"not Cat Safe" Vs "cat Correctable?"

[jsullysix]

Hey there,

 

We have two greys (Aslan, age 9 and Nico, age 4)and have had them for a little over two years now. I tend to go for cat safe dogs, as we have had cats in the past. Aslan is certainly cat safe, but we weren't sure (nor was her foster) about Nico. It wasn't really an issue until recently, when we got a cat. Of course, we've introduced them to each other slowly (it's been about 3 weeks).

 

Aslan has been fine, but Nico certainly shows interest about half (or a little more) of the time. She's kept muzzled for safety when the cat is out in the open, but she will seek the cat out some times,(and at times get swatted by the cat) and other times, she'll not be as interested. Nico usually shows interest when the cat is moving. Sometimes she'll be very curious about the cat and not back down as the cat hisses, but other times, Nico will lie down (pharaoh dog style) in front of the cat. When she's a bit more curious, Aslan will bark at her as if to say "knock it off", but she's never listened to him in the past, so she's probably not going to start now.

 

Nico is given praise when she walks away from (or lies down in front of) the cat, and is told "NO!" when she gets a little too close. Since the cat has claws and Nico has a muzzle, I tend to let them try to adjust without stepping in (not sure if that's the way to go, but I figured that they would acclimate better, and I originally thought she was cat safe)I tend to think that she's "cat correctable" because of the times when she avoids the cat, but beyond that, I'm not sure of the difference. I've always figured that a not cat safe dog would be obvious, but I don't know for sure.

 

I should mention that Nico's ears are up when she's showing interest, and HAS growled earlier on, along with having what I call the front "shoulder mohawk" (her hair sticks up between her front shoulders) but I don't notice her panting, etc, and I can move her away easily.

 

Sorry if this is rambling, and I'd like to point out that if any pet has to be removed from the situation, it's the cat (as she's the newest), but I'd like to avoid any of that, as the cat is very sweet, and my wife loves her to death already.

 

Anyone have suggestions, etc?

 

Thanks,

 

Sully

Edited December 30, 2009 by jsullysix

[robinw]

Loca was not cat safe at all when i adopted her, despite having tested small animal safe at her group. she eventually became cat safe with some work. i had her tied to my waist with my leash whenever i was home. i corrected her every time she even looked at the cat and praised her when she didn't; she was muzzled whenever i wasn't home and when she wasn't attached to me. i knew it worked when about 1.5 months later i came home from work and found loca without her muzzle and the cat alive and well. i don't know how long it took, but i would say she wasn't even cat workable when i first brought her home. give that a try...

[iluvgreys]

I agree with Robin. It takes very close monitoring and training to move a gh to a cat-tolerant status (given her starting point). Your girl sounds very workable. A non-cat tolerant grey will usually be VERY intense about staring down a cat, might chatter, drool, lick lips, lunge, and chase the kitty. Do you have baby gates up so the cat has escape opportunities if needed?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

If you can break the stare of the hound, but the hound still shows interest, that would be classified as "workable" in my book (I do cat test sometimes for a group). That is going on the assumption that you dont see any of the puffing of cheeks, whining, lunging, chattering of teeth, etch. It also goes on the assumption that when the cat swats the dogs face, the dog does not get more excited about the cat, but backs away or runs away. If the cat swats the dog and the dog pushes forward to the cat, and intensifies its "sniffing", then I would be VERY cautious about that hound, that is borderline "NOT SAFE". It does sound like your hound is "workable", so what I would do is intially I would do the "correction" method, squirt gun when the hound gets close and wont back away with a verbal "ahh". After a few occasions of the water, you can move to the positive reinforcement method (treats and praise when you see the hound look away or walk away). Of course muzzle, and baby gate so the cat has a safe place to run to if need be. Also, I would strongly suggest that when you are not around to supervise, the cat and hound sould be separated by a crate or closed door. I have two cats, and foster hounds, this is the technique that I use. It usually takes about 1-2 weeks of this to get them to a point where the muzzle can come off.

 

Chad

[Fruitycake]

Much good advice already, but I would add that I would not allow her to do the sphinx lie down facing the cat. It could be a "go ahead and run, I'll get you" pose, and the dog is still focused on the cat. With as fast as the dogs can move that kind of pose is just a lunge away from an injured cat. If you could get her to go lie on her bed, or walk away every time she seems to want to settle in facing the cat, I'd think that would be better.

