Peeing In The House And Crate

[Guest fenix916]

We have had "Hugs" for about a week and a half. The first week we had zero accidents. He exhibited some signs of separation anxiety when crated like crying, but not much else. He was calm when we would come home. We moved the crate to our bedroom to calm him at night and we started feeding him in the crate and putting treats in there. He will go into the crate (sometimes) voluntarily or on command.

 

I take Hugs for a 30-40 min walk in the morning. He is left home in his crate from 8:30-5:30 or 6. We have a dog walker come around Midday to take him for another 30 minute walk.

 

This past Friday (after having him for a week) we came home to find he had peed in the crate. The dog walker had come very early that day (like 10:50, instead of closer to noon). We thought maybe he was just alone for too long. Then on Sunday he peed outside the crate on the rug by the front door. He'd just been out to pee about 2 hours before hand. He stopped mid-pee when I got his leash and finished outside.

 

Today, the dog walker sad he had already peed in his crate before he arrived. To be fair, Hugs hadn't peed in quite awhile--he peed at 6:40 am when we went for our first walk, but when I took him out before leaving for work (around 8:15) he would NOT pee. I was out in our usual pee spots in the yard for 10 minutes and he showed ZERO interest in doing his business, he just stood there! So I know this accident is our fault, but I can't MAKE him pee. He is usually so good about peeing when we go out...walk out in the yard and he pees within a minute of getting out there.

 

Could it be a UTI? Separation anxiety?

[OwnedBySummer]

Sounds like he's not housetrained. A week is awfully quick to assume he's fully trained. But I've always had females, so I dunno. My one suggestion, about MAKING him pee... rather than take him into your own yard, pop out the front door and go to a streetlight or whatever the popular neighborhood pee spot is. He should want to both read and leave p-mail.

[Guest fenix916]

Thanks. We're realizing he is not as trained our home ready as we were lead to believe. So we got Hugs from one group, let's call it Adoption Group A, who said he was house trained (they said we didn't even need to crate him!), injury free, and low maintenance; they also said he had been adopted before but wasn't a good fit in the home (two toddlers who were supposedly too rough with him). Two days after bringing Hugs home we got a call from another group, let's call it Adopt Group B, who wanted to offer us a dog, too. I explained that we had Hugs. Turns out Adoption Group B had previously had Hugs before he was adopted out the first time.

 

Adoption Group B provided us with a lot more information on Hugs than we got from the Group A (the group that actually gave us the dog). Group B told us Hugs had separation anxiety, that he still needed to be crated, and that he was in fact returned for aggression/territorial issues. Hugs also has an occasional moderate limp on one leg that is pretty god damn obvious. We're going to take him to the vet to get that looked at, I'm just worried about the cost.

 

Basically, I am just venting (and pissed off) because I feel like Group A was either woefully ignorant or dishonest with us about Hugs' history, health, and temperament. Group B called two days after we got him and seemed SHOCKED we hadn't been given more accurate info. For instance, Hugs was returned for snapping at his adoptive dog parents, not because the kids were too rough with him (he's snarled and barked at me once or twice). He isn't house trained (they told us not to even bother with a crate!), and his separation anxiety is fairly significant. I think I'm hurt because I feel lied to, but I'm also mad because if we'd been told all this stuff from the start we could have made better decisions FOR THE GOOD OF THE DOG.

 

I realize adoption groups work incredibly hard and are fallible (like us all), but we're not experienced greyhound owners.

[a_daerr]

I understand you feel upset and misled.

 

I'd recommend giving him some more time to adjust. Even though greyhounds are often marketed as being 'already trained' and 'low maintenance,' it's a rare occasion that one will come with perfect manners, especially when it comes to house-training. Many dogs don't understand that all indoor places are off limits. Some need training with every new environment. Right now, I'd start by putting him on a strict food, water, elimination, and exercise schedule. Make sure he is totally emptied out before you leave the house. Until he becomes more reliable, you'll need to let him out often, reward the right behavior like crazy, and watch him like a hawk.

 

If he's still having accidents after you've spent time doing formal house-training, you may find his peeing is the result of crate anxiety or separation anxiety. Those are a bit more challenging issues to deal with, but you'll find a ton of threads on here with good advice.

