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I know he finished his worming in his foster home. I can talk to my vet. I plan to get a weight again Thursday. They already know I'm obsessive (based on Sadie's care). So I can mention a stool test.

I think he lost 3 pounds with his foster family because they told me he was 73lbs but he was only 70. And he lost a pound in just a week when I cut back to 7 cups! What work-ups have been done on him? How long has he been out of the racing kennel? My DonnieDude runs on the "thin" side, always has, according to the trainer and owner (he came right from the racing kennel). What do you consider thin? Has anyone been in touch with his former trainer about his weight? All the trainers that I have contacted about my hounds have been more than willing to help me. No work-ups since he came -off the track and into the group and he had that vet work done. Meaning my vet didn't do anything at our new pet appt. I had Kevin about a week at that appt. He was on a haul that came-up around Nov. 10th. I think he came off the track in November too. I am not sure how to contact the trainer- greyhound-data lists the owner and he raced almost exclusively in Pensacola. The dogs on his haul were in very bad shape. I believe two either did not survive for when the haul came or did not survive the trip. I believe he might be a bit leaner than many, certainly a different body type than Sadie. But, I consider thin hip and shoulder bones protruding more than nubs, seeing all the vertebrae, seeing all the ribs. You can also see a narrower chest and muscles in the hind end, no fat pads on the chest, no fat only skin over the ribs, and seeing the muscle fibers through the skin. I didn't know you could be ineligible either!! I must have done something bad and not know it! Will email you. I don't think I can attach until we email back and forth but I'm not sure how this works.

When I put some Innova or Orijen in his Kong he gasses up the joint in the evening! I tried to start a photobucket account and they told me I was ineligible???? So i have no pictures on the internet to post. Otherwise I would have already posted a picture (or a zillion!).

I think he lost 3 pounds with his foster family because they told me he was 73lbs but he was only 70. And he lost a pound in just a week when I cut back to 7 cups!

Then that begs the question of what to feed. I literally spent days researching foods and thought i was going to have to be committed I drove myself so crazy with it. I chose this one and he transitioned onto it so smoothly, except for all of the above. It is pretty comparable to the premium kibbles calorie wise. It is lower in protein. I'm thinking he's starting to look good but yes, needs a few more. I guess I just don't want him to backslide.

Sadie ate kibble plus home cooking for wet. She ate as much as we could get her to. That usually ended-up being about 3-4 cups a days of premium kibble plus a cup of wet. She basically self-regulated how much to eat. She knew how to stay within a pound or two of her ideal weight. She pooped twice a day unless we went for a long walk and then she would go twice just on the walk. She was a smaller dog at about 63-65lbs when she was healthy. As she got much more ill at the end she pooped more frequently. She lost a lot of weight as everything fell apart health-wise at the end. Kevin is about 75lbs. He was 70lbs when he came to us. His racing weight was 77lbs. He was being fed 2.25 cups twice a day of cooked hamburger and potato a 2/1 ratio. He was food crazed and the behaviorist for the adoption group and the vet reccommended feeding lunch and increasing his food. He was eating around 5 cups a day when i brought him to the vet. I had already essentially transitioned him onto HK. The vet said because he hadn't gained he may need to go as high 9. I said that's ok. He said yes. We worked up to that. He got that split into 3 meals and gained. So we cut back to 1 cup at lunch. He lost a pound. I think cutting back on lunch and feeding more meat with a mix of thrive and embark may be what I ultimately do. I just got him some chicken livers to add. A little bit. He seems to do better with some extra protein added- less hungry and i think he goes out less. The reason I wondered if it was food volume/type v. anxiety is because he's been willing to hold it for long periods (like today because it's nasty out) and because he went out twice not long before being crated. And he was crated less than four hours. I also thought I saw some behaviors that might indicate separation anxiety (high pitched barking or crying when one person leaves the room and the door is closed, sitting and staring at the door when someone leaves, excitement sometimes when he sees you even if he just comes into the room (maybe this is just cute), crying in his crate if he can't see you, following from room to room-but that has lessened to only if you're in the kitchen!). but when he's been crated you come back to find him relaxed, often roached and he doesn't necessarily immediately jump to his feet. So i figure he's ok in the crate. I suspected he just had to go, just wanted to be sure.

Wonderful!!

