3greytjoys
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The thing about only muzzling 'when you aren't closely supervising' is that a fight can break out in the blink of an eye. Even if you're standing right there, there is very little you can do, except get in the middle and possibly put yourself in danger. Other people can chime in with their horror stories, but just to give you an idea...
The safest thing to do, really, is muzzle both dogs. ... it's too volatile to risk it.
Agree. The Greyhound "bear fight" occurred 2' from me inside the house. There were no food bowls or toys out.
IIRC, I was washing my hands as the hounds were gathering in "anticipation" of me about to begin measuring out meals. A small female foster attacked our big male. There was bloodshed, but I was able to stop them before serious injury.
Another experience (different breeds) happened during early childhood. One of our family dogs killed our other dog because he wanted his own bone, plus our Labrador's bone too. That was a terrorizing early lesson about keeping dogs' high value resources safely separated.
Elsewhere a Greyhound's body was ripped to shreds by another dog while being supervised by staff members. It was a miracle that dog survived the extensive injuries, surgeries, and long ICU hospital care. I'll stop there.
I agree with you that dogs enjoy mouthing each other in play; however, as Alicia wrote, Piper and Abby are too volatile now. Excessive mouthing/teeth do appear to be an issue for Piper and Abby. Greyhound muzzles are considered differently compared to "all breed" muzzles. Racing Greyhounds are used to wearing turnout basket muzzles for their own safety when they are out of their crate. They can still drink water and pant freely. Greyhounds have constantly changing kennel mates during their career, plus they're required to wear muzzles to race with other hounds. Muzzles are a great tool for forever owners to use when needed, such as new transitions, nail trims, home wound care, veterinary care, to prevent a young dog from dangerous chewing, multi-hound elimination turnouts, play dates, and multi-hound car rides. If you decide to keep Piper, and after they have more time to develop new boundaries, hopefully muzzles would be needed less and less.
Just a clarification re: Piper's collar (love her name
). I think I only noticed her martingale collar, sans separate ID collar. Great if you have an extra flat ID collar for her, if not maybe the adoption group will loan her one so she'll be wearing ID when she's out of her crate. -
My deepest condolences to you during this most difficult time of grief after losing Jacob. You must have been doing a great job keeping him healthy for so many years.
I'm sorry to see you've experienced much loss during recent years.
I so remember the unique extreme heartache of being dogless after having multiple dogs for 25 years. My heart breaks for you. Please take good care of yourself. In time, I imagine Jacob would want you to find joy in discovering some new experiences.
Godspeed your heart boy, Jacob. May his spirit live in your heart forever.
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Judy, our deepest heartfelt sympathy to you, Mike and Kevin for your sad loss of Arrow.
We always enjoyed your pictures and updates about your silly boy, Arrow. Remembering his recent birthday celebration photos brings a heartfelt smile.
Feels like the end of an era with the Valentine's litter all together over the bridge. They are all missed here on GT and will always be remembered fondly. You are all in our supportive thoughts as Arrow rejoins his siblings running free.
Godspeed Arrow.
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From what I can see in the video, it looks like in general they are playful and want to be together, but sometimes one is nipping or pushing a bit too hard and that causes a squabble. It doesn't seem serious, but there always could be that one time where it could progress to a fight, and with that thin greyhound skin that tears so easily you could end up with some serious vet bills. So honestly if it were me personally I would still keep them both muzzled for a while to give them time to get used to each other and for them to learn each others' boundaries. I think they definitely have potential to have a great relationship, but may need some time to settle in more together. There's a chance that nothing big would ever happen, but after having seen some pretty scary photos of hound wounds after a spat, I prefer to err on the side of caution.
Thank you for posting the video. I agree with using muzzles on both hounds now, and whenever they are out of their crates together during their transition. (Never muzzle only one dog because the muzzled dog is not able to defend herself in a tiff.) Greyhounds are muzzled for safety during turnouts at kennels, and later when in multi-dog homes during play turnouts, etc.
Also, it can be dangerous to leave a martingale collar on hounds when inside the house or in a fenced yard.
Best to remove the martingale collar whenever the dog is not being leash walked with his/her adult human.
Dogs' teeth, paws, claws or anything else can catch on the collar's D-ring, either harming their playmate, or harming the dog wearing the collar.
Any tags should only be placed on the side hardware of a martingale (not on the big D-ring) to help prevent a choking hazard.
(Flat ID collars left on 24/7 are good, but best to remove the flat ID collar whenever hound is locked inside a crate.)
