Excessive Urination, Thirst,

[CaliforniaGreys]

Any word?

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

Darn it, we waited for the call with the results, but they did not get back to us today. So it looks like it will be Monday before we know anything. Frank is doing well, everything still normal except he is constantly looking for water. I am measuring his water intake and have closed off all his access to the toilets (he is a notorious toilet drinker) so we can get an idea exactly how much water he is going thru. His appetite is still normal, tonight for dinner he munched happily through a small slab of raw beef ribs, gnawed them down to the bone, and he ate his kibble this morning, pretty normal stuff.

 

I took him to the schoolyard and he had nice romp this afternoon; every indication that he is a happy, healthy dog except for this drinking/peeing thing...

 

Oh, and don't worry, my sweet boy has been getting plenty of hugs and loves today, I am trying not to be worried but it's hard, especially when you're hoping for simple UTI and it isn't looking like that is what it is... But it is still too soon to worry (yeah, right... I am a natural-born worry wart, and DF is absolutely bonded with this dog so we can't really help it.)

Edited November 16, 2008 by FullMetalFrank

[tamborine]

Also ask the vet about diabetes insipidus, which causes excessive thirst & urination. It's caused by a deficiency of ADH (anti-diuretic hormone). I've seen it a lot (in people with brain injuries). and from what I've just googled, dogs can get it too.

 

Although for a simple UTI!

[CaliforniaGreys]

I know the waiting is the worst!! Don't rule out a UTI until that culture is back. Hoping for the best for your boy

[patricia]

Waiting for "good" results with you and sending more prayers for our little man.

[Guest ss556]

Hoping its nothing serious. Looking for an update on Monday.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

Well, I drove by the clinic today and saw that they had staff on hand so I gave them a call. Dr. Beth was not in but the other vet, who has also seen Frank before, was, and gave me a brief rundown on the blood and urine test results. No bacteria or wbc's in the urine (in fact his overall wbc count is a little low) however, even with the low specific gravity of the urine, there is a lot of protein... Kidney and liver values are normal, thyroid is a little low even for a greyhound. Dr. Gray said this can indicate something not working quite right with the kidneys (the protein in the urine) or a adrenal (?) condition (I think that was the word he used, something along the lines of Cushings, etc...) he didn't go into a lot of detail or speculation because he wants Dr. Beth to go over the results as well and consult with me because at this point, he is her patient. He did say that we can probably rule out anything behavioral because of all the protein in the urine, and also that whatever it is, we have found it in the early stages and there is no immediate danger.

 

That being said, we are worried and the not knowing right now is really tough. I like the fact that this veterinarian (fairly new to us, we just started using them earlier this year) is staffed 24/7 and is the emergency vet as well as the regular office, they are literally two minutes from my house, and so far seem very grey savvy (knowing about the different normal ranges for GH blood values, etc...) and Frank seems to like his doctor a lot. I should know a lot more tomorrow, as far as what futher testing needs to be done, etc...

Edited November 17, 2008 by FullMetalFrank

[Plymgreys]

Not wishing to pre-empt or jinx anything here but our Cassie had Cushing's. Once the diagnosis was made the hardest bit was over. The treatment we used was called Vetoryl which at the time was not licenced for vetinary use in the US but is a drug developed for breast cancer in humans. It worked a treat and unlike some other treatments has no degenerative side effects. Some treatments for Cushing's can lead to Addison's. Vetoryl is expensive and the capsules have to be handled with gloves but Cassie did excellently well on it and showed improvements immediately. The only down side was the blood tests which had to be done regularly to check the dosage but as she settled the frequency was dropped from monthly to quarterly. Here's hoping whatever it turns out to be that it can be treated easily and well so that Frank will make a full recovery very quickly.

[Guest MAXNAV]

Well, I drove by the clinic today and saw that they had staff on hand so I gave them a call. Dr. Beth was not in but the other vet, who has also seen Frank before, was, and gave me a brief rundown on the blood and urine test results. No bacteria or wbc's in the urine (in fact his overall wbc count is a little low) however, even with the low specific gravity of the urine, there is a lot of protein... Kidney and liver values are normal, thyroid is a little low even for a greyhound. Dr. Gray said this can indicate something not working quite right with the kidneys (the protein in the urine) or a adrenal (?) condition (I think that was the word he used, something along the lines of Cushings, etc...) he didn't go into a lot of detail or speculation because he wants Dr. Beth to go over the results as well and consult with me because at this point, he is her patient. He did say that we can probably rule out anything behavioral because of all the protein in the urine, and also that whatever it is, we have found it in the early stages and there is no immediate danger.

 

That being said, we are worried and the not knowing right now is really tough. I like the fact that this veterinarian (fairly new to us, we just started using them earlier this year) is staffed 24/7 and is the emergency vet as well as the regular office, they are literally two minutes from my house, and so far seem very grey savvy (knowing about the different normal ranges for GH blood values, etc...) and Frank seems to like his doctor a lot. I should know a lot more tomorrow, as far as what futher testing needs to be done, etc...

 

I was kind of thinking a thyroid issue, as well as possible diabetes issue. My collie would drink TONS, which would of course increase the peeing. He was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, put on meds, and everything settled right down.