 

Good luck! Don't give up yet!

[Guest fenix916]

thanks! we would be relieved if this is just house breaking, as that's something we feel confident we can handle.

 

complicating your helpful recommendations: the last couple days Hugs has been refusing to walk. he just stops and looks away from us. won't budge. this morning and yesterday morning he would not eliminate before we left for work. we both tried to walk him and he fought us every inch of the way. We tried for 45 minutes to walk him around the neighborhood or the yard and nothing. In the yard where he usually eliminates IMMEDIATELY he instead just stood there looking away from us, still. I can't stress enough that every other time we take him out there he goes right away. But before work? he acts like he has no idea why we're out there. And now he's fighting us on walks.

[a_daerr]

That could be an SA thing. Some dogs will delay any routine leading up to their people leaving. They begin making the association that "right after the morning walk and pee, mom and dad leave me, so I'm going to drag this out as long as I can.' There's a lot of good threads on here re: alone training.

[Guest grey_dreams]

Just because a dog is housetrained in one house doesn't mean they are housetrained in all houses.

 

Just because a dog does not exhibit separation anxiety in one environment (including other animals and people) doesn't mean that they won't exhibit separation anxiety in another environment (with other people).

 

Right now the dog is having some anxiety because of the new house and new people. I assume you don't have other animals, so he has to get used to being really alone (most foster situations have multiple dogs/cats/other animals, and at greyhound tracks they are surrounded by tens of other dogs and multiple people all day and night). Dogs are by nature very social (unlike cats), so it is really difficult for many of them to get used to being completely alone.

 

It sounds like the recent increase in his anxiety is at least partly in response to your increasing anxiety (which is fairly obvious from the tone of your posts). Greyhounds are incredibly soft dogs, and they can read, sense, and smell anxiety in their human caretakers, and that makes them even more anxious.

 

Just relax. Give him and yourselves time to adjust and learn about each other. No living creature comes with 100% guarantees regarding behavior and health. Every human and animal will eventually get sick at some time.

 

Read in the forum about alone training. You need to start doing daily alone training with him. And most of all, relax.

[Guest fenix916]

Thanks! We'll try to chill.

 

Another question: Hugs escaped his crate today. Other than scratching himself he was fine. Both the dog walker and my wife found him upstairs. We've learned that anxious Hugs goes straight for our bedroom and lies down in any dirty laundry he can find. Happily, no accidents, no destruction. Should we try NOT locking him up tomorrow? He scratched himself escaping. Incidentally, tonight he is VOLUNTARILY going in and out of his crate a lot tonight. I mean if the dog is going to be happier out of the crate I'd be willing to risk the odd accident or two. I'd much rather clean pee or have a shoe chewed than have him anxious and hurting himself trying to escape.

 

Hugs cries when crated, even if we're in the same room EXCEPT when he's crated in the bedroom and we're asleep in there with him.

[Guest grey_dreams]

They can really seriously injure themselves when escaping a crate. At the least, they can break teeth, especially the canines, or cut/scratch themselves. At the worst, they can slash themselves badly on twisted metal. A dog that is escaping or trying to escape the crate should not be crated (IMO).

[Brandiandwe]

I'd leave the crate open and stick some dirty laundry in there with him. I've also, in the past, taken a favourite stuffy with me to the gym, then driven home with it up my shirt. Disgusting, yes, but it then smelt really strongly of me when I left one of the girls in kennels. Others have posted about alone training. Hang in there!

[Guest fenix916]

Agreed! We feel really bad if he had previously tried to escape before today and hadn't realized. We don't know if he was crated in his first home, or if he had positive experiences with crating in the past. We put his crate on a different side of the living room (as he had peed in it twice on the other side of the room...we didn't want any lingering smell encouraging him to eliminate) and he is just hanging out in there. Maybe we'll just leave the crate there and bring his bed into the corner of the bedroom he's been sleeping in and see how it goes? Anything is better than him hurting himself.

 

 

Turns out he did pee in one (unused) room. Not surprising considering he wouldn't pee this morning.