Just a thought: might help to ask your adoption group if they would allow you a week or so to evaluate the transition before requiring the decision re: adoption. These girls are beautiful and hopefully they will adjust nicely in time.
ETA: Yes, I'd be concerned about your mother-in-law too. Absolutely muzzle when they are together. Hounds often stand up tall on their hind legs when in a fight. I've had to break up two hounds who were fighting like bears by placing a tall chair-back between their faces. I held the chair by the legs to keep myself at a safer distance away. Very important to keep all things of high doggie value (food, toys, etc.) away/separate during new transition periods. BTW, both dogs ended up becoming good friends later but it did take time.
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Tons of positve thoughts and prayers for Duke... and your family.
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Lots of great survival solutions in this thread. Hope Dino is doing okay tonight?
If others' hounds are still having trouble...
Loud air fans turned on the highest speed are a great alternative for people who don't have white noise machines.
Loud jazz music is very helpful since it contains many musical changes/instruments; plus there aren't silent breaks between verbal sentences that usually occur during TV programs.
Melatonin helps our hounds too, especially when given about 1 hour prior to fireworks.
Happy holiday weekend...
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I agree with Fruitycake. I would simply keep play times separate, especially if the hound is a temporary foster.
IMO, a long rope (or leash) hanging from the collar of a running Greyhound risks very serious injuries. Dogs trip themselves, tumble and crash badly when dragging leashes/lines. If coupled with a collar (especially a martingale), a Greyhound could choke or break his/her neck. Even if a human were able to get to the dog in time to attempt to release collar/neck pressure, the dog's neck and throat could be damaged.
(We even remove martingale collars for fenced group Greyhound play dates to prevent other dog's paws, nails, or teeth from getting caught in their playmate's martingale D-ring.)
If a short rope is required for some reason, maybe a 4 inch rope could be fastened to the (non-choking) side hardware of the collar (or harness) but it wouldn't help capture a 30-40 mph speeding Greyhound anyway. Probably much easier to separate zoomie play so each hound is comfortable.
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That's great news!
Might keep in mind that if you're neighborhood experiences fireworks, it might not be the most fair doggie trial time (from your new girl's perspective), but I imagine she'll be delighted to be in her (potential) forever home with her very own sister.
(We try to time Greyhound potty outings before and after fireworks. If fireworks noise is a possibility, it's helpful to keep new hounds leashed even if doing a quick outing within a fenced backyard.)
Good luck, and we'll look forward to reading about her successful home trial!
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Jack (and Charlie)
:paw forever in our hearts...Thank you for sharing memories of Jack with us.
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It could have been play behavior, but play can turn into prey behavior in an instant. Good to remember that Greyhounds are a hunting and racing breed. Similar to a_daerr's example, I've seen a pack of 25-30 hounds join a fight within about 3 seconds. Greyhounds can run up to 45 mph. There is no way humans can run across a dog park in time to prevent an attack from happening.
Our very first Greyhound (cat-safe while indoors) exhibited quiet, hunting prey behavior while outside in a dog park setting (sight targeting, chasing closely, mouthing the neck, and taking down a smaller dog). Greyhounds often consider it (prey) "game on" while running in an outside environment with other smaller animals. Thankfully, we stopped visiting all breed public dog parks before the worst happened.
Next hound was adopted through a different Greyhound group who doesn't allow their hounds to attend public dog parks for many reasons: e.g., Greyhound's physical safety, other dogs' safety, expensive lawsuits happen, and too many dogs have been euthanized after being deemed unsafe (by their city) because of a dog park incident, even if the dog was acting from it's natural breeding instinct. Instead, they arrange "Greyhound only" play dates in fenced areas ensuring all Greyhounds wear turn-out basket muzzles. Greyhounds enjoy visiting other Greys during group leashed walks too.
BTW, muzzling only one dog in a dog park is not safe. General muzzle rule: If one dog is muzzled, all dogs should be muzzled. Otherwise, a single muzzled dog can be viewed as the "weakest underdog" by the rest of the dog pack. The muzzled dog is not able to defend him/herself. Weakest dogs often get attacked. If a yelp happens, the entire dog pack often reacts by attacking as if they were killing a weak, injured or dying animal in the wild. (Squeaky toys are manufactured to sound like injured animals to increase dogs' natural prey interest.)
I agree that there are other safer ways to exercise Greyhounds, including visiting fenced enclosures during off times when other dogs are not inside. Taking leashed walks, hikes, and/or short jogs with a hound. Possibly finding a fellow Greyhound owner with a fenced backyard that would be happy to muzzle their hound/s for a safer, fun play date.
