leave? I think it's really essential to make sure she's "empty" before heading out. I'd suggest a walk (at least 20 mins) right before leaving her.

 

My boys typically need to go out before and after eating, and before and after I leave them.

 

I always leave them with a radio playing classical music, and leave Bentley with a stuffed Kong or some sort of chewy.

 

Wishing you tons of luck and hope that your group leader has some good advice.

[Guest stufts]

Yes I always take her out before I leave, of course! And she goes!!

 

I leave either the TV or radio on (I've tried both) leave treats or a kong with peanut butter, and a shirt of mine to keep my smell with her...

 

I've done it all

 

Today we left for only a couple of hours...I left her in the crate with the above....when I got home I went upstairs looked at her and she threw up in the crate immediately...she had pooped, ate it, then threw it up when I got there...she's done this a handful of times...it's so gross and sad...makes me feel so badly

 

We have a vet appt. on Wed. and I'm going to ask about medication for her. But does anxiety med. really help this issue??

 

I'm so stressed out now about leaving at all...but I can't NOT ever leave...I have a family and house to run!

 

I even talked to an animal communicator on Saturday (Jackie Weaver...at the recommendation I saw on this site)...I thought maybe some reassurance with help Lola..not yet though..

 

my poor girl

[Batmom]

Check her weight. That really is a lot of food. How many times does she poop every day?

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

 

We have a vet appt. on Wed. and I'm going to ask about medication for her. But does anxiety med. really help this issue??

 

 

 

Yes. And it will calm her over time so that you can begin alone training. The pills are fairly cheap, 30.00 or so for a 100, and they have no side effects, that I know of or that I have seen. Good luck and keep us updated!

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Where is the crate? You say you "went upstairs". Is the crate in an open area of the house where the family spends most of the time, or is the crate somewhere isolated? The placement of the crate may be affecting the situation. Realize that this is something that is ingrained in your hound and it will take more than a few days to make headway with. The alone training that is described in "greyhounds for dummies" should be something that you should try, and keep at it for weeks, not days. As suggested this may be a case for medication along with training so that the training can be more effective.

 

Chad

[Guest stufts]

Yes, the crate is upstairs in my bedroom. The president of the rescue told me specifically to put it there, so that Lola can sleep in it, in the same room as my husband and I. It was originally in the living room, but she pooped in it when it was there too.

 

Honestly, when I say I've tired all different placements I have!

 

On a good note, this morning when I went grocery shopping, I left Lola out on the first floor. And when I got home there was no poop!!

 

I starting changing her food over yesterday (from Taste of the Wild to Canidae ALS). And I'm decreasing the amount to 1 1/4 cups twice a day. And I gave her rescue remedy before I left, AND walked her for 20 minutes before I left (she pooped a lot).

 

So it was a good day!!

[Batmom]

Hey, progress is good! Labor intensive for you right now, but sounds like you are on the road to figuring out what will work for her .

[Guest happygrey]

Yes, the crate is upstairs in my bedroom. The president of the rescue told me specifically to put it there, so that Lola can sleep in it, in the same room as my husband and I. It was originally in the living room, but she pooped in it when it was there too.

 

Honestly, when I say I've tired all different placements I have!

 

On a good note, this morning when I went grocery shopping, I left Lola out on the first floor. And when I got home there was no poop!!

 

I starting changing her food over yesterday (from Taste of the Wild to Canidae ALS). And I'm decreasing the amount to 1 1/4 cups twice a day. And I gave her rescue remedy before I left, AND walked her for 20 minutes before I left (she pooped a lot).

 

So it was a good day!!

 

Oh good! My fingers and toes are crossed for you that you've turned a corner. Sounds like maybe you've hit the magic combination on factors to get this to stop.

 

[Guest stufts]

Second day in a row with NO POOP when I left Lola alone!!!!!!!

 

You have no idea how excited I am!! (not getting my hopes up though!)

 

Tomorrow is our vet appt. so I'll see what they say!!!

 

Sandy

[Batmom]

Sounds like you are well on the way!

 

Just to warn you: Don't panic if she has a backsliding incident (potties in the house one day). Evaluate ("should I have taken her out again?"), remain calm, don't make massive changes unless your evaluation indicates. Things may go "two steps forward, half step back, three steps forward, half step back" for awhile.