McSheltie knows a lot about this stuff. I am certainly no expert but Kevin was getting more and more dry, flaky skin lately as the month we've had him progressed. I think it is a combination of his blowing his track/FL coat and growing one for New England and the food change. And the dry heat from the woodstove. He scratches a little. He had a bath at Petco by his first foster home (mid-November, right off the hauler) so we weren't going to bathe him, just keep brushing with the furminator. We considered a water-only bath so as not to strip his oils with a nice rub from a zoom groom. But then he soiled his crate and laid in it so he got a nice bath last night and he feels like silk and no more flaky skin. We'll see if that holds-up or if he develops it again. He's even more handsome now! I've also been giving him eggs and sardines. I plan to get some salmon oil for him and start adding it slowly. So it could just be the food changes. It could be thyroid too. We went through the thryoid issues it with Sadie- and yes, full panel is absolutely necessary. B/c Phoebe's not a grey you don't need to worry about the grey-specific levels. But, food allergy is a possibility too. I think Sadie had a problem with corn (vomited and skin problems). We gave her Fresh Factors by Springtime, Inc. Supposedly that helps with coat. We gave it to her for her joints along with another supplement. But she always had an amazing white coat, softer and thicker than a bunny rabbit's so skin conditions showed on her belly/chest and rump. I have also heard that stress can cause the flaky skin- but usually that is when dogs are coming off the track and I wonder if it has to do with their coats changing and foods changing as much as stress. You likely can put your finger on a more specific explanation, but as others have said, there are so many possibilities. Good luck with her tests. I'm sure they'll take a skin scraping if they suspect mites or a similar condition. Stay warm!

He's the same, I think, although we haven't kept them out long enough for him to do anything aside from chew the appendages off. That was before he learned to go right for the kill!!

First, let me just say that the volume and frequency of poop is incredible. I rode horses growing up. He gives them run or their money. If I could use it to power my house. . . I think it is the flax. As far as comparing him to Sadie- it is extremely difficult not to compare them because they are so different- it's fascinating! I thought Sadie was relaxed. But Kevin wins the prize. Very little phases him. He got his first bath yesterday as a result of the obvious. With Sadie it was an ordeal - Kevin it was nothing. I think it's more bothersome to me to take a shower! He doesn't get upset by gunshots or metal noises. He is a total lover. He's not a picky eater. Sadie was like having another person in the house and she did her own thing. Kevin is interested in what we're doing all the time. They're just different. But one thing- she didn't poop as much!!

As for sensitivity-I think his stomach is mostly sensitive to kibble. Husband is hot on the kibble because he's annoyed with all the pooping and peeing and this just was the topper. Maybe i can mix the HK less loose of an oatmeal consistency? He can have peanut butter. I'm sure at a point it would give him the big D. Cottage cheese seems to give him gas. I think some of his food frozen in a kong is a great idea. and maybe a little PB too. Sounds like a gross combo to me but I bet he likes it. My vet told me that he often sees dogs having trouble gaining weight on raw diets and some need to switch off because they can't maintain. He told me to feed more. Give him lunch. He gets almost double what he was eating when he came to us. Vet said it's ok. He gained 5lbs. Last week he lost 1lb. I had cut back his lunches because I was satisfied with his pace of gaining. But i upped it again and started add-ins and I think he's up again. He's probably not too far from where we want him. I'll see if we can dig out from the 2ft of snow and make it to the vet tomorrow for a weight check. McSheltie, do you think maybe trying to feed half Embark and half Thrive might be a good idea? Grain for weight and less flax? Also, I checked-out that site. I haven't laughed-out loud like that in a while. Very funny. Thanks! The accompanying illustrations were priceless.

As for dangerous behavior- He chews-up the plastic of the squeaker and even pieces of stuffing and then i see him chew-chew-chewing. Like he's going to keep masticating it until he's satisfied that he likes the texture and then will swallow it. By then it's in small pieces and I'm fishing it out of his mouth not waiting for him to swallow. Is it possible he might spit it out- I suppose but I'm not sure if I want to find out. He's had some chew toys that are supposed to be "tough" rubber or plastic and then I find missing nubbins or that he chewed the top off and i grab it from him but am not sure that what I have in my hand it all it. So I think he will swallow plastic, etc. He chews the wads of my hair that have come from the lint trap he found in the garbage in the laundry room (gross, I know!). I try to get treats to him as soon as possible when i pull something out of his mouth or give him something else. I'm trying to remember if his foster family said he plays fetch. I think that was another dog we considered. My husband throws a stuffie for him in the backyard sometimes. But Kevin hates the cold (being from FL New England is quite a change) and doesn't like to be outside much. We named him Kevin after the character on "The Office" who loves food and hates exercise. Also, question about the kitchen towel chew toys- does your dog ever go after good towels (i.e., taking license to chew all towels)? Thanks for the suggestions!