(IMHO, I personally disagree with forcing Greyhounds to exercise along side a bicycle for many reasons, particularly because it forces them to keep up with the bike. Greyhounds are short sprinters (races only last approx. 30 seconds). Many Greyhounds tire much more easily than we realize, and they can't talk to tell the cyclist to stop or head home because they are feeling pain, overheating, or feeling fatigued and need to stop exercising.)
Mars sounds like a great dog. Whether he was playing or on the verge of prey behavior, it could be an eye-opener to consider populated dog park risks. Reprimanding him likely wouldn't help (especially in a large, uncontrolled space). He may have picked-up a negative vibe from that dog, or it might be his instinctual play style, or his genetic prey behavior. Racing sighthounds have long been bred and encouraged to chase moving prey outside for their careers.
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We find Greyhounds are easier in multiples than other breeds because they are such easy, family members/house dogs. Many Greyhounds are more pack-oriented than other breeds since they've lived with other Greyhounds during their entire life. The same sex pups usually stay together longer on the breeding farm and during early race training. During pro-racing they are still housed with many Greyhounds.
We brought in two mid-aged sister littermates who were fine together, even after nearly 5 years of racing. Both were extremely loving, outgoing, and playful.
We have a mother and daughter who are extremely close, yet also happily independent. The daughter happens to act like a glued bookend with our other (non-related) hound who has a similar young, playful personality. The non-related friendly bookends are 4 years apart in age but the older one has separation anxiety. The older one doesn't make a move without her best buddy.
They are not sleep snugglers since the younger one prefers her own sleeping space, but that's fine too. (None of our hounds are allowed on human furniture.) -
Assuming he doesn't eat grass, and his house collar is not too, too tight, his gagging is worth a mention to your vet next time to ensure the vet doesn't see/feel anything irritating his airway. If he eats other non-food items, might be worth an appt. sooner. It doesn't sound too much like LP from your description. Good that you're aware of LP symptoms though since it's a progressive disease. If you're concerned, using a harness for walks is an option. (When using a collar, it's good to avoid leash jerking or extreme pulling.)
Two of our 12 year old hounds have LP. The youngest arrived at 6 years old with LP after a long racing career and breeding.
Our initial hints of her LP symptoms:
Her voice and bark were much more hoarse than our other hounds.
Her breathing was much more labored than other hounds, especially during warm weather (either inside while at rest or if excited, or outside during exercise).
She became exhausted quickly if running/playing with other hounds, and her heavy panting (sounded like a freight train) lasted long after other hounds' panting stopped. (Her panting was extremely loud and labored from not being able to breathe in enough oxygen.)
Humm, I suppose all our hounds sometimes sleep with their mouth open a little, especially during summer. One (non-LP) hound regularly barks in her sleep.
Our LP hounds' temperament is completley normal and as loving as ever. When you mentioned reading about "intolerant" dogs, the only thing that came to mind is that we need to manage their air temperature carefully, so they don't overheat, but that's fairly similar to young, healthy Greyhounds too. Most Greys are temperature sensitive. LP hounds more so, and LP hounds exercise should be limited (e.g., no running).
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JJNG: Thank you for elaborating re: the non-FDA approved label use, plus doxycycline to help control the young microfilaria.
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Other preventatives may be different, but my understanding (from Merial mfg. again today) relating to their Heartgard preventative is that their product effectively kills heartworm larvae (stages L3 and L4) in the subcutaneous tissue only.It is not able to kill heartworm larvae (or adult heartworms) circulating deeper within the bloodstream of a heartworm positive dog. Therefore, if left untreated, heartworm positive dogs could continue to spread heartworms via mosquitoes, even while on Heartgard.The following is just a guess: Since non-treated adult heartworms actively mate and give birth deeply within the dog's body, I wonder if that contributes to all life stages of the deeper circulating worm burden that may be considered too difficult to kill with a preventative. That might also contribute to a heartworm positive dog continuing to spread the disease via mosquitoes.Just wanted to add that our previous dogs (indoor only) were on preventative meds. during the warm seasons, but were heartworm infected during a cold winter season (lows in the teens/twenties). Tough, hungry mosquitoes developed ways to overwinter successfully, even in heavier snow regions. Now, year-round heartworm preventative is recommended nationwide, even in places like frigid MN.CleverJason: Thank you for posting your original excellent question. It's a good opportunity for us to refresh and continue learning as heartworm disease and treatments evolve. Also, a great reminder that preventative meds. are much cheaper and easier to administer vs. facing heartworm disease in our beloved dogs.