 

She does seem workable though.

 

Good luck!

[Guest longdogs]

This is a hard one and it really comes down to how well you know your dog. None of my 3 greys was rated 'cat safe' or 'cat workable' but the test doesn't tell the whole story. We never planned to have cats but ended up with three, living separately to the greys, in another part of the house and a large pen and their own garden. All greys three would chase a strange cat with enthusiasm but for one it was just a game, she didn't want to actually catch it. She was also a very responsive and intelligent girl who wanted to please us. We never tried to properly cat train her for complicated reasons, but on her own I'm sure she could have easily been trained. The other two were more hard-core and were actual cat killers. William was such a hunter I would never have been able to trust him. Even so, William learned enough that he could be lead through the 'cat garden' muzzled and leashed and would not try to chase our cats. He even struck up a bit a friendship with one of the cats after a couple of years. After William passed away we were left with just Angel and decided we had to try to bring cats and dogs together. It took many months of small steps, but with confident adult cats and a very small grey that was eager to please us, things turned out well. When cat number 4 joined us - a mad kitten - he promptly adopted Angel as his best friend. We now trust her absolutely with the cats. I even found the kitten, now 1yo, sampling one end of her bone while Angel was sitting on the lawn crunching away at the other end! With strange cats it is still a different story.

 

I don't know how well this answers your question. Every dog is different. We guessed with Angel that pleasing us would eventually win out over chasing the cats. It was a slow process because we never pushed her too much at a time and rarely took it so far that we had to reprimand her. We were very clear when she was behaving well and rewarded her for it.

 

[Guest meagain]

Chad - Do you get dogs already cat-tested or upon you taking them in, you cat-test them yourself? I'm curious if you've ever worked with a dog that tested 'not' and turned that around?

 

I know I'd never feel comfortable bringing a cat into a house with a non-cat friendly dog (if I had a dog) to try it, but I am a bit curious as to what the chances are that such a dog might come around.

 

Would 'you' ever personally try to introduce a cat into your home with a dog tested no-cat?

Edited December 31, 2009 by meagain

[jsullysix]

Thanks all for reassuring some of my thoughts and sharing your insight.

 

I got in touch with a friend from the group I got Nico from, and it turns out that she was most likely never cat tested. I'm a little upset about that, but I don't know why I wouldn't have remembered this. I think that her foster had small dogs, and Nico was small dog safe, and presumed "likely" cat safe.

 

We're going to stick to what we've been doing; separating them when we go to bed, and keeping Nico muzzled when the cat is out in the open. All the while, remaining vigilant. Gonna be interesting, but I have a feeling that it'll work out.

 

BTW, longdogs, your tabby in the pic with your grey is the adult version of the cat. Kinda funny.

 

Thanks all,

 

Sully

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Lisa,

I do the cat testing for some of the CIGA dogs. Personally I have had a few hounds in my house that tested "workable" but after a few days here, it was apparent that they were not workable. Any hound through GO or CIGA will be cat tested before being placed in any home.

 

Chad

[jsullysix]

Brief update:

 

It's been slow going; sometimes Nico's pretty interested, and she's not sphinxing as much in front of the cat anymore. Often times, she'll show interest and eventually walk away. The cat isn't helping much, because she'll swat at Nico when she's walking by. We're still muzzled all the time, except meals and sleeping (they're separated when we go to bed).

 

The strangest/grossest thing is that Nico will now try to get at the cat litter; I've noticed the..."litter" mashed into the muzzle, so it seems like she's eating it. Great. This has happened twice (we have to come up with a better way to close it off), and today, Nico had some sort of waste smeared into the muzzle again this afternoon after I let her back from going outside. She's never done this before, and I wonder what's driving it. Any ideas?

 

I keep telling myself that she's workable, but ugh, I wish they just got along.

 

Sully

[robinw]

my dogs seem to like the taste of cat poop. i think it's fairly common. it's gross

[Guest SillyIzzysMom]

they all love the kitty tootsie rolls. . .gotta keep them away from the litter box! I have my litter box in the utility room and have a cat-door cut into the door so the dogs can't snack

[iluvgreys]

Nico had some sort of waste smeared into the muzzle again this afternoon after I let her back from going outside. She's never done this before, and I wonder what's driving it. Any ideas?

Cat poop must be a delicacy to many hounds. My cat has a covered litter box which is turned towards a wall so the greys can't snack. Definitely need to keep your hound out of the cat litter!

