Giving Paw Whilst Petting And When I Stop

[Guest Lmw626]

Mine paws too, I take it as his way of saying "don't stop!" It's so adorable!

[Guest zombrie]

All my dogs do this but Doolin is the worst Jan (greytpups) will know.. he suckered her into petting him for so long at GIG she had to trade off with someone because he didn't want the belly rubs to stop!

[Guest HoundWorks]

Siri does this as well! She will go into a full roach if you don't give in and start wriggling around to get your attention. So cute!

[PrairieProf]

By the way, have you seen the current Iams TV commercial with the returning female soldier and the Irish Wolfhound? I've been noticing that the Wolfhound "gives her the paw" too. It's sweet.

[Potomacpupsmom]

Breeze does this all the time when she wants a belly rub. She wraps her forepaw around my arm so I stay with her. Or if she lays down for a bellyrub she will "wave" her paw to get my attention and I fall for it every time!

[Feisty49]

Don't worry about the whole dominance thing. As others have mentioned, she's just asking for more love. Someone who's obsessed with dominance theory might say that she's being manipulative and that we should only give affection on our terms, not theirs. But IMO, dogs have the right to communicate their desires with us, and it doesn't mean they're trying to take over. Just enjoy your girl and don't let myths interfere with your bond and relationship with her.

 

Yep, I agree. The whole thing about nothing in life is free can't apply to everything, IMO. And why did any of us get a dog if not to nuture them and hopefully get some positive response in return. My Annie doesn't paw. She noses. There's nothing that makes my heart warmer than to feel that cold nose pushing up my elbow, with great strength, and then see her lips quiver with pleasure when I respond to her request for attention. Be glald your girl thinks you're the best giver of love in the world. It's so precious.

[Guest cwholsin]

Our guys don't give paw, but Hermes rests his head on you for attention, and Nash roaches anytime he gets belly rubs

 

As for dominance, NILF, etc,: it's problematic if your dog is demanding attention, not so if he/she is asking. A dog pawing to demand attention will come up and start pawing you and not stop.

 

I gotta say though, being dominant over your dog is not mean, cruel, or depriving them of attention/love. It's about having a well-behaved dog that's not going to demand you give him/her things, and part of being 'dominant' that people who don't like dominance/pack/leader/whatever don't talk about or don't know is making sure the dog(s) have plenty of the things they need including love and attention so they never -need- to demand anything from you. I personally don't care about terms, schools of training, whatever. I do what my dogs need me to do for them to be happy, well-adjusted, and well-behaved, and at times that's been NILF/asserting bosshood!

Edited January 28, 2013 by cwholsin

[3vagreys]

My sweet Stampede used to do that all the time. He would keep pawing until he had enough petting. My little Echo does the cutest thing. She rubs her own nose with her wrist. I guess she's afraid to paw us but it is so adorable.

[JJNg]

part of being 'dominant' that people who don't like dominance/pack/leader/whatever don't talk about or don't know is making sure the dog(s) have plenty of the things they need including love and attention so they never -need- to demand anything from you. I personally don't care about terms, schools of training, whatever.

Hmm...I guess I'm one who doesn't know. I've never heard anyone talking about needing to be dominant over a dog or to "show a dog who's boss" use it in a way that means to give the dog love and attention. IMO, a dog doesn't know the difference between asking and demanding. All they know is what they want, and they're going to try to do what works to get it. If you don't care about terms, why insist on defending one (dominance) which is so misunderstand and misused?

[Guest lynne893]

Greta, our cuddle bug greyhound, totally does this to us. You describe it exactly!

 

Greta is such an attention hound, i've never thought it could be anything else besides "I love you Mommy and Daddy, don't stop petting me!"

[Guest Brindle2Black]

Oh yea! All the time! She LOVES her belly rubs! If you don't respond right away, she usually moans and groans, crawls closer, paws you, or just stares a hole through you!

[Guest KatyC]

Yeah it is definitely a loving thing we think. She is getting more and more affectionate, even did a little smile yesterday. She still doesn't like to lay in the lounge with us though. The other day we gave her a raw hyde bone and shut the lounge door and eventually she lay on her bed in the lounge and chewed it for almost 2 hours, so we will keep doing this so she gets used to the lounge being associated with special things like bones.

We have found that she loves to be manhandled too (not sure if that's the correct word!) she loves you to move her around physically, lift her legs and head up and push her onto her back. It's very funny!

She looks at me in the eyes while I'm stroking her as well most of the time which is lovely

[Guest cwholsin]

Hmm...I guess I'm one who doesn't know. I've never heard anyone talking about needing to be dominant over a dog or to "show a dog who's boss" use it in a way that means to give the dog love and attention. IMO, a dog doesn't know the difference between asking and demanding. All they know is what they want, and they're going to try to do what works to get it. If you don't care about terms, why insist on defending one (dominance) which is so misunderstand and misused?