Grain is not an evil ingredient. For a large number of dogs it is not necessary. But some do better with it. I would prefer they got their nutrition without it. In large amounts (i.e. cheaper dry foods) it puts a strain on the renal system. It should never be in a food as a protein source. I find as a generalization that Shelties do better on a food with a little grain and the GHs do better on a food without. But as I said, that is just a generalization. Honest Kitchen is an awesome product. If he is having solid stools and no gas I wouldn't even think about changing it! You don't know how lucky you are! Thrive has no flaxseed. It has quinoa, which is a grain. But it is a whole, easily digestible grain. BUT... before you change the kind of HK you are feeding, go to two a day feedings and figure out his routine. At lunch time give him a frozen Kong. That will keep him occupied for quite a while. You had the perfect dog before Kevin and you have been spoiled A little pooping and peeing in the house in the beginning is normal. My husband is laughing. You nailed it. We did have the perfect dog. We told her from the start she was the perfect dog and she lived-up to it. She was totally different than Kevin. He is a love and much more relaxed than her in many situations, totally affectionate and silly, but she was our heart dog. And she rarely soiled the house! We will change to two meals. We did have to feed Thrive in addition to Embark b/c we had gotten low on the Embark and the store was out of Embark. He did fine. What do you freeze in your Kongs?

We've had him one month yesterday. He came to us on hamburger and potato diet b/c he did not do well on the Purina Pro Plan kibble the adoption group provided the foster family and he had the big D. So once on Hamburger and potato he had good poop. In fact when we got him he pooped very little poops and not often. He almost seemed constipated. But he was also 7lbs below his racing weight. the worst part was it was incomplete. I killed myself trying to decide what to feed and settled on HK. Yes, we're going to wean him off the lunch and consider switching food. we may be more diligent about adding kibble (orijen did not agree and innova hasn't either).

Well, we're upset and we're not. We're not taking anything out on him but we're understandably not happy. I will have to review the ingredient lists again. I wondered about the flax because he goes poop nearly everytime he goes out and pees. I thought I saw flax in all the formulas. I am feeding a grain free formula with some add-ins like eggs, sardines, etc. McSheltie, What's your stance on grains? I was thinking of feeding twice a day and splitting his lunch up between breakfast and dinner. The biggest downside to that is he is food crazed and feeding three times a day keeps him calmer too. I guess a small snack might be enough.

I left Kevin in his crate today for the longest amount of time yet- a bit less than 4 hours. I let him out around 11. he peed. I fed him lunch early, around 11:30. My husband stopped home for lunch and I was already running late for my appointment so he let Kevin out and saw him pee and poop. He stuffed a kong and left Kevin crated around 12:30 or so. When he got home from work a bit after 4 he found Kevin had peed and pooped in his crate. The poop was firm. They went outside and he peed and pooped again. He feels it was not fresh. I think you can't really tell. But, even Sadie with her kidney failure only had one accident in the year before she passed. And the house has all the windows open with a huge storm about to drop 14" of snow on the way. Needless to say no one is happy but Kevin. My husband is beside himself as to why this happened. So, the questions are whether this was separation anxiety. He's not alone a lot because I work from home. But he's been left several times for up to two and a half hours. He's fine. Relaxed in his crate when you come in. Or. Did he really have to go? He went twice right before he was crated and he's 3 years old. Seems strange. I wonder if his diet has something to do with it. He's on Honest Kitchen, a dehydrated raw food. It's very wet when re-hyrdated. And he's eating a ton of it to gain some weight. When we tried adding kibble he gets horrible gas and even had a little of the big D. So we stick with what agrees with him. So he goes out a lot, but that's also because if he's pacing or near the door I ask if he wants out. I try to prevent accidents. (And he's only gone once it the house, not sure if it was marking or he had to go but I caught him right away and put him outside). I'm not sure if he actually has to go. But if he does go outside he will do something. He never just goes for fun. So if you think it was just he had to go, should we change his diet? And, suggestions??? I'm at a loss- I've never had a dog soil inside the crate before.

excellent!

