Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So, Tara was diagnosed with pleural effusion last week. She had been losing weight [looked like about 5lbs in about 2wks since we had her to the vet for vaccines]; but eating fine & activity was normal. Vet shot xrays of chest & back. Large fluid build up around lungs [not in] in between the chest wall & organs. Drained 3 litres of fluid - ick - of a milky yellowish goo tinged with some blood. [best way to describe it is like the watery puss from a zit.] More blood tests; another stool sample. Talked to vet today & blood normal - red/white counts within normal range. No infections. No parasites. No nothing. Tara looks even thinner [expected since 3 litres of fluid is about 6lbs/2.7kg] but still eating normally. Attitude seems better [isn't so stressed from having to spend the night at the vet]. Cultures came back as "inconclusive" and not bacterial/viral. Vet is saying possibly heart disease, lung disease, cancer. How can it be cancer if white blood cells are normal and not working overtime to fight infection? Other than the weight loss, Tara seems healthy. She did have a cough for awhile but we though it was because she had a bit of food caught in her throat - not 3 litres of fluid pressing on her lungs! Back from the cardiologist on Monday & determined it's NOT heart disease. Great. Not heart disease, not viral/bacteria. ** does that leave then? They had to drain another 2 litres of fluid from her chest. Results came back again as "not conclusive" but not "obvious" signs of cancer though there are types of cancer that are asymptomatic - that don't shed cells. Next option is thoroscopy or something similar to poke around and figure out the cause. I doubt highly it's idiopathic. A colleague from the UK suggested it may be malignant lung cancer since she filled up basically a week from being tapped the first time. Ugh. Thoughts? Has anyone else experienced this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Has there been an ultrasound done? Or is that primarily an abdominal thing, given hollow organs like the lungs? Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Has there been an ultrasound done? Or is that primarily an abdominal thing, given hollow organs like the lungs? Yes, that's what the cardiologist did yesterday. Ultrasound & echocardiogram. The fluid is all in the thorasic cavity not the abdominal cavity - so basically the problem is somewhere from the waist up. Again, ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lynne893 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I don't have an answer, but I will keep your Tara in my thoughts and heart. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eaglflyt Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 This sounds like *chylothorax* we see in humans. I've looked it up and it also happeens in dogs and cats. It is NOT necessarily a cancerous problem. See This LINK. I hope this info. will be helpful and that the cause and a treatment is found for your Tara soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytlucy Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Long shot but I'll toss it out there. My husband had these himself about 10 years as a side effect of some meds he was on. Is she on any meds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Is there a veterinary teaching hospital (university) in your area? Might be worth having pup seen there. AFAIK, most types of lung/heart tumors will show up on films, but could be there are some that don't (I don't know), and could be the fluid interfered with the views (wouldn't expect it to on ultrasound/echo, but I'm no expert). Classic lung cancers are easy to spot on x-ray. It's normal not to see an elevated white count with cancer. Which doesn't mean your pup has it. Sending hugs and prayers. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 The ultrasound and cardiogram sounds like a good idea. Hard to say what it is, as they have ruled out a lot of the "worries," you had. Good luck, love and hugs to you, for a positive outcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 3greysinPA Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Just hugs and prayers from PA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trevdog Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I lost my boy Jam 3 years ago from similar symtoms, although the fluid was building up around his heart, not his lungs. They were draining 2 liters at a time from him, we had it done 3 times over a 10 day period. Fluid tests showed he was shedding cancerous cells but it was not known from where. He had several ultrasounds and EKGs done and they couldn't find anything. He also had the cough from the buildup and blood work was normal. He was not eating well for weeks, and it got to the point where I couldn't even force feed him baby food.....I couldn't put him through anymore although I wish I had taken him to UF when it all started. Sending lots of prayers they can find out what is causing this and hoping they can find something to help your sweet girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kydie Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I vote, Chylothorax too, healing white light from western Pa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I lost my boy Jam 3 years ago from similar symtoms, although the fluid was building up around his heart, not his lungs. They were draining 2 liters at a time from him, we had it done 3 times over a 10 day period. Fluid tests showed he was shedding cancerous cells but it was not known from where. He had several ultrasounds and EKGs done and they couldn't find anything. He also had the cough from the buildup and blood work was normal. He was not eating well for weeks, and it got to the point where I couldn't even force feed him baby food.....I couldn't put him through anymore although I wish I had taken him to UF when it all started. Sending lots of prayers they can find out what is causing this and hoping they can find something to help your sweet girl. Thank you. See that's the weird thing about Tara - hers fills the area around the heart AND lungs. NO shedding of any cancerous cells; nothing on the ultrasound [and it was a color 3-D] or EKG; the cough stopped the minute she was drained the first time. Initially it sounded like a cat trying to dislodge a hairball... She's