[Guest spider9174]

I haven't read all the responses...but here is what I'd say.

 

Not cat safe:

Biting at the cat

Trying to jump/lunge towards the cate

Licking lips

Drooling

Chases to kill

Hunts--meaning, when the pup is in the same place he/she was cat tested, but there is no cat, the pup goes back to where the cat was and looks like he/she is hunting the cat

Can't redirect attention

 

Cat workable:

Interested in the cat

Will chase but not to kill

Is redirectable--meaning you can get the pup's attention away from the cat. A Leave it or 'eh eh' will bring his attention to you and away from the cat.

When in the home, you pup may chase the cat, but not necessarily to catch it. A not cat safe pup will chase and kill. Chasing isn't acceptable, so you have to work on stopping the behavior--water gun/can with pennies/etc used to get attention away from the cat

Pup may be on pillow watching cat, but when cat darts by he gets up and may try to chase

 

Key here is that you can always get the attention back to you.

 

Cat safe:

Could care less or very indifferent to the presence of a cat

Walks away from the cat

Won't chase

If cat hisses, pup walks/runs away like his feelings were just hurt.

May even be afraid of cat

 

REMEMBER: What you have indoors is not indicative of what you have outdoors or what you see when your pup is around higher prey pups. You can have a cat safe pup inside and he goes outside and sees the neighbor's fluffy feline and you have a dead fluffy feline. I had a foster that was higher prey than my male. My husband was walking both of them. Two fluffy small dogs came up and they both tried to pick one up and eat them. (They were off leash.) Now, any other day my male would not have tried to do this. He would have been interested, but not tried to eat the pup. The foster want dinner (not at all small dog safe) and just his presence with Gable it was a different ball game. Given the opportunity, they both would have "packed" up on the off leash fluffy pups.

[turbotaina]

I haven't read all the responses...but here is what I'd say.

 

Not cat safe:

Biting at the cat

Trying to jump/lunge towards the cate

Licking lips

Drooling

Chases to kill

Hunts--meaning, when the pup is in the same place he/she was cat tested, but there is no cat, the pup goes back to where the cat was and looks like he/she is hunting the cat

Can't redirect attention

 

Cat workable:

Interested in the cat

Will chase but not to kill

Is redirectable--meaning you can get the pup's attention away from the cat. A Leave it or 'eh eh' will bring his attention to you and away from the cat.

When in the home, you pup may chase the cat, but not necessarily to catch it. A not cat safe pup will chase and kill. Chasing isn't acceptable, so you have to work on stopping the behavior--water gun/can with pennies/etc used to get attention away from the cat

Pup may be on pillow watching cat, but when cat darts by he gets up and may try to chase

 

Key here is that you can always get the attention back to you.

 

Cat safe:

Could care less or very indifferent to the presence of a cat

Walks away from the cat

Won't chase

If cat hisses, pup walks/runs away like his feelings were just hurt.

May even be afraid of cat

 

REMEMBER: What you have indoors is not indicative of what you have outdoors or what you see when your pup is around higher prey pups. You can have a cat safe pup inside and he goes outside and sees the neighbor's fluffy feline and you have a dead fluffy feline. I had a foster that was higher prey than my male. My husband was walking both of them. Two fluffy small dogs came up and they both tried to pick one up and eat them. (They were off leash.) Now, any other day my male would not have tried to do this. He would have been interested, but not tried to eat the pup. The foster want dinner (not at all small dog safe) and just his presence with Gable it was a different ball game. Given the opportunity, they both would have "packed" up on the off leash fluffy pups.

 

Excellent assessment.

[robinw]

Loca was definitely "not case safe" since she chased to kill, lunged to kill, chased into the closets, licked her lips, drooled, etc., but with lots of work, she became cat safe. it was NOT easy. Seems like your dog isn't that bad.

[Guest greythounds]

Hi Everyone--It's cold here in Lubbock. I was thrilled to see that you were discussing cat-safety issues. I have a wonderful family interested in adopting and they have 4 cats. I took a candidate Greyhound over to their home--she was not cat tolerant-we figured that out quickly--the cat's fine--thank goodness for muzzles! Anyway, I'm forwarding this forum to the interested family and would certainly appreciate any advice. I haven't placed a Greyhound in a home with this many cats--most homes have one or two. Are there any additional considerations and what should I look for in the dog's personality? Will the Greyhound be happy being the only canine in this household? Let me know and thanks!!