 

I hope you find out what's going on.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2008 by MAXNAV

[CaliforniaGreys]

From what you've said so far, sounds more like a kidney issue. If it were Cushings, they would see a high level of Cortisol in the urine. Plus Frankie's appetite would have increased and you would see that for sure.Try not to panic because the things mentioned are easily controlled, especially catching it early. Hoping to hear good news today

[laurie]

Sending good thoughts for your boy!

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

Any news?

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

OK... We went in to see the Dr. today; and she believes that this may be a hypothyroid issue. Frank's thyroid tested quite low, even for a greyhound. While that doesn't quite explain all of the thirst and peeing, she said it can account for some protein in the urine. He also had some muscle enzymes, which might be explained by more vigorous than usual exercise. Thre was no evidence of a UTI. I am working on another theory for the excessive drinking/peeing: the discount chicken parts from Albertsons. The peeing started around the same time and Dr. Beth agrees it could be from the saline solution they sometimes inject in meat. Since switching out the meat for no additive products three days ago, I believe we are seeing a decrease in Frank looking for water. I am measuring his intake and today he had 5 cups. No potty accidents today and he went outside a more normal (for him) number of times.

 

So... We are starting the thyrosyn, doing a one month trial and then we will repeat the tests. Dr. Beth says there still may be a possible kidney issue responsible for the protein loss; but his kidney blood values were absolutely normal so we are starting with the easiest thing first. Wish us luck! I forgot to ask for a copy of the test results, but I need to bring in his insurance forms tomorrow so I'll get them then. The office was pretty swamped today.

 

Oh, one other question, is thryosyn available at one of the discount pharmacies (Walmart, etc...?) It wasn't very expensive at the vet ($21 for a month) but if he does end up needing it for the long haul, cheaper is always better!

[PrairieProf]

I'm sorry your boy is sick. I don't know the details of getting prescription medications for dogs at human pharmacies--it will depend on what dose you need--but the generic name for synthetic thyroid hormone (T4) is levothyroxine. The lowest human dose sold is .025 mg, I believe (25 mcg). (Well-informed human thyroid patients--I'm one--often stay away from the generics as they can be variable, and stick with one consistent brand. Have no idea if anyone thinks it matters for dogs, though.)

[CaliforniaGreys]

OK... We went in to see the Dr. today; and she believes that this may be a hypothyroid issue. Frank's thyroid tested quite low, even for a greyhound. While that doesn't quite explain all of the thirst and peeing, she said it can account for some protein in the urine. He also had some muscle enzymes, which might be explained by more vigorous than usual exercise. Thre was no evidence of a UTI. I am working on another theory for the excessive drinking/peeing: the discount chicken parts from Albertsons. The peeing started around the same time and Dr. Beth agrees it could be from the saline solution they sometimes inject in meat. Since switching out the meat for no additive products three days ago, I believe we are seeing a decrease in Frank looking for water. I am measuring his intake and today he had 5 cups. No potty accidents today and he went outside a more normal (for him) number of times.

 

So... We are starting the thyrosyn, doing a one month trial and then we will repeat the tests. Dr. Beth says there still may be a possible kidney issue responsible for the protein loss; but his kidney blood values were absolutely normal so we are starting with the easiest thing first. Wish us luck! I forgot to ask for a copy of the test results, but I need to bring in his insurance forms tomorrow so I'll get them then. The office was pretty swamped today.

 

Oh, one other question, is thryosyn available at one of the discount pharmacies (Walmart, etc...?) It wasn't very expensive at the vet ($21 for a month) but if he does end up needing it for the long haul, cheaper is always better!

Good news then. Thyroid can be easily controlled. I've never heard of a once a month treatment for it. Interesting!

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

OK... We went in to see the Dr. today; and she believes that this may be a hypothyroid issue. Frank's thyroid tested quite low, even for a greyhound. While that doesn't quite explain all of the thirst and peeing, she said it can account for some protein in the urine. He also had some muscle enzymes, which might be explained by more vigorous than usual exercise. Thre was no evidence of a UTI. I am working on another theory for the excessive drinking/peeing: the discount chicken parts from Albertsons. The peeing started around the same time and Dr. Beth agrees it could be from the saline solution they sometimes inject in meat. Since switching out the meat for no additive products three days ago, I believe we are seeing a decrease in Frank looking for water. I am measuring his intake and today he had 5 cups. No potty accidents today and he went outside a more normal (for him) number of times.

 

So... We are starting the thyrosyn, doing a one month trial and then we will repeat the tests. Dr. Beth says there still may be a possible kidney issue responsible for the protein loss; but his kidney blood values were absolutely normal so we are starting with the easiest thing first. Wish us luck! I forgot to ask for a copy of the test results, but I need to bring in his insurance forms tomorrow so I'll get them then. The office was pretty swamped today.

 

Oh, one other question, is thryosyn available at one of the discount pharmacies (Walmart, etc...?) It wasn't very expensive at the vet ($21 for a month) but if he does end up needing it for the long haul, cheaper is always better!

Good news then. Thyroid can be easily controlled. I've never heard of a once a month treatment for it. Interesting!

