Hge

[Guest SoulsMom]

Until Soul came down with this I'd never heard of it . . . . .so I'd like to hear about what it was like for others who have gone through this. From what the vets have told me, and my own research, they don't know what causes it. Also, there is a high chance of reoccurance. The vets also told me that immediate treatment is needed or they could die within a few hours Seeing the amount of blood that came out of Soul I can believe it, but is it true? It blows my mind to think that if I didn't get him to Tufts that night that he could have died . . . . .

 

Soul's illness started out with a gurgly, upset tummy on 9/27. The e-vet treated him for worms, gave him flagyl, and said he had some blood in his stools. The Big D came that night. So, we went to a bland diet for a few days. He was better in just a few days. Exactly three weeks later, the same symptoms: Gurgly tummy, not wanting food, a little blood in his stool. I fasted him and then started the bland diet and his 2nd round of Panacur. Within a week he was better. Then, just one week later, he had the gurgly tummy and gushing blood that came out with his poop, which eventually turned to all blood.

 

So, did anyone else have gradual symptoms? Or was it all very sudden? Did your vets give you any ideas as to the cause? And how about diet? Soul is still on the ID and the Flagyl, and I'm scared of what might happen when the meds are done and/or he goes back to his regular diet.

 

ETA: His ulstrasound came back clean, with only a slight thickening of the wall of the small intestines. Next step is to scope him, but neither vet thinks that is necssary at this point, and quite frankly I don't like the idea of such an invasive procedure.

Edited November 18, 2008 by SoulsMom

[TheFullHouse]

Emmy had HGE a couple of years ago. She woke up one morning throwing up everything, including water. She couldn't keep anything down. By noon she was poohing bloody water and it scared me to death. Mike came home and rushed her to the vet. She spent 3 days at the vet on IV's and antibiotics. She came home and continued oral antibiotics for 10 more days and was fine after that. She never had it again.

[BauersMom]

Our experience was very sudden. At noon when I was home for lunch he was fine, and when I came home at 5 he was sitting in a crate of Big D. From there it went downhill fast - more diarrhea, vomiting everything and then by 7 he was completely unable to stand on his own and had lost total control of his bowels. By 8, we were at the e-vet!!

 

Easily the scariest thing I've ever had to experience as a dog owner.

 

He was on IV for a day, sub-Q fluids when we left and a round of antibiotics. He's never had an issue since. We had tried Wellness Fish and potato that morning - no idea if that's what caused it, but I tossed the bag when I got home the next day!

 

Edit to add: In our case, it wasn't bloody diarrhea, but the vet said that because of the low blood volume and high hematocrit, he felt that's what we were looking at. And the fact that we started seeing signs of going into hypovolemic shock.

Edited November 19, 2008 by BauersMom

[Guest VaGreymom]

Two of my girls have had HGE. It started with a gurgling in her stomach. Some throwing up. This transpired in a 24 hour period. When I came home from work there was the Big D every where including a massaive amount of blood. We went to the Evet, I was told she could have died very quickly from this . You have to react quick when this happens. They do not know what causes this and yest they can get it again. She stayed on rice and chicken...and rice and hamburger for about a week. No problems since. My other girl had it as well, not as severe as Cheyenne but it was pretty bad and very scarey.

[Guest ChancesMom]

Amber, I think that I have told you all of this but will repeat anyway. The first time Chance had HGE it started on a weekend. He was eating a lot of grass and not eating much of his food. He would still get excited when it was time for his walks but other than that just kind of laying around. On Sunday night he woke me during the night and when he went out he just wanted to eat grass. On Monday morning when we went for our walks he had some diarrhea and it looked a little bloody but it was dark and I could not see that well. Before I left for work he threw up once but it was all grass. My granddaughter, who lived with me at the time, called me at work and said that Chance had thrown up 3 more times. I called and made an appointment at the vet but could not get in until 5:00 that afternoon. When I got home from work there was bloody diarrhea and vomit all over my living room. He met me at the door trying to cover his face like he was embarrassed. When I got him to the vet they did blood work and were going to send him home with Flagyl. The tech and I took him out to get a urine sample and he had a very large amount of all blood stool. That is when the vet said they were going to keep him overnight. They gave him IV antibiotics and Iv Fluids. He came home the next evening. I kept him on a bland diet for a while and he had pudding pooh for a while but that was not unusual for him.

