greyhead

Just don't let it go on for months, like I did, before checking to see if one of the normal gut bacteria has been allowed to over-populate the gut. If it does, it becomes an infection, a small-intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). If the poop gets yellow and smells really awful, that's a clue. But, yes, try to get all those bacteria back in balance before anything worse happens! Sorry your girl went through all this.

Vanilla Ensure perhaps! Nothing too rich, just the plain old original formula.

That lovely girl had a long life with a loving family. It so hard to lose such an old friend. My sympathies to you and your family.

I'm very sorry. Crystal was a beauty and too young.

"If you don't know the dog has symptoms, and the best test results we can get show that the dog isn't hypothyroid, why would you supplement? I just don't get that." Well, of course you wouldn't get it. Neither do I!!! Who said anything about treating in the absence of test results? I thought we were talking about treating in the presence of a panel of positive test results but perhaps the absence of visible, expected symptoms like weight gain! But I'm not returning to this thread, so anybody can say anything they want without an answer from me. One of my dog's UTI seems to be returning and he has bloody poop today too. The other dog, with IBD, has sky-high liver values and a swollen lymph node that they won't aspirate for another two weeks, and he's not eating enough. So fighting for two inches of space in a thyroid argument like this isn't something I have the spirit for right now. (I'm not mad at anyone, I just have serious heartburn!)

If you don't have symptoms, you will know that. If your dog has symptoms like irregular heartbeat or joint pain, you may not know that. And if a greyhound is underweight because of being hypothyroid, nobody is going to suspect a thing! So I'm just much more cautious than you when it comes to declaring a non-verbal being to be symptom-free. So my declining thyroid function was normal for a 50-year-old as you see it, and I should not have been supplemented. So I should now be just living with the joint pain, fatigue, irregular heartbeat, uncomfortably low body temp, mental fuzziness, etc.? Or do you see it differently for people and dogs? As you may know, Jey, you are super helpful and I really like you a lot. But sometimes I think we should just meet somewhere and have this thyroid thing out!

I'm very sorry. He was a beautiful guy with a greyt name and a loving family.

Holy Hypothyroid, Batmom! Nobody, much less me, is suggesting that the OP medicate on the basis of T4 alone, or that a full panel not be done, etc., etc., etc. I'm just pointing out that it's bothersome when results obtained on one study population (e.g., very young dogs, brood moms, and stud dogs) are applied to dogs in a completely different stage of life. If people stop and think about it, that's like expecting geriatric bodies to function like adolescents! I only point out these group differences because not everyone realizes how much they matter. (And the older dogs in those studies are not, I think, very old.) I've argued elsewhere that symptoms of hypothyroidism are not always visible or easily determined. And I would also argue that just because decline in thyroid function with age is normal in the sense of expectable, that's no reason in and of itself to leave it uncorrected. Dee's Goldie, for example, is doing much better with thyroid supplementation. And what is she, 12? But again, I'm not opining that OP's dog should be supplemented without further consideration.

I don't have that experience. But I do have experience with a cognitively confused dog, due to intestinal malabsorption. He has to have B-12 shots for life, which are very easy to give and go just under the skin. The cognitive confusion disappeared within a day! While I'm not suggesting that it will be that simple for your dog, it wouldn't hurt to try this while you're considering whether to give stronger meds and just see if it improves at all. If so, a smaller dosage of medicine may be required! If you consider that B-12 is key to proper functioning of the entire nervous system, including the brain, supplementing it is not a totally lame idea. It may also be that in your case supplementing all the B's in B-complex would be best. And you could perhaps do it orally, though that may be harder on the dog's digestive system and not as efficiently absorbed. (People rave about their fast and huge result when they take the shots as opposed to the pills.) Knowing what it's like to see your precious dog lost and confused like that, I wish you all the best in getting this sorted quickly! (In our case, there was also trouble getting up and managing movement, which is scary too!) Hope someone comes along quickly, also, who can answer your medicine question.

