Burpdog Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Please -- as soon as it is diagnosed, get valium you can administer rectally if they shut down their airway. My heart breaks for the latest casualty -- she went the same way Trevor did and it breaks my heart to this day! Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 This is such good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Interesting thought, although I've never heard of rectal valium being used for laryngeal paralysis. Have you had to try this, and how did it work? I'd think it might help in less severe cases, but probably wouldn't have made a difference in the case you're referring to. If the dog died in minutes, the valium wouldn't have had a chance to start working yet. Rectal valium takes an average of 5-15 minutes to take effect. Even IV valium can take 2-3 minutes. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alannamac Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'm dealing with LP and so far the only thing my vet has given me are PILLS (tussigon)for a breathing crisis...very frustrating. How will I give Bandit a pill if he's gasping for air? I have another appt. scheduled this Friday to ask for something stronger. Hopefully an injectable, but a liquid might work too. Any suggestions as to what is fastest to calm him? Really doesn't matter (well it does but.....) if it's something that might cause him to pass, I just don't want him to suffer if he ever has an attack like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 I'd think it might help in less severe cases, but probably wouldn't have made a difference in the case you're referring to. If the dog died in minutes, the valium wouldn't have had a chance to start working yet. Rectal valium takes an average of 5-15 minutes to take effect. Even IV valium can take 2-3 minutes. You don't need it in less severe cases, and I will disagree with you strongly that it would not have made a difference. I was there, it would have made a difference. You administer it and get to the vet. It can also be used in a dog with cluster seizures. If they are not a candidate for tie back surgery, elavil given every day can help (I've been told). Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotion Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 After what I've been through with Avril I will never be without liquid valium. I think it would be smart to get this from your vet for LP. Thank goodness I've never dealt with this in a grey. I think the key is to make sure you give them a big loading dose so it acts as quickly as possible. I know I was told to give a huge dose to Avril if she seizes again. So maybe that's the confusion. you probably need a lot more than 5cc. Quote Pam with greys Avril, Dalton & Zeus & Diddy the dachshund & Miss Buzz the kitty Devotion, Jingle Bells, Rocky, Hans, Harbor, Lennon, NoLa, Scooter, Naomi and Scout at the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeshoreGreys Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 OK, those who have more experience with this, can you be more specific? My almost 14yo has LP, and I haven't had a dog with LP for almost 10 years so I don't remember much. Back then, my LP girl was on theophylline, but we didn't have too many issues with her and ultimately she went to the bridge because of other issues. My current LP boy is fine unless he's overheated or stressed. When we know there are storms coming through, he gets 2mg of Alprazolam (generic valium), and it does help. But when he has stressful times and has not been drugged, is there anything we can do to help him breathe easier? Diane, do you know how much Elavil and how that is helpful? What was your experience with Trevor, if you can bear to tell me? Devotion, can you share your experience(s) with Avril regarding your liquid valium comment? And regarding the liquid valium and/or rectal valium, can someone "dumb that down" for me? What sort of instanc/what are the signs that you'd need to use such a thing? Quote Sara formerly on Greytalk as Mommyof3Gone, but still part of our family and always in our hearts:Bruiser Isa Comander To 6/23/91-11/20/03 Sandy NSK Special Up 10/19/89-6/13/04 Beau Bdk's Boo Boo 1/1/93-12/15/06 Cooney Lars Dbltakedean 11/1/93-1/23/07Buddy 2/9/1997-11/16/09 Joe Elkhart Joe 11/7/99-12/2/10 Alex Streakin Diablo 4/17/02-4/1/11 Brother Hylife Brother 9/26/97-2/28/12 Comanche Gil's Comanche 6/7/2005-11/7/2015 Molly 4/8/2011-4/13/2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sighthounds4me Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Damn...wish I'd have known this two weeks ago... Thanks for the info, Diane. I will file it mentally, and hope I never need it again. Quote Sarah, the human, Henley, and Armani the Borzoi boys, and Brubeck the Deerhound.Always in our hearts, Gunnar, Naples the Greyhounds, Cooper and Manero, the Borzoi, and King-kitty, at the Rainbow Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakeshoreGreys Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Damn...wish I'd have known this two weeks ago... Thanks for the info, Diane. I will file it mentally, and hope I never need it again. Quote Sara formerly on Greytalk as Mommyof3Gone, but still part of our family and always in our hearts:Bruiser Isa Comander To 6/23/91-11/20/03 Sandy NSK Special Up 10/19/89-6/13/04 Beau Bdk's Boo Boo 1/1/93-12/15/06 Cooney Lars Dbltakedean 