 

The second time I was more aware. He started being finicky with his food and eating a lot of grass. I started watching his pooh. I took him for a walk that afternoon and he had a little bit of bloody diarrhea. Took him to the vet immediately, they gave him sub Q fluids and sent him home with Flagyl and Antibiotics. He was fine the next day. I was told to give him no treats, no peanut butter, only his dog food. I kept him on the ID canned food with his dry food for a while but now he only gets the dry food. I give him yogurt every night and olive oil with one of his meals.

 

Both times he had it there was some stress so the vet seemed to think that his was due to stress but they are really not sure what causes it.

 

Edited to add that my vet told me that any time Chances tummy started gurgling to give him a Pepcid. I have had to give him one 3 or 4 times since then and it has always taken care of the gurgling.

 

Sorry this ended up being so long. Now you know what to watch for and will be able to catch it earlier. I wonder if he had been put on antibiotics right away if maybe things would have not drug out so long for you.

Edited November 19, 2008 by ChancesMom

[rschultz]

this is very interesting cause lexie still not diagnosed. all blood tests came back ok vet putting her on low id diet tomorrow ( i will pick up food). she is happy running but looks to me like i see more ribs. He said if they scope her the specialist will prob put her on low id deit anyway so we are trying this for now. prayers for you soul. It is frustrating cause it comes on all at once for no appparent reason it seems.

 

[Guest MonsterMomma]

We went through this with our Labrador, Annie, a few years back. The onset was very sudden, one minute she was fine, and the next she was having explosive bloody diarrhea on the kitchen floor. Of course, it was just after 5:00pm on a Friday, so the regular vet was not available. She had HGE and pancreatitis. She spent four days in ICU at the e-vet on supportive care, and we almost lost her to DIC. She did recover after several days and several thousand dollars, and fortunately has not had a recurrence. No cause was ever found.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Thank you all for your replies! It's good to hear what others have gone through, and maybe people reading this thread will keep these symptoms in mind in case one of their pups is stricken. Esp. since it seems that this condition can go from minor to extreme in such a short period of time.

 

Donna, I actually think that Soul would have gotten very sick back in September if the e-vet had not put him on the Flagyl. I'm wondering if that small round of meds kept the monster at bay for a month, but wasn't enough to stop whatever was brewing. . . . .

 

On Sunday night he woke me during the night and when he went out he just wanted to eat grass

 

Same with Soul, and he NEVER wakes me up at night . . .

 

So, it seems that some symptoms came of quite suddenly, and other developed a little slower like Soul and Chance. Soul was also eating grass. I can tell you, every time I hear the gurgly tummy now I'm on high alert.

 

He was on IV for a day, sub-Q fluids when we left and a round of antibiotics. He's never had an issue since. We had tried Wellness Fish and potato that morning - no idea if that's what caused it, but I tossed the bag when I got home the next day!

 

This is interesting. Soul was on a fish and potato formula as well. All the symptoms would stop when I would put him on a bland diet, them resume when he went back on his regular kibble. . . . .

Edited November 19, 2008 by SoulsMom

[Guest SoulsMom]

this is very interesting cause lexie still not diagnosed. all blood tests came back ok vet putting her on low id diet tomorrow ( i will pick up food). she is happy running but looks to me like i see more ribs. He said if they scope her the specialist will prob put her on low id deit anyway so we are trying this for now. prayers for you soul. It is frustrating cause it comes on all at once for no appparent reason it seems.

 

All of Soul's blood tests looked ok too. Both the one in September, and the more extensive one he had with the all blood bowel movements.

[Guest FrostyBottoms]

Amber, I just Googled HGE and I saw this as one of the causes...

Immune mediated destruction of the intestinal lining

So I wonder if he is more at risk because he has Lupus...an immune deficient disease.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Amber, I just Googled HGE and I saw this as one of the causes...