Yeah, I don't quite consider this "aggression". I'd call it resource guarding, too. Resource guarding, luckily, has a very simple solution: Trade Up! Trading up teaches the dog to enjoy giving up items. My dogs have stolen REALLY high-value items before (think...chicken bone on the streets...), and they give it up without a care in the world because of their past experiences with trading up. They know they're going to get something better and/or get whatever the heck it was back (by the way, this is the foundation for the "Give" behavior) Good luck and keep practicing! Yep to the above. I'd just add that if there's a history of Kevin having exciting things that he loves taken away from him and not given back, you can't really blame him for growling. I totally understand that you need to get dangerous things away from him but you have to realise that to a dog this is incomprehensible and just seems like mean 'monkey' behaviour (we call ourselves 'monkeys' in relation to our dogs since our behaviour patterns are far closer to primates than canines). If it were me, I'd make sure that 1) I had some really, really tough stuffies, and 2) I always had one in reserve. Try Go-Dog stuffies which have 'chew guard technology', or Tuffy Toys, which have multiple layers of tough fabric and seven layers of stitching, plus squeaker protection pockets. But be wary of toys which are 'skinnies' with no stuffing. During my research into dog toys I came across several stories of dogs swallowing them whole! I'd also teach 'drop it' as a matter of urgency, but this still includes trading up. Trading up is an excellent way to deal with resource guarding since it's a win/win result. I will look at these. We have been looking for tough ones. We do give him stuffies sometimes and then take them immediately when he starts doing something dangerous if "ah-ah" doesn't get him to stop the dangerous behavior ( that works for a few seconds). We hoped he'd learn to play nice with them. He does respond to "leave it". We had a huge plastic tote filled with stuffies when he came. It probably, without exaggeration, had more than 25 toys in it. We have more "unharmed ones" in a bag in the basement. A decade of Sadie's toys. But he took them out within days. He got more and more proficient at destruction. We even bought 12 new cheap ones. Within 5 minutes they were toast. All of them. I saved most of the wounded hoping it was a phase and I could patch them up. We bought one allegedly tough one. It lasted a minute. His goal with them isn't to play now but chew a hole and get out the squeaker and kill it. I just can't imagine a fabric that will stand-up to his jaws of steel. But I will try them. He does, BTW still have his big bones- the ones that are about 2 feet long. He doesn't kill those stuffies. Also- Fourofem-What a small world!

Poor sweet baby. Thank you for all that you are doing!

I just noticed where you were from. I can almost guantee that's my Kevin. What group did you go through? CT Greyhound Adoption-GPA. Wouldn't that be funny? Small world.

When we changed our boy's name to Kevin we were told they once had a Kevin in the group that went to VA. Perhaps that's your boy?? Too cute! If I could figure out a way to post pictures without already having to have them on the internet, I would put pics of my Kevin up (not a fan of FB and like sites). As for kongs and buster cubes, chews and antlers he's fine! If it involves food it's ok. But if it squeaks . . . But he did well with trading-up training tonight. Thanks everyone for all the suggestions!

Thanks! As for CT I was looking for eastern or even middle (southern is best). RI is great too- most of the state is closer than western CT. I'm in both all the time.

Have been thinking of them all day. Hoping for good news.

My husband reports that he put at least one paw on top of it and his mouth on it as well and growled. He doesn't believe that it was play. But does believe it is odd that he would not guard food at all (and food is his reason for being!). Worked with him a bit on it tonight. when the food comes out he couldn't care less about the stuffie.

Maybe Swifthounds was saying that by not pursuing criminal charges against people that adoption groups are aware have neglected/abused dogs that is "encouraging" abuse?? Unfortunately, it is a double edged sword for adoption groups. In reality they must provide enough evidence that it will rise to the level of probable cause in order for the local animal control officer/police department to seek a warrant. Many CT ACOs do not even realize that they have the ability to seek arrest warrants. The offenses for which the person may be charged are, unfortunately, most often misdemeanors. The warrant needs to be drafted, it needs to be presented to the prosecutor and he/she needs to sign-off on it and it needs to go to a judge to be signed. If that all happens, then it may be executed. Then the accused makes court appearances. Charges will sometimes be dismissed or nolled but most often will move forward and the defendant will have the opportunity to accept or reject a plea deal offered or go to trial. But, if the charges are less than a C felony and the accused has no record he/she should be eligible for a pre-trial diversionary program called Accelerated Rehabilitation. And It would be difficult for a judge to deny by law. Successful completion of the program acts as a dismissal of the charges. (All of this is not entirely formulaic and depends upon the circumstances). All the while the adoption group that brought the charges is involved, even if the involvement is not intense. It takes time and energy away from their focus of placing dogs. But I think the primary deterrent perhaps to seeking prosecution is that it may prevent some people who have been abusive from surrendering their hounds. If they believe charges are forthcoming owners may fight surrender and force seizure which takes time or if the problem has not come to anyone's attention they may just let the dog(s) die. Either way the dogs are in more danger if people are afraid to look for help for the dogs. Please note I am not discouraging prosecution, only stating that it is a difficult position for the adoption group to be in. (And no, I do not represent any group). I am happy to hear initially good news for Chase and will keep checking this thread.