11/1/93-1/23/07Buddy 2/9/1997-11/16/09 Joe Elkhart Joe 11/7/99-12/2/10 Alex Streakin Diablo 4/17/02-4/1/11 Brother Hylife Brother 9/26/97-2/28/12 Comanche Gil's Comanche 6/7/2005-11/7/2015 Molly 4/8/2011-4/13/2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotion Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 my comment about liquid valium was nothing related to LP. I have no experience with this. Avril has encephalitis. She had status epilepticus which was our first and only symptom something was terribly wrong. So I now have liquid valium. In our case if she needs this it will be a big dose. I hope I was not misleading. My comment meant thank goodness this is a possibility. Valium doesn't stop status epilepticus but may by time to get her to the vet or e-vet if this ever happens again. I think the most important thing is to know how much to give as the initial dose and if that doesn't work what to do 3-5 minutes later. In my case, I was shocked at what they said for me to give her. I would put LP right up there with her seizures that it's not serious but critical meaning life is completely at stake. best of luck to all who deal with LP. My heart truly goes out to you all..... Quote Pam with greys Avril, Dalton & Zeus & Diddy the dachshund & Miss Buzz the kitty Devotion, Jingle Bells, Rocky, Hans, Harbor, Lennon, NoLa, Scooter, Naomi and Scout at the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mike Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Diazepam does work for excitement in canines and for other issues too. If a dog is in pulmonary stress from LP it may not work quickly enough. In a perfect world it's a great idea but to say that one could be saved from this is a stretch. You just don't know. And I'm not asking for people to agree with me. I am a vet but all dogs are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 You don't need it in less severe cases, and I will disagree with you strongly that it would not have made a difference. I was there, it would have made a difference. Sorry, I thought by "the latest casualty" you were referring to the grey who was added to Remembrance yesterday, but maybe that was an incorrect assumption on my part. That was the case I was referring to when I said Valium probably wouldn't have helped. Based on the owner's description, it sounded like the dog literally died 2-3 minutes after she started having trouble breathing. By "less severe cases" I'm talking about the dogs that go into respiratory distress but are able to hang on for the 10-15+ min it takes to get to the vet for sedation and oxygen. In those cases, I can see how giving rectal Valium at home might help give them a little relief before they make it to the vet. So I'm not discounting your idea - I actually think it's a great one and will consider it for the next LP dog I diagnose. However, I don't think it will help in every case. For the most part, vets will agree that LP is best treated with surgery. When surgery isn't an option (for whatever reason), I've heard of a few cases that responded well to an anti-anxiety medication called doxepin. The premise is the same as trying Elavil (amitriptyline), but I haven't heard that Elavil really makes much of a difference. I'd love to hear any success stories with medical management of LP, as that's an area with few proven options. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BauersMom Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Nothing will work 100% of the time - but the point is, have something on hand just in case you are in the percentage where it will help. It certainly can't hurt, especially when death is a real possibility. Quote With Buster Bloof (UCME Razorback 89B-51359) and Gingersnap Ginny (92D-59450). Missing Pepper, Berkeley, Ivy, Princess and Bauer at the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpdog Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 Diane, do you know how much Elavil and how that is helpful? What was your experience with Trevor, if you can bear to tell me? Boy Sara, we are going back 11 years! I think it was 50mg a day (it was a dose A&M suggested) and it keeps them calm.. My friend & I went to the store. We were gone about 15 minutes. Trevor was so happy to see us when we came in he stressed from happiness and shut down his airway. It was horrible. He had always come out of it before. This time he did not. You can only imagine the pain of a dog dying because he was so happy to see you For LP dogs, summertime is very dangerous. At least if I had the valium and adminstered it, I would have no regrets if he died anyway. It certainly won't hurt and it may save a life. Quote Diane & The Senior Gang Burpdog Biscuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Diane, do you know how much Elavil and how that is helpful? What was your experience with Trevor, if you can bear to tell me? For LP dogs, summertime is very dangerous. At least if I had the valium and adminstered it, I would have no regrets if he died anyway. It certainly won't hurt and it may save a life. I completely agree. That warm day in January when Mork was completely overheated I was terrified that I could lose him at any minute. I iced him, put alcohol on his pads, blew a fan on him...everything I could think of and it was one of the scariest things I've ever seen. I never would have forgiven myself had I lost him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TBSFlame Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Please -- as soon as it is diagnosed, get valium you can administer rectally if they shut down their airway. My heart breaks for the latest casualty -- she went the same way Trevor did and it breaks my heart to this day! I wish I had done this. I will never get over watching my Tessie on the last trip to the E Vet. If only...