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Hubcitypam: My post was simply meant to answer the OP's initial question, and share a bit of information obtained from Merial (Heartgard mfg.). I would have generalized my example referring to all heartworm positive, non-treated animals spreading heartworm disease (as Merial does); however, after reading your post about the Labrador being heartworm positive, sans treatment, I simply referred to her. No one is judging anything. Unfortunately, non-treated heartworm infected animals (domestic or wild) further contribute to the century long, worldwide heartworm disease problem. Glad we have preventative to help reduce the number of pet cases. My thoughts go out to Allie. Heartworm disease is heartbreaking.
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Heartgard preventative only kills early stage heartworm larvae (L3 and L4) in dogs' subcutaneous tissue (happens within first 45 days of being infected by an infected mosquito). That larvae begins maturing into L5 (early adult stages) within 45-70 days. A heartworm's lifespan is five to seven years.
If a heartworm positive dog is not successfully treated with appropriate, stronger (chemo-like) drugs to kill adult heartworms, an infestation of heartworms horribly debilitates and kills the dog. The level of heartworm infestation in dogs can vary from 1 worm to 250 worms (imagine one foot long worms).
Merial recommends administering Heartgard once every 30 days to ensure efficacy is not reduced.
Monthly, year-round heartworm prevention is the most effective, safest, and cheapest method for animals and their owners.
(Sadly, if that Lab across the alley from Pam hasn't been treated, that dog is contributing to the spread of heartworms throughout their community through active mosquito bites.)
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This always amazes me. The lab across the alley turned up HW positive at least 5 years ago. His owners could not afford treatment so our vet told him to put the dog on preventative as it would keep further infestation at bay and the current worms would eventually die off from old age. Not a perfect fix, but it kind of makes you wonder about the old wives tale that if you give a HW positive dog preventative it'll drop dead.
I've had heartworm positive dogs that did undergo extensive treatment. As posted, I was taught to heartworm test after any break in preventative treatment before administering any additional heartworm preventative. (Our veterinarians require this too.)
One reason: Veterinarians may need to pre-treat a heartworm positive dog with a different drug first, while the dog is kept under veterinary hospital observation due to risk of dog suffering anaphylactic shock, and danger of pulmonary embolism as microfilariae are being killed inside the dog's body.
Also, if I recall correctly, giving a preventative dose treatment to a HW positive dog may skew the initial test result.
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If there has been a break beyond 45 days since Baron had his last Heartworm preventative chew (e.g., Heartgard), he may need a new heartworm test. It may not be safe to give heartworm preventative meds if he was infected after day 45. Best to consult a vet.
Rather than ordering medication product from on-line sources that are NOT under any guarantee from the medication's manufacturer, you may be interested in this licensed, discounted mobile vet clinic called "VIP Petcare" for purchasing licensed heartworm preventative (or other limited medications at a discount). They often offer FREE (or heavily discounted) heartworm tests, plus discounted preventative. They offer discounted vaccines and parasite tests too.
VIP Petcare: https://www.vippetcare.com/find-a-clinic
As mentioned, Costco's pharmacy is an excellent alternative for buying pet medications.
No on-line sources are safe for buying dog medications, in my experience.
- No assurance the medication itself is not counterfeit.
- No way to ensure products have been stored within the drugs' safe temperature and darkness requirements to protect drug efficacy.
- Drug manufacturers do not guarantee their products if sold on-line -- meaning drug manufacturers will not pay hospital bills to try to save your dog's life (e.g., if dog contracts heartworms while on their product).
- Home mailboxes far exceed safe temperatures for the safety of these medications.
- Delivered product left on front porches can also exceed temperature and darkness limits.
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Urine is a toxin/poison. Like humans, dogs should eliminate on a regular basis multiple times daily. If dogs hold urine inside the body too long, bacteria builds which can result in kidney infection, bladder infection, urinary infection, painful obstructions/stones, etc. A long-term lack of frequent enough eliminations contributes to canine incontinence, deadly kidney disease, etc. Prolonged exposure of toxic carcinogens causes cancer.
Dogs should be given relaxed opportunities to eliminate a minimum of 4 times throughout the day and evening. Holding urine occasionally during storms or fireworks isn't much of a concern, but an ongoing, long-term situation could be concerning.
Probabaly not the OP's hound, but some hounds are so sensitive to their owner's mood (e.g., owner in a rush) that they're hesitant to relax enough to eliminate. Again not OP's case, some newly adopted hounds don't yet understand their new environment and may be hesitant to release urine/bowel (even more hesitant if they were previously punished for an elimination elsewhere).Excessive licking on any part of the body can be a sign of discomfort, infection, pain, or clean-up (e.g., blood or urine). -
What a heartbreaking previous situation for him. Bless you for taking in this sweet and deserving boy!