[Guest fenix916]

Thanks! Yea, we've been rotating laundry in and out of his crate from the start. I try to wear the same clothes for a few mornings in a row when I walk him through the woods, then leave those clothes in there. I think leaving his crate open could eliminate big parts of the morning ritual that signal to him that we're leaving, which could help.

 

We'll stick with the alone training too.

[Brandiandwe]

My dogs tend to hang out in the bedroom, where we all sleep, most of the time we aren't there. Except Hermon who enjoys rolling around on the couch. But that's a different story. It's a safe place where we're all together, their beds are always there and they have access to the Human Bed, which they love. So maybe set up the bedroom so Cash can go there as he would when you all go to bed? Lots of alone training.

 

I've also been using a DAP collar on Brandi which has really helped in managing her anxiety and inappropriate urination.

 

One other question is whether another grey might be on the cards? Some don't do well alone but it's not really a solution, or possible for everyone. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Guest fenix916]

Huzzah he peed before we left for work! It took awhile, but I kept pointing at the ground and he would sniff where I pointed. Eventually this triggered voluntary, enthusiastic sniffing on his own, which we all know often leads to peeing. I hope he'll do better today outside the crate. He went up to the bedroom as soon as he saw we were leaving, and I feel bad because I left some of his alone treats downstairs (not that he cares, he isn't very food motivated).

 

He fought me on the first half of his walk but I stayed positive (and kept walking). Whenever he started to walk with me, I would praise him. Things got better, and for the last third of the walk he was happily trotting alongside me. I feel bad, but stopping to try to coax him along did absolutely nothing...if he gets out in front of me and I stop and tell him to heel he listens, but if he stops BEHIND me, he will not budge unless i just keep moving. I resolved to slow down a little but to just keep walking at a steady pace (I don't want to pull on his collar too hard). When we first got him he pulled on the leash, but now he heels really well (unless of course he's refusing to walk).

 

I do think (busting out of the crate aside) his SA is getting better. He doesn't always immediately try to follow us around. He seems content to chill in the living room for progressively longer periods alone.

[Roo]

He fought me on the first half of his walk but I stayed positive (and kept walking). Whenever he started to walk with me, I would praise him. Things got better, and for the last third of the walk he was happily trotting alongside me. I feel bad, but stopping to try to coax him along did absolutely nothing...if he gets out in front of me and I stop and tell him to heel he listens, but if he stops BEHIND me, he will not budge unless i just keep moving. I resolved to slow down a little but to just keep walking at a steady pace (I don't want to pull on his collar too hard). When we first got him he pulled on the leash, but now he heels really well (unless of course he's refusing to walk).

 

 

Sometimes this is just what you have to do - keep walking! You feel awful at first, of course, but they'll learn that when you're walking, they're walking (unless they're sniffing or pottying, of course). I'm glad he seems to be doing a bit better, and I hope today goes smoothly!

[Brandiandwe]

Fingers crossed for you!

[Guest fenix916]

Thanks! I came home an hour earlier today because I need to head back out to a work thing (wife will be home soon). No pee...at least none that I have found yet. He peed right away when we got out, which is a good sign...in the past when he's had an accident before we got home he wouldn't pee when we first took him out.

 

Everything in the house looks....pretty much exactly how we left it. Maybe his past accidents all occurred right before we got home and me getting home early prevented one. OR maybe just maybe he was good today outside the crate today.

[Brandiandwe]

Be cautiously optimistic. But hurrah!!!!! Maybe all he needed was to be able to be in his den (your bedroom) after a nice tiring walk.

[Guest fenix916]

Yea. After I came home the poor guy was stuck by himself for another 3 hours when I had to go back out to a late night work thing. My wife was also working late--weird night, neither of us ever work late, what are the chances of both on the same night?

 

Anyway, he was fine home alone for another few hours. I lead him up to his bed with a kong full of organic, no-salt peanut butter (which is extra sticky) and waited for him to go to town on it and snuck out. I also left a dab of peanut butter in his food dish so that when he (inevitably) went downstairs to look for us he would find a treat. Seems to have done the trick.

