Drops Of Blood In Bile Vomit (we've Been To Vet)

[Batmom]

Didn't say you had to -- or should -- feed her kibble.

 

Guess I'm just mystified as to why you wouldn't change what appears to be making the dog ill on an ongoing basis, and causing significant veterinary expense.

[Guest mandm]

I'd go with cooked meat and potatoes. Has she had a TBD panel?

I've had 2 TBD greyhounds. Both had GI problems. I don't know if it's related or just a coincidence. But I'd second Burpdog & get a TBD panel if you haven't already done that.

[Guest Peanut]

Didn't say you had to -- or should -- feed her kibble.

 

Guess I'm just mystified as to why you wouldn't change what appears to be making the dog ill on an ongoing basis, and causing significant veterinary expense.

 

i tried kibble because she was being so picky on certain things. the kibble is what caused the blood in her vomit... there was none before going back to kibble.

 

SO... the kibble is causing the problem, too.

 

AND since cancer feeds of carbohydrates and sugars, if that is what is happening with her lymph nods, I'm not going to feed the cancer by giving kibble. Sorry, if you disagree with that.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Peanut

[Batmom]

Um .... I didn't say you had to or should feed kibble. Isn't that what I just said above?

 

I do disagree with feeding a dog with the type of gastric problems you describe a raw diet, particularly one that includes bone. That's asking for more trouble and more vet bills. It's science, plain and simple.

 

I also disagree with continuing to feed a dog things that make the dog vomit and/or that don't digest coming out the other end.

 

I don't know anybody who would agree with continuing to feed those things.

 

I hope your dog improves.

[VinnieAndRexsMom]

I hope you get some answers with her ultrasound.

 

She is a sweetie

[Guest Peanut]

Yes, TBD panel was done and fine....

 

We tried the suggestion of cooked meat and potatoes.... she threw the potatoes on the floor and ate the meat no matter how much I mixed it together. She's pretty good at pull out what she wants. Someone else had suggested pasta and that's been a hit!

 

As for the raw diet, we are giving mainly non-bone items because that is what she'll take. She's never had a problem with the raw diet, other than the recent picky eating. The vet does not feel like the diet is the cause of the problems and has instructed us to feed her regular diet knowing what we feed. We are following his advice.

 

tonight she excitedly ate pasta, cooked chicken, yogurt, cottage cheese, and chicken liver (1).

 

I want to make sure you understand she has not puked since we went to the vet over a week ago. BUT, is back to being picky which was the start of the puking before. She does best on the cooked bland diet -- as far as willinglyness to eat it. so, my question would be how long could she go on this meal plan??? indefinately??

[Batmom]

Add a multivitamin and she could eat it forever, as long as she's getting enough calories.

[Guest greytexplorer]

Batmom> what kind/brand of multivitamin, and where do you get it?

[Batmom]

Multivitamin: Any decent quality canine multivitamin. IIRC vetamerica.com has a big selection. The ones in my closet right now are Vetri-science Canine Plus. I prefer when they say just how much of which vitamin/mineral/etc. is in each tab. Good for when dog is eating a limited-ingredient, possibly not-very-balanced diet for an extended period of time.

 

That said, you can feed a *healthy* dog a limited-ingredient diet for a couple of months, at least, without getting into serious nutritional imbalances. Again, a *healthy* *adult* dog who shows no sign of anything ailments except possible food allergies or intolerances.

 

Peanut, FWIW, if you extend the bland diet for awhile, you might see some dry coat and might want to see if she can tolerate a fish oil cap or two.

[tbhounds]

Sorry to hear that Peanut has been sick. Has your vet suggested to you that she might be suffering from IBD? Granted, the swollen lymph nodes are not a IBD symptom (with exception of the mesenteric LN's) but, intermittent vomiting, soft stool, listlessness and weight loss is.

I would get an abdominal radiography +/- an ultrasound and a basic blood panel done (looking for lower blood proteins). Maybe while she's there they can aspirate her lymph nodes too.

In the meantime maybe you can try and not feed chicken and try to feed a novel protein source such as rabbit, ostrich etc.. Your dog may have an intolerance to chicken proteins--as I'm finding out it's becoming all to common. Sorry, I didn't read all of the replies--has she been de-wormed recently?

Maybe she should be back on the carafate and start on Flagyl (metronidazole). Hope she feels better soon!

[Guest LindsaySF]

If a dog has a potential ulcer and has some bloody vomit, I would not feed raw anything, with or without bone. You're adding to the bacterial load, adding to irritation (if feeding bone), and that is the diet that seems to have either caused or worsened her problem.

 

If you've been feeding mostly chicken/turkey, I would switch to something very different, that she hasn't had. If you don't change anything, seems like you're going to keep getting what you got.

 

If meds helped her, ask for a longer course. 10 days is short in the scheme of a serious irritation.