Immune mediated destruction of the intestinal lining

So I wonder if he is more at risk because he has Lupus...an immune deficient disease.

 

Yup, the vets and I have discussed that as well . Really no way to tell for sure without a scope, which we don't want to do yet since nothing to severe showed up on the ultrasound and the bloodwork came back all clear. (and even then, still might not get an answer)

 

If his Lupus has become systemic then it would show up in his kidney values. But since what Discoid Lupus does is the skin cells basically "attacking" themselves this could be a cause, but only in his intestines rather than his nails, eyes, and nose.

 

One thing I've noticed with his DL is that when his nose is good, his nails are bad, etc. It's like it picks an area and then leaves the others one alone. Perhaps it picked his intestines this time . . . . .

 

 

[Guest JillT]

Both of my hounds have had HGE, and one of them has had it more than once, though neither has had it for nearly two years now. The first time was the worst--big D, vomiting, progressing to becoming very sick and passing pure blood (which I believe is what happened with Soul). They both ended up spending two days at the e-vet for IV fluids, electrolytes, antibiotics, etc. and then coming home with Flagyl and some other meds for 10 days. Also did canned ID exclusively for a couple weeks before very gradually re-introducing their regular food. I think they are just prone to this and would get it again, but I have been able to nip it in the bud several times as I've gotten more experienced. These are things that I have found helpful:

 

1. If I hear gurgly tummy noises and see any form of D, I immediately switch them over to canned ID for a day or two and give a couple days of Flagyl--I have done this several times and have found it never progresses to HGE, and they are fine within a day or two.

 

2. I never allow them to eat grass anymore. When my first hound got HGE, my vet specifically told me to make sure she didn't eat any grass while recuperating. I have found since I stopped allowing them to eat grass, there have been very few instances where I see gurgly tummy noises/D, which might lead to HGE.

 

3. I finally found foods which work for them, and I never deviate. For my hounds, this turned out to be Wellness CORE (Ocean formula for one, and Original formula for the other). I tried a number of foods, and the key for my hounds seems to be higher protein, but lower fat (like not above about 14%). I really think the first time my hound got HGE, it may have been caused by the EVO kibble which I had recently started giving her. I don't think it was the high protein, as she has done pretty well on Origen, which is high protein, and does great on Wellness CORE, which is relatively high protein, but EVO is very high in fat, and I think it was just too rich for her.

 

4. I give only one kind of treat (Wellness apple/banana/yogurt or Wellness peanut/honey--they seem fine with either of these and really like them), and not too many each day. I have also found they like bananas, which I can give occasionally.

 

For me, the main things just seem to be really sticking with a diet which works, and immediately dealing with any intestinal issues that seem likely to be the start of HGE. My vet said we could scope my hounds to see what was going on if it continued to be a problem, but I preferred to take a much less invasive approach first (and she agreed with me) to see if we could control things just through diet and early intervention, and so far it seems to be working. I hope Soul continues to feel better, and that you are able to keep him well by finding things that work for him.

[Guest ChancesMom]

Amber, I just remembered, both times that Chance had HGE he was sent home with a tube of medicine that I had to give him once a day. It was very thick and the color of molasses. I would put it on my finger and just force it in the back of his mouth. It was used to coat the intestine. I am sorry but I do not remember what it was called.

 

Chance never eats grass except just before he started getting sick.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Amber, I just remembered, both times that Chance had HGE he was sent home with a tube of medicine that I had to give him once a day. It was very thick and the color of molasses. I would put it on my finger and just force it in the back of his mouth. It was used to coat the intestine. I am sorry but I do not remember what it was called.

 

Chance never eats grass except just before he started getting sick.

 

Was the mediation to soothe his upset tummy or was to fight whatever was causing the bleeding?

 

[Bluesky]

Cali had HGE earlier this year. The symptoms were tummy gurgling a couple of days before and then bloody big D. Shortly thereafter bloody vomit and off to the vet we went.

She stayed in the vet overnite on fluids and was sent home with flagyl and canned food.

 

She had not recovered from the D even after the meds and food so the vet suggested she was allergic to the food. We tried eliminating every food ingredient we could find until someone suggested to try raw. Since she's been on raw food I've had absolutely no problems with her.