 

Oh, no, the thyrosyn is a daily pill! (Twice daily actually) We are going to re-test everything after a month is all....

[CaliforniaGreys]

OK... We went in to see the Dr. today; and she believes that this may be a hypothyroid issue. Frank's thyroid tested quite low, even for a greyhound. While that doesn't quite explain all of the thirst and peeing, she said it can account for some protein in the urine. He also had some muscle enzymes, which might be explained by more vigorous than usual exercise. Thre was no evidence of a UTI. I am working on another theory for the excessive drinking/peeing: the discount chicken parts from Albertsons. The peeing started around the same time and Dr. Beth agrees it could be from the saline solution they sometimes inject in meat. Since switching out the meat for no additive products three days ago, I believe we are seeing a decrease in Frank looking for water. I am measuring his intake and today he had 5 cups. No potty accidents today and he went outside a more normal (for him) number of times.

 

So... We are starting the thyrosyn, doing a one month trial and then we will repeat the tests. Dr. Beth says there still may be a possible kidney issue responsible for the protein loss; but his kidney blood values were absolutely normal so we are starting with the easiest thing first. Wish us luck! I forgot to ask for a copy of the test results, but I need to bring in his insurance forms tomorrow so I'll get them then. The office was pretty swamped today.

 

Oh, one other question, is thryosyn available at one of the discount pharmacies (Walmart, etc...?) It wasn't very expensive at the vet ($21 for a month) but if he does end up needing it for the long haul, cheaper is always better!

Good news then. Thyroid can be easily controlled. I've never heard of a once a month treatment for it. Interesting!

 

Oh, no, the thyrosyn is a daily pill! (Twice daily actually) We are going to re-test everything after a month is all....

Leave it to me to mis-understand Never heard of that drug though

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

I just googled it, it is levothyroxine, same thing as Soloxine.... Just a different brand name!

Edited November 18, 2008 by FullMetalFrank

[patricia]

Did your sweet Frankie have a FULL thyroid panel sent to MSU? The only reason I am saying this is because many greys have an almost nonexistent T-4 and are NOT hypothyroid and if he is not...then you can run the risk of multiple problems if they are placed on Soloxine without really needing it. Just bringing this up because we had a full panel sent in for the Flashman and he is one of the few "true" hypothyroid babes according to Dr. Couto. Also did they check Frankie's blood pressure? Sending hugs to the handsome little man.

Edited November 18, 2008 by patricia

[Guest gretzky]

This is an article by Dr. Stack on Hypothyroidism.

 

Dr. Stack

 

She mentions Soloxine in here but I saw something else published that says Greys typically do best on Soloxine specifically over other meds. I can't find it right now but I'll keep looking. Wonder was on thyroxine from her old vet and it did nothing. Current vet switched her to Soloxine and it was night and day.

 

Hope Frank is on the road to feeling better.

[CaliforniaGreys]

This is an article by Dr. Stack on Hypothyroidism.

 

Dr. Stack

 

She mentions Soloxine in here but I saw something else published that says Greys typically do best on Soloxine specifically over other meds. I can't find it right now but I'll keep looking. Wonder was on thyroxine from her old vet and it did nothing. Current vet switched her to Soloxine and it was night and day.

 

Hope Frank is on the road to feeling better.

Same experience here, only it was Pala Tech( I think that's what it was called, they were chewables) vs Soloxine

[Guest MAXNAV]

My vet always recommended Soloxine over other meds. My collie did wonderful on it, and now Navigator's been on it for about 9 months, and he's doing terrific. Once you figure out the dosage, ask about purchasing the entire bottle (if it's small enough). We get 250 of Soloxine for Navigator for about $50. If I were to get it monthly, it would cost much more, as they charge a dispensing fee.

[Guest FullMetalFrank]

According to the search I did, the thyrosyn is another name brand (not a generic) of the drug levothyroxine, which is what Soloxine is... So it is essentially the same thing. I can't remember the article I looked at but it did mention to use one of the name brands (there were three or four of them) as they seem to work better than generic. I will ask Dr. Beth about it when I see her. His BP was fine, as was most everything else except for the protein in the urine and the thyroid. I will ask if they did a full panel as I am not sure. We do have the veterinary school here at Oregon State University if we need anything more extensive done, they take patients thru referrals and they are only about 15 minutes away (yay!!!)

Right now I am trying to have faith in what his vet is recommending, as I don't really have anything else to go on. If at the end of the month he is still drinking like a fish, peeing a ton, and has protein in his urine, we will have to go on to look at other possible issues. We have the fact that Frank is NOT a sick dog at this point in our favor...

[Anne]

I have a hound on 0.05 thyrosyn and they cost me about $55.00 for a 1000 of them and that lasts for a bit over a year for her. This is from my vet.

Sug gets her thyroid tested yearly and she's been on the same dose for about 5 or 6 years now. All fingers crossed that this takes care of the problems!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Anne

[patricia]

If memory serves me correctly...I think that there are only 1 or 2 places that does the full thyroid panel. Flashy's blood was drawn...put on ice and sent by Fed Ex to Michigan State. Glad your little man is feeling well.