Linda--A Place for Us Greyhounds--Lubbock.

[Guest houndhome]

Ditto to what Spider says. Sounds like Nico is curious but can be worked with. My Tiffany drooled and shaked with a fixed stare when we got her, and now she ignores the cats. We just used lots of positive reinforcement, and she got it that the cats are part of the family. Two big disclaimers, though, all three of our now cat safe dogs with ignore the cats in the house, but once one kitty got outside, and they hunted him as a pack and tried to kill him. The other thing, no dog can ever truly trusted to be cat safe - the kitties always need an escape route, and when I am gone during the day, the dogs are babygated into the family room so they can't get near the cats (as well as some other reasons). Even as ambivalent as my dogs are to the cats, if they get really bored, or something tends to catch their eyes, they can get too interested in the cats. Most often, the cats will start wrestling with each other, and this dogs will want to join in. Big point - no dog can ever be trusted to be fully cat or small animal safe.

[Guest spider9174]

Houndhome makes a good point. I know of a family that has a pup that is ambivalent to her cats when they are home (they've worked with her for a long time). But when they are gone, she's not at all cat safe. they have to take precautions so the cats aren't around their pup when they are gone.

 

I don't personally think it matters if there is one cat or 4. It is more about the reaction the cats draw out of the grey. For example, I had a foster that could not see below her nose. Originally, she tested cat safe--or when the cat was on the ground--she couldn't see the cat. When they picked the cat up, she tried to bite and lunge towards the cat. Not cat safe at all when she could see the cat. I have ferrets and she would bark at the crate, but with work stopped and never bothered them.

 

You can work with your pup or the family can, however, it takes diligence, setting up the pup for success, and keeping everyone safe. Muzzle, muzzle, muzzle. Do not let the family take the muzzle off until they are confident the pup won't chase. Advise them to use tools like a can with pennies in it or a squirt gun/bottle. Monitor, monitor, monitor. Tethering the pup to them for a few days is an excellent way to correct behavior and monitor.

 

Something to think about...I know a few people that have had sick cats. Their dogs never bothered any of the cats, but once they had a sick cat, one or more of the greys were more interested to the point of it not being safe. The feeling was the dogs knew the cat was sick and vulnerable.

 

OH...ETA...I wouldn't place a not cat safe pup in a home with new adopters or adopters with no dog experience. If they are committed to working on their pup, a cat workable pup may be ok, but a lower prey drive dog would be ideal.

Edited January 7, 2010 by spider9174

[Guest DarkHorse]

Your Nico sounds very much like Dexter. When we first brought Amadeus home, he liked to chase him, sniff him and stare at him. It took him about two weeks to get over the worst of it and another month to really get over it. We kept his muzzle on for the two weeks if we weren't right there supervising.

 

As for the litter eating... that's unfortunately normal. At our last place, the kitty litter was in the washroom under the counter. The dogs wouldn't go in the washroom even for the tempting treats. Now the kitty litter is in a closet with a sliding door open far enough for the cat but not enough so the dogs can get in, turn around and get all the way to the other side to the litter.

[Guest vezzerina]

I agree with the comments about it being a totally different ballgame when the humans are gone. Lyca is VERY submissive to our 3 cats when we are here, staying in her corner (albeit happily), but I have caught her standing in the middle of the living room when I come home and have even found evidence of her movements (toys moving around). Nanny cam, anyone?

[Guest the36thchamber]

My two greys show absolutely ZERO interest in our cats

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

Charlotte and Roman are not cat safe. They will ignore the cats as long as the cats don't run, and I am in the room (I muzzle of course). Zeph and Sophia are fine UNLESS the other two get going, then it's a pack frenzy.I would never leave any of them alone with cats, even with muzzles on. Luckily are floor plan and the habits of my DH and I are such that it is very easy to separate them. I sleep with the hounds, he sleeps with the cats!

[jsullysix]

Thanks all,

 

Nico seems like she's calming down a bit; she's still muzzled when the cat is available, but seems to be coming to the point where she may not need it as much. Thankfully, she reacts really well to the coke can full of pennies

 

Sully

[Guest LindsaySF]

She sounds cat correctable. With a correctable dog things will get better over time (eventually the muzzle can come off, etc), but I would NEVER leave them alone together. Good luck.