eating fine, though her appetite tamed a bit the day after she had her chest drained both times. She's upstairs sleeping on the bed; just went to check on her. Bright eyes and tag wagging. This is SO frustrating and I just want to tear my hair out! WSU [washington] vet school is about 3hrs away - that may be the next stop...Thank you all for your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mike Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Personally, I would get her to WSU asap. My opinion is it's serious to drain once and becomes a bigger issue each time thereafter. I'm a vet and I would probably send the canine to a speciality hospital like WSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 So, called WSU, and the appointments are only Mon/Wed [so not till next week at earliest] for $100 to start consult [not including procedures] and likely requires 2 days since any procedures would occur on day 2. This would require hotel stay, etc. as it's 3hrs or so from home. [Add gas + hotel cost to the trip] Specialist [internist] locally is $125 for appointment tomorrow. Went ahead and made that appointment since I can always cancel it this afternoon. They certainly gleaned the fact that boyfriend wasn't happy at all about the cardiologist appointment from this past Monday. I tried to stress the fact that he's paid all this money only to learn what it isn't - not what the problem is - so of course he's annoyed & upset. Our goal is, obviously, to reduce her stress as she really doesn't even like the vet on a good day. Also tried to stress that we want everything done in one appointment if at all possible - tired of going back & forth with no answers as she needs help. they couldn't give me an answer though as to whether or not a thoroscopy or something else would be needed. *ugh* as I continue to pull hair out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kydie Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Please keep us posted, Yep! those pups are a life time comitment, yours or their's Good Luck, hugs to your pup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Tara has a 10am appointment on Thursday so I'll let you all know. Please keep paws crossed for chlyothorax! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eaglflyt Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Paws and fingers are crossed and prayers are being said in Oklahoma! By your description and the amount of fluid reported, I think it is highly likely it's chylothorax. Lymphatic fluid collects in copious amounts in this condition. I'm praying for them to find the cause and an effective and quick treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FullMetalFrank Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Sending prayers and hoping for some answers for you and Tara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Just back from the internist. 80% chance of lung cancer - 5% that it's mesothelioma [sp?] like people get if they have asbestos poisoning - and 15% chance chylothorax. Only way to tell for sure - well best method to tell - is thoracotomy [going in from the side] or sternotomy [splitting the ribs like you would a thanksgiving turkey]. We could go for the CT scan, but it would still result in surgery so why not cut to the chase? Her lungs are normal sized according to the xrays now, so likely the cancer is hiding out somewhere inside and hasn't grown to the point that it's distorting the shape/size of her lungs. Good news is that if they go in & don't find cancer, they'll try and unblock the lymphs that are causing the chylothorax. High end if sternotomy needed is $3500 - low end around $2000 for thoracotomy. And why didn't we think to sign Tara up for insurance? Ugh. Glad I just signed Evie up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazygang Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Just back from the internist. 80% chance of lung cancer - 5% that it's mesothelioma [sp?] like people get if they have asbestos poisoning - and 15% chance chylothorax. So very sorry to hear this.........you're both in our prayers Quote Run free our beloved Sir Snowy, Pip, Queenie, Sadie, Tess & Rosie until we meet again......I would rather feel the thorn than to never see the rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Energy11 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Sorry to hear this as well. I am in the process of signing up all five of mine for insurance, so I know what you mean. Love, hugs and prayers for you and your baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kydie Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Paws crossed here in western Pa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eaglflyt Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 We're still hoping and praying for a good outcome. I'm hoping those percentages are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest trevdog Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I hope they are wrong too...we were out $5k with Jam and still not a definite diagnosis...when his fluid was drained he felt better too and the coughing stopped. It sounds the same as your girl's, about the hairball part. At first they thought is was pneumonia...the only option I had left was exploratory surgery but by then he was too weak to have made it through. sending lots of prayers and praying they can help her! I know how you are feeling....with both the vet and the financial side.... keep us posted Edited August 13, 2009 by trevdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdlndgreasil Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Ok now I'm very angry and confused. They tested the fluid for one other thing & just called with the results - it IS chylothorax. Though the underlying cause is still likley cancer, they can't be 100% sure without opening her up. Lots of times the chylothorax is idiopathic [no known cause] but in this case, still guessing cancer. Can't give a difinitive which is frustrating. So, now not sure what to do. Boyfriend just wants to continue to treat the fluid [draining as needed] and let Tara do as she will until it's time. Vet friend says likely the best bet since if she's opened & riddled with cancer, probably don't want to wake her up from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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