Two of our hounds are 12 years old and even though they're slowing down a bit, they're still thoroughly enjoying life every day.
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Good suggestions so far. I agree with a neutral territory introduction, and keeping Ruby muzzled and leashed to you when you get home. Some dogs will jump up to snatch a small animal from someone's arms. Don't let your guard down during your friend's visit. Even if Ruby appears to be small dog friendly at first (not showing much interest, looking away from the little dog, not lip licking, not salivating, not lunging, appearing more interested in lying down than interacting with the visiting dog, etc.); later, a Chi could look like a fun, live stuffie toy. Don't allow the Chi. near Ruby's bed, food/water bowls or toys.
If you leave the house leaving your friend's Chi. in a crate, I'd suggest locking the crated visiting dog into another room away from Ruby.
(While visiting someone's home many years ago, we had a scary experience when we left our cat safely crated inside their house while we ran out to grab a quick meal. Their large dog (different hunting breed) was placed outside in their yard during this brief absence. That dog jumped through a high window to get back inside the house in an attempt to eat our crated cat. The dog violently attacked the hard plastic crate (leaving many tooth holes) while dragging and rolling the crate all over the house. Our poor cat was terrorized but thankfully, the crate held together well enough to save our cat's life.)
Hopefully, all will go smoothly and Ruby will be happy to share her home with a little canine friend. Some hounds appear to recognize and accept the more familiar smell of a dog vs. a cat.
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Georgiajed, welcome to GT. Please consider starting a new topic for your post-surgical food question regarding Beau. That way more GTers will see your question to respond in a new thread.
Also, if interested, there is an all breed group for LP dog owners. Many of the members' dogs have been through successful tie-back surgery, and have experience about post-surgical options. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lp/info
Whatever you decide to feed during recovery, please run it by your vet to ensure it's safe for your Greyhound's recent tie-back needs. It's my understanding that certain foods that can be shaped into balls (shaped like meatballs) work well, but my hounds have not had tie-back surgery. If you feed any human foods, please do not add any spices -- garlic, onion etc. are toxic to dogs.
Other readers: This is an old thread. The OP's hound, Dylan did have tie-back surgery but experienced complications. Most sadly, Dylan did not survive.
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Just curious about your comment about your hound's reverse sneezing. Did your vet provide a diagnosis and medication to solve your hound's sneezing?
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I feel for you in this difficult situation, and relieved your cat is expected to be okay. Sadly, I agree with grey_dreams and GreytNut, especially since this involves your indoor family cat. Once dogs (any breed) get as far as aggressively shaking, and sharing a captured cat, behavior modification rarely makes a lasting difference, imo. Strong instinctual prey drive can't be trained out of a dog. This situation with your dogs' "shared" effort is not surprising, it's canine pack mentality. (Similar pack behavior occurs in dog parks, etc. if an injured dog cries in distress, is perceived as a smaller or weaker underdog, or hunted as prey, often the entire group attacks the targeted dog.)
Each cat's reaction is different. One of our younger cats was frightened by a visiting dog's extremely high prey reaction. The dog was muzzled and leashed, and later crated. The dog never made any physical contact with the cat. Very strict cat/dog location management was required during the dog's visit, but that particular cat was too frightened to go downstairs for a year.
Some people successfully divide their house with controlled management (greater success in adult only households). Higher prey is higher risk. As others mentioned, accidents happen if anyone lets their guard down, a cat darts out, or dog forces his way into the cat's side. I know Greyhounds that open door knobs -- GreytNut's smart suggestion of a secondary upper door lock is good for creative dogs, and/or if children share the home. The airlock (catch) system is a lifesaver. We avoid stuffed toys that resemble small, furry animals. Of course, outside environments are considered "game on" for any small moving animals through most Greyhounds' eyes.
Positive thoughts for whatever you decide to do in this difficult situation.
). I think I only noticed her martingale collar, sans separate ID collar. Great if you have an extra flat ID collar for her, if not maybe the adoption group will loan her one so she'll be wearing ID when she's out of her crate. 
:paw forever in our hearts...
Having A Hard Time Getting Sidney To Eat
in Training and Behavior discussion
Posted
First two things I consider when ours won't eat are possible dental pain (teeth or gums), and do they need an outside elimination break before their meal. If dental pain is an issue, a vet visit is needed soon but until then, letting kibble soften in water may allow the dog to get through a few meals. Yes Greys are temperature sensitive. Since you've had a few days of cooler weather, sounds like Sidney may have another issue too.