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LindsaySF Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I have rectal valium on hand for Sophie's seizures. What's the thought behind LP? To calm them down quickly if they are having a breathing attack? Does it prevent tracheal spasms or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What's the thought behind LP? To calm them down quickly if they are having a breathing attack? Does it prevent tracheal spasms or something? Mainly just to calm them down. Whenever a dog with LP gets excited, anxious, hot, etc - anything that makes them breath or pant harder - they can go into respiratory distress. The harder they try to breath, the more the airway closes down, the more they panic and try harder to breath...leading to a vicious cycle. So an important part of treatment to stop an attack is sedation to relax the dog and slow down their breathing. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 My heart goes out to all that deal with this. Sutra had mild LP and he pretty much only went outside to potty really quickly during the summer months. The air conditioner was turned on when outdoor temperature reached 78/80 so that the house would stay cool for him at all times. If it had ever progressed I'd have done the surgery for him. Thankfully it never did and we never had any episodes. He just would do that throat clearing giraffe/gakking noise that is the hallmark of LP if he got a little bit warm. Once he sounded a little wheezy but was not freaking out about it thank goodness. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devotion Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Could one please explain the difference in liguid vs rectal valium? also, for me and anyone else what are the signs and/or symptoms of LP? Would this be compared to life threatening asthma? I mean like if you don't have your inhaler or oxygen you die? I guess I just don't understand this. and gosh knows, hopefully, I'll never know firsthand.....however, I'd still like to educate myself. this is just horrible to read about this.... Quote Pam with greys Avril, Dalton & Zeus & Diddy the dachshund & Miss Buzz the kitty Devotion, Jingle Bells, Rocky, Hans, Harbor, Lennon, NoLa, Scooter, Naomi and Scout at the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Could one please explain the difference in liguid vs rectal valium? Most of the time, 'rectal valium' is simply the injectable liquid form of valium given rectally with a syringe. Some compounding pharmacies can make a valium suppository, but it's not absorbed as quickly as just using the injectable. I guess I just don't understand this. and gosh knows, hopefully, I'll never know firsthand.....however, I'd still like to educate myself. this is just horrible to read about this.... Here's a good article explaining laryngeal paralysis. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LindsaySF Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Could one please explain the difference in liguid vs rectal valium? Liquid valium is given rectally, it's the same valium that they use in IV's, but the dosage is different for IV or rectal use. They do make valium suppositories that can be administered rectally, but they take longer to work than liquid valium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hikinghounds Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Rectal valium (diazepam) is the liquid form and it's just given with a syringe (no needle) and lubricant in the bum. I use it to stop Zephyr's seizures, it's a common use of it. It actually has an effect almost immediately. The neurologist told me it would be fast, but I was surprised and happy to see how fast, within a minute, sometimes only a few seconds. Apparently it is absorbed very fast by the rectal tissue. I read that it is the second fastest way to get valium into the system, IV is fastest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) also, for me and anyone else what are the signs and/or symptoms of LP? Here is a video of Lucy's (RileysLegacy) angel Riley doing the classic cough/throat clearing noise that is a telltale sign of LP. Sutra did this occasionally but would do it much more often if his throat got dry while he was eating (so I added water to his kibble a lot), or if he was getting warm. When he got warm he'd also get kind of a raspy sound when he was breathing. In his case, as long as he didn't spend too much time outside when it was hot, he was fine. As I said before though, if it had progressed at all I'd have done the tieback surgery for him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA_sFmUltqk&feature=player_profilepage Edited July 30, 2011 by krissn333 Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LindsaySF Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Thank you for posting that video. Teagan has been doing this lately while eating. Crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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