 

It's been speculated that she may not do well on whatever they add to the food during the processing stage of the manufacturing process. I don't care, I just know she's doing well and we haven't had any problems since.

 

Cali's HGE Story

 

Vicky

[Guest i_heart_greys]

I agree - dealing with bloody D has been the scariest thing I've had to handle as a dog mama. Our broodie has had three bouts of it since the summer. The vet wasn't able to diagnose it 100% as HGE, but it's definitely some kind of Colitis/HGE/IBD. We are pretty certain it's food-related. The tiniest bit of wheat or "foreign food" will trigger it.

 

The first time it happened, it came on very suddenly. We rushed her over to the evet for an overnight stay with fluids and antibiotics. The second, we had had a dog sitter that gave her a milkbone (no more milkbones!). I think this last time it was caused by a seemingly benign piece of cheese. :-( It always starts with that horrible gurgly stomach. Then the grass eating. She was throwing up a lot this last time too, but managed to keep some water down soon after.

 

As of now, we are super strict on what and when she eats. She only has grain free dog food (taste of the wild pacific stream) mixed with grilled chicken breast or thighs. Her "treats" are wheat free too. I have my other two on the same diet just in case she gets into someone else's food bowl.

Edited November 19, 2008 by i_heart_greys

[Guest tobinhr]

I am interested in if any of the other hounds are raw fed. Mac had some digestive problems when he first came home, but never anything as serious as this.

 

Jan

[Guest ChancesMom]

Donna, I actually think that Soul would have gotten very sick back in September if the e-vet had not put him on the Flagyl. I'm wondering if that small round of meds kept the monster at bay for a month, but wasn't enough to stop whatever was brewing. . .

 

I think that this is very possible.

 

Was the mediation to soothe his upset tummy or was to fight whatever was causing the bleeding

?

 

It was actually used to coat his tummy. HGE is actually an inflamation of the whole intestine.

[Guest SoulsMom]

I am interested in if any of the other hounds are raw fed. Mac had some digestive problems when he first came home, but never anything as serious as this.

 

Jan

 

Soul was on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. It worked very well for his Lupus, but now I'm wondering if the fish was just too much for him . . . .

 

?

It was actually used to coat his tummy. HGE is actually an inflamation of the whole intestine.

Just curious because my vet mentioned something similiar, but it was more of a "pepcid" type medication to make him feel better.

[BauersMom]

I am interested in if any of the other hounds are raw fed. Mac had some digestive problems when he first came home, but never anything as serious as this.

 

Jan

 

Mine was partially-fed raw. The night before he had the kibble, he had a rabbit. The vet wanted to peg it on the rabbit, but I guess it could have been either. We'll never really know.

[GreyPoopon]

Here at GITroubles R Us, we specialize in bloody diarrhea and vomiting. There have been a couple of bouts this fall, and at least half the pack has been in trouble at one time or another. It isn't always labelled HGE, and we often don't identify the trigger.

 

Our "best" HGE story stars Minnie, a standard poodle. It started almost 7 years ago, so some of the details are hazy. Minnie had always had a bit of a queasy stomach: she was prone to vomiting. Diarrhea was rare, especially after the first few months that she was here, but the vomiting increased in frequency. I was able to identify--and avoid--some triggers, and so reduce the frequency. But we all thought she was a perfectly healthy 2 yr old dog.

 

Then on Christmas morning 2001--it was a Tuesday--she insisted that we get up at some unmentionable hour so she could poop. This was unprecedented and so upsetting, but the poop was diarrhea without blood.

 

On Boxing Day, she threw up in the middle of a family party.

 

She seemed fine for the rest of the week.

 

On Saturday during our morning walk (from about 7:10-7:35), there was blood in her stool. I decided to make an appointment at our clinic. I walked her over just before 11. On the way, she pooped blood. A lot of it. I managed to scrape/scoop much of it (more than a large double handful) into a bag to show the vet. The vet would have checked her right into the hospital, but she knew that I hate leaving a dog, especially one who gets as upset as Minnie. So she gave her a bunch of injections (flagyl, tylocine, and I don't recall what else), and sent her home. I think I took her in later for another round of injections, and promised to go in on Sunday too. But on a short walk at 11pm, she not only pooped more blood, she started vomiting gobs of it. So off we went to the e-vet. He repeated the injections, and gave her some sub-q fluids. She had more injections on Sunday. I think it was Monday or Tuesday before she could keep down her meds and some rice (and perhaps id or something).