I don't know the answer to your question. But we have both the gel and the spray. One thing you can do with the gel or any toothpaste-type thing is apply it with a piece of gauze, the kind you use for wounds. A lot of dogs don't mind that as much as a brush. Our vet suggested it and said that even wiping the teeth with it, without any paste, would go a long way toward cleaning. Btw, our dogs minded brushing much less after we got toothbrushes for babies, which are much smaller and softer than regular "soft" toothbrushes for adults, which in turn are much softer than the brushes sold for dogs! Hope this at least helps you think about it. I don't think I'd try mixing the gel with water, myself.

But don't fail to notice that the greyhounds in the studies listed at the end of the Greyhound Health Packet describe thyroid levels in dogs much, much younger than yours (some even under 2 years old), and some of them still active racers.

As to types, we've given Amoxicillin combined with Clavamox and potassium (all in one pill) and Orbax, which is in the same class as Baytril. The latter class is more expensive than the former but is the big gun, so to speak. But you really need to have a urine culture and sensitivity to determine which germ and then which med(s) will kill it! Secondly, if it has been going on for a while, you may need to give longer than the standard 10-day course of antibiotic. And you may need to give it for 4 to 6 weeks without interruption. Whenever you stop, wait at least 4-5 days, then run another culture (and sensitivity is the culture is positive for bacteria). Sometimes we have to give one antibiotic for a while and then change to another. Is that what you needed to know? I'm one of the ones who has been through this lately, so you have my very best wishes for successful treatment!

You and Rainman are in our thoughts, and we'll be keeping an eye out for news.

What's the difference between "issues" and "symptoms"?

I'm so glad you shared this! Most people don't realize that hypothyroidism can show up in symptoms that are the opposite of the ones expected, such as weight loss instead of weight gain. Then people think they shouldn't medicate their dog with low numbers "because he doesn't have any symptoms."

Thanks for the good update. Sounds like Athena's in good hands. Hope you both get some good rest tonight. You sound exhausted.

Batmom, it means "thick." The only technical terms I know come with the causes of the thickness, such as hypercoagulation. LunaTygerCat, prayers and best wishes for Athena. Please let us know how things go.

If Red has that trouble again before you get to the vet, maybe you could take a video of it to show the vet exactly what's happening.

Didn't mean to say they're the same thing. They are not. It's that sludge leads to hemolysis of the blood sample. The sludge we're concerned about isn't the one that can maybe sometimes result from a greyhound's normally high hematocrit, it's the sludge that can result from an extra burden of broken red blood cells caused by something like a TBD. In any case, Athena sounds sick with something.

Just spoke to the internist who treats one of my dogs. She said, yes, a TBD can result in greater breakdown of red blood cells, resulting in sludgier blood. Hope this helps!

Canadian measurements are different from U.S. labs, so I can't relate to your numbers. You don't say which value was below 3, and there are several values to be measured. In any case, hypothyroidism is nothing to be afraid of and not a complete shock in an older dog. If you use "hypothyroid" as a search term in this forum, you'll get bunches of info. I have to run out the door, but I'm sure others can jump in and help you understand this, especially those familiar with how Canadian test results look.

Here's a link that has exhaustive info about TBD's, expected test results, who does testing, etc. Although it was put out on a samoyed page, it still applies! http://www.mirage-samoyeds.com/tick.htm And you can forward it to your vet, or copy it or whatever, for their info. Drinking a lot, not eating, and low WBC count are also suspicious for a TBD. I have a call in to a vet to check on the sludgy blood angle and will repost when she calls back.

IIRC, a TBD can cause sluggish blood. Shane used to have the same characteristic and had to be thoroughly fasted before any blood draw so that the sample wouldn't hemolyze. But that went away after he was treated for Babesia. And then I read somewhere that TBD's could cause that problem. Has Athena been TBD tested? She may have one that has been dormant, and it's flaring. ETA: And her UTI might have returned too.

Sounds like good news to me and quite a relief! Shane gets real bruised up whenever he's had to have a procedure (MRI, blood draw, cystocentesis -- well, lots of blood in the urine sample from that one) at the specialty facility rather than done by his regular vet. The specialty place is also an ER, and the techs are used to regular dogs, and they're used to doing things fast! If you handle a greyhound like a regular dog and/or fast like an emergency, even a blood draw will leave a bruise! All we can do is tell them to take it easy if there's a next time. I won't beat myself up if you don't!

No advice, but gentle hugs and scritches for your boy Red and hopes that he'll be okay.