 

Has she had an abdominal x-ray?

I agree with this post.

 

 

AND since cancer feeds of carbohydrates and sugars, if that is what is happening with her lymph nods, I'm not going to feed the cancer by giving kibble. Sorry, if you disagree with that.

If you really want to avoid all carbs, you should not be giving her pasta or potatoes either.

 

But I really think you don't need to worry about "feeding" a cancer you aren't even sure she has. Worry about giving foods she can tolerate first, even if it is kibble, then worry about potential cancer later.

 

With the swollen lymph nodes, slight fever, and history of feeding raw, my guess would be an infection anyway. Did they test her for worms or culture her stool for bacteria?

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Edited July 28, 2008 by LindsaySF

[Guest Peanut]

Sorry to hear that Peanut has been sick. Has your vet suggested to you that she might be suffering from IBD? Granted, the swollen lymph nodes are not a IBD symptom (with exception of the mesenteric LN's) but, intermittent vomiting, soft stool, listlessness and weight loss is.

 

Sassy doesn't present as IBD...

 

Her stools are normal, only soft because of being on a bland diet. NORMAL for the diet. She is also not listless. She is her silly, playful, 9 year old self.

 

Maybe she should be back on the carafate and start on Flagyl (metronidazole).

 

She was already on a course of Flagyl.

 

Sorry, I didn't read all of the replies--has she been de-wormed recently?

 

She's parasite free... Checked that 1 1/2 wks ago.

 

In the meantime maybe you can try and not feed chicken and try to feed a novel protein source such as rabbit, ostrich etc.. Your dog may have an intolerance to chicken proteins--as I'm finding out it's becoming all to common.

 

She's been eating chicken of some sort or another for YEARS without a problem. And really, the vomiting that comes doesn't matter what protein I feed her. She is doing fine on the boiled chicken breasts. I don't want to play around with the proteins because if it is an ulcer we increase the chance for flair up.

 

I would get an abdominal radiography +/- an ultrasound and a basic blood panel done (looking for lower blood proteins). Maybe while she's there they can aspirate her lymph nodes too.

 

The next recommended step by the vet is the ultrasound and then a barium swallow, if needed. However, she doesn't present like their is a blockage -- and those are the vets words. He doesn't want to do anything with the lymph nodes at this point as they are only slightly swollen.

 

With the swollen lymph nodes, slight fever, and history of feeding raw, my guess would be an infection anyway. Did they test her for worms or culture her stool for bacteria?

 

She has been tested for worms and bacteria in her stool --- absolutely normal poop!!

 

Symptoms are unrelated to a raw diet... if they were related, there would be a lot of pets out there with fevers and swollen lymph nodes.

[Batmom]

Welllllllll ..... Dogs can and do get bacterial infections -- sometimes lethal ones -- from raw meat. Many folks are fond of saying that dogs can't be adversely affected by salmonella, for example, but in fact they can. They're just *more* resistant to some strains than humans are. And a sick dog is going to be less resistant than a healthy one.

 

If a dog has gastric troubles that aren't resolved by a quick fast and a couple days bland food, I generally recommend what resembles a human cancer diet -- everything designed to reduce the bacterial and digestive load on the system. Freshly cooked so as to minimize bacteria, low residue so as to reduce gastric irritation. That way the system's resources can devote themselves to fighting whatever might be wrong rather than having to mount defenses against new invaders.

[Guest mandm]

I fed my sick greyhound cooked meat & bone meal (human grade, not the garden stuff) for a very long time. That's all, no carbs, nothing but meat & bone meal. The bone meal firmed the stool just like bone. Then I put him on raw. Actually, he digested the raw much better than cooked, but they are all different. Among other things, he had SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth).

[Hawthorn]

In the meantime maybe you can try and not feed chicken and try to feed a novel protein source such as rabbit, ostrich etc.. Your dog may have an intolerance to chicken proteins--as I'm finding out it's becoming all to common.

 

She's been eating chicken of some sort or another for YEARS without a problem. And really, the vomiting that comes doesn't matter what protein I feed her. She is doing fine on the boiled chicken breasts. I don't want to play around with the proteins because if it is an ulcer we increase the chance for flair up.

 

I don't have experience with the problems you're having, but I just wanted to add FWIW that the fact that she's eaten chicken for years without a problem doesn't necessarily mean that she's not NOW allergic to it. Many years ago I went through food allergy testing and ALL the things I was allergic to were things I'd eaten for years without a problem. In fact, I was told that it is the things we eat a lot of that we're most likely to become allergic to.

 

More recently, my cat suddenly started being sick after eating and the vet said it was possible that he had become allergic to the chicken he'd been eating for months and to feed him a different protein for a while, which we did, and he stopped being sick; after a while we gradually reintroduced the chicken and he was fine.