 

He's seemed MUCH happier in general about not being crated. When we come home after leaving him out of the crate he's more playful and engaged. I wonder if his first family crated him for negative reasons. He also loves to go in his crate now that he's not being locked in it.

 

He still whines even if we're both in (separate) showers at the same time, but just a little. Anyway, we're much relieved to see a happier and more relaxed Hugs. Sorry we locked you up buddy!

Edited May 2, 2014 by fenix916

[Guest grey_dreams]

Many dogs do much better out of the crate. Glad to hear of your great progress! Just wanted to mention, not sure what size Kong you have, but filling it with PB is likely way too much PB, and could possibly lead to diarrhea and/or obesity (that's a lot of fat) if you give it every work day. Most people mix other things in with the PB, such as some kibble reserved out of the breakfast portion, or sliced banana (if he likes them) or other fruit, or sliced carrot (if he likes them). There are some recipes on the forum for Kong stuffing if you search. Or you could get creative with other things you know he likes (eg, roasted chicken or the like).

Edited May 2, 2014 by grey_dreams

[Guest fenix916]

No worries, I misspoke, the kong is by no means full. I take out a regular knife and get some PB on there and spread some on the outside and inside, and we're only dipping the knife in once. So the kong is really mostly empty. We tried little pieces of fruit (the dog usually little banana pieces) or treats, but he either doesn't get them or spits them onto the floor. My wife cuts up little slices of banana and puts PB in between them and feezes them. He loves those by themselves, but put in a kong? Not interested.

 

He likes to chew on carrots, but he doesn't eat them (i.e. he spits them back out).

[Guest fenix916]

Well, Hugs was awfully good Thursday, Friday, and Saturday when left outside his crate. Today, he damaged a couple doors that were shut by trying to scratch them open, presumably to look for us. One was a door to an empty bedroom we're going to renovate that was shut, the other was a flimys folding door down to our basement (where we do laundry). The damage suggests a persistent scratching in the same spot to get the door open, rather than a frantic clawing. I was thinking we'd leave the bedroom door open tomorrow but just block it off? He has zero interest in going in there usually. For the basement door, I thought we'd slide something in front of it? He has previously shown ZERO ability/interest in make-shift gates.

 

We went out for a few hours saturday morning and afternoon to simulate us being away for work, and he seemed fine.

 

We also got his DAP collar today.

Edited May 4, 2014 by fenix916

[Guest fenix916]

He was good again yesterday. We put tin foil on places we thought he might scratch. Home alone and no accidents. However, he refused to pee before work again. There's maybe only an hour and 10 minutes between his last pee on his morning walk and when we try to get him to go before leaving for work. I've tried walking him around the neighborhood to no avail. He was the same way this morning. It makes us nervous about accidents, but he's also shown that he can hold it sometimes. In fact, no accidents since last Wednesday when he busted out of his crate.

 

As part of his alone training I've been teaching him "go to place" with the "place" being his fleece blanket he lounges on in our living room with us. I've only been at it for a couple days, but I think it's really helping. I do some training on it in the morning and when I get home from work. In addition, I use it basically whenever I think he's getting too stressed or excited. Right now, he won't stay in his place very long if he's REALLY excited (i.e. food is coming or my wife just got home), but even that brief "go to place" focuses him and calms him. Last night my wife ignored him when she came home until he went to place and lied down--then he got a treat and much affection.

 

I also use "go to place" when he's nosing around the kitchen a little too much or when he seems to be anxiously following one of us around. I'm noticing he's gradually spending more and more time at his place, AND going there voluntarily more. This is making getting dinner ready or doing the dishes a lot easier. We like having him in the kitchen sometimes, but nosing food on the counter or trying to get in the dishwasher or following RIGHT behind us isn't cool. ANYWAY last night was very exciting because he hung out in the living room for quite a bit of time while we cooked or did dishes. Also when he wanted to be in the kitchen with us he started going over to an out of the way corner and lying down (which got him mild praise).

 

He doesn't steal food (yet) but we're trying to nip that in the bud with place training. Mostly we're worried we'll trip over him while holding something hot/sharp or that he'll like something unsafe in the dishwasher.