 

Over the next week or so, we kept up the meds and gradually re-introduced exercise and her own food. At about the 2 week mark, she had a relapse. This, of course, happened at 5am on Sunday, so we ended up back at the e-vet. The second trip was much less successful, since we were seen by a vet who wanted to run a bunch of expensive tests instead of repeating the meds.

 

We started all over with the meds and exercise restrictions, and gradually built back toward her regular routine. In less than two weeks--one, I think--she had another relapse.

 

I don't recall if there was a fourth round or not. What I do know is that we had agreed during one of the rounds that if she had another relapse, we were going to scope her and find out what was going on.

 

She had that relapse, and we did scope her. The lab tests showed two different types of inflammatory bowel disease (eosinophilic gastroenteritis and ulcerative colitis) related in part to food allergies.

 

We continued the flagyl and one or two other things. She was also put on the maximum dose of prednisone. In addition, she was put on a novel diet--in her case, both the protein and the carb were novel. Despite the aggressive treatment, it was weeks before she finally started to regain some of the weight she lost, and much longer before her stool was firm.

 

We gradually weaned her off the pred. She started in early February; I think it was October when we stopped. She remained fairly stable for quite a while.

 

For the next few years, she had a relapse every spring. Heaven only knows why.

 

After a couple of years, the food was discontinued here. I almost had a heart attack. I finally found an alternative that kept her fairly stable--albeit with soft stool--for a couple of years. Then we found out about an improved blood test for food allergies. A lot of vets still don't like it, but my vet wanted to try it. We ran it, and found out that she was sensitive to some of the ingredients in the food she was on. I picked a different food, and her stool quality improved. I've changed a few times since (usually because the food has been reformulated). I use the same allergy info to select treats--for a long long time the only "treat" she had was her own kibble, but now I know what I can safely try.

 

After so much experience with her, I can usually tell when things are going sour well before the symptoms appear--sometimes months before. Often the first bad sign is loss of appetite--not showing up for breakfast, or not finishing a meal. Then occasional vomiting and/or soft stool. When this happens, I do two things: 1. put her on misoprostal (stomach protection) and/or tylocine (intestinal tract health), and 2. start looking for possible triggers: has the food been reformulated, could she be getting crumbs from another dog's treat, is she under more stress? For Minnie, the most important variable is her diet, which must be strictly controlled.

 

Because of Minnie, I'm inclined to see food--or, at least, ingestion--issues everywhere. But I am fairly sure that much of the blood I've seen even from the others has been related to food, or to eating a weed or (in once recent case) cat poop.

 

Also, because of Minnie and that first horrible Saturday morning, when I see blood I almost always take the dog to the vet. She went from apparently healthy to nearly bleeding to death in four days; from a bit of blood to copious amounts in four hours. I don't want to run the risk of waiting too long.

[Guest SoulsMom]

Because of Minnie, I'm inclined to see food--or, at least, ingestion--issues everywhere. But I am fairly sure that much of the blood I've seen even from the others has been related to food, or to eating a weed or (in once recent case) cat poop.

 

Also, because of Minnie and that first horrible Saturday morning, when I see blood I almost always take the dog to the vet. She went from apparently healthy to nearly bleeding to death in four days; from a bit of blood to copious amounts in four hours. I don't want to run the risk of waiting too long.

 

I feel the same way now. It's amazing how fast it can go from bad to beyond worse

 

I've been thinking about diet, and what his symptoms were before the copious amounts of blood. I'm wondering if it was the grizzly salmon oil, that his system just couldn't take it anymore. He'd been off of it for awhile, and Tuesday before he got so sick was the first time I re-introduced it into his diet. . . . .

 

Hey Redpack, still waiting for your HGE tale!