I'm gonna ignore the snark about defending dominance, and go straight to the asking vs. demanding. A dog who is asking for attention will stop asking when you tell them 'not now', a dog who is demanding will continue to pester you til he/she gets what she wants. What 'dominance' or hierarchy, or w/ever has anything to do with this is that our dogs will always respect when we say 'not now'. We don't discourage our dogs from asking! It's personal preference whether or not pawing is considered polite, and I think it's not a problem as long as your dog isn't scratching you (or guests) from pawing so hard!

 

I think our greyhounds antics in response to lovies is adorable! The blissed out expression Hermes makes when we stroke his face makes me melt!

Edited January 30, 2013 by cwholsin

[JJNg]

Not a snark - it was an honest question. I honestly believe that the concept of "dominance" has done much more harm than good to our relationship with dogs and interferes with a true understanding of the nuances of dog behavior. There is no standard definition of the term, and the connotation that the word give to many people is one that implies control and a power struggle.

 

I find that many trainers get so caught up in the idea of dominance, that they use it to explain everything a dog does, and lose sight of really observing and understanding the dog's behavior. Their needs and desires are really no different from ours, and I don't see people explaining everything that humans do in terms of dominance.

 

When you explained your training philosophy and interactions with your dogs, I find that I agree with most of it. Why label it as dominance when it's simply teaching good manners and mutual respect?

 

I do want to comment more on the asking vs demanding concept, but short on time right now and need to head back to work.

[JJNg]

A dog who is asking for attention will stop asking when you tell them 'not now', a dog who is demanding will continue to pester you til he/she gets what she wants. What 'dominance' or hierarchy, or w/ever has anything to do with this is that our dogs will always respect when we say 'not now'. We don't discourage our dogs from asking!

 

I think the distinction between asking and demanding is a human one. Whether a dog will stop an attention-seeking behavior when you tell them 'not now' depends on a lot of factors. Such as whether he has been rewarded for that behavior in the past. Whether he is stressed and hasn't had his social needs met. Whether he is content and secure in his relationship with you to know that he'll get his share of attention when you have time. Even the dog's intrinsic temperament and how much patience and self-control he has.

 

Just because a dog is high strung and perhaps more insistent and demanding doesn't mean he's trying to be dominant and challenging you. In most cases, it's a dog who just hasn't learned the rules, hasn't become secure in his home yet, or perhaps has been (often inadvertently) rewarded for certain attention-seeking behavior in the past. Teaching our dogs to respect when we say 'not now' is about basic manners, mutual trust, and communication. It's very similar to teaching kids to ask for things politely. I don't have kids, so maybe I'm wrong, but I don't get the impression that most people think of teaching children in terms of dominance and hierarchy.

 

And it has nothing to do with dominance or hierarchy for dogs either. In the scientific/ethological sense, dominance refers to priority access to resources, not really about rank or status at all. The idea of pack order and hierarchy was historically extrapolated from wolf studies, and it's been shown that this interpretation of wolf packs wasn't even accurate. Not to mention that the social organization of groups of dogs is different from that of traditional wolf packs.

 

In lay terms, which is how many new/inexperienced dog owners may interpret these terms, the concept of 'dominance' implies a component of control, that if the dog gets what he wants from you, he'll somehow see himself as having a higher status, or some sort of power over you. I really don't believe that dogs think this way at all. They continue to perform behaviors that get them what they want - end of story.

 

Dogs don't take that additional step to abstractly think that if they can make you do what they want, they most be the ones in control and be higher ranked than you. Humans are the ones who think that way, and when we think of our interactions with dogs in those terms, it can negatively affect our mindset and attitude toward our dogs. I don't believe our relationship with dogs should, or needs to, be a power struggle, where we have to exert dominance over dogs in order to get them to behave.

 

I think this thread is a good example of the misinterpretation of dog behavior that it causes. You get new or inexperienced dog owners who become worried about innocent, loving gestures because of what they've heard about dominance theory. They've been led to believe that dogs are trying to take over, that to have a well-behaved dog, we need to control every aspect of their lives, and not let them 'get away with things' or manipulate us.

 

I once attended a talk given by a representative of a large training franchise, and I was dismayed by how everything a dog did was attributed to dominance. If it wasn't so sad, it would almost have been amusing.

 

The speaker recommended not taking a dog outside to potty right away when he asked to go because you had to take him out on your terms to establish dominance. He claimed that dogs showing submissive behavior were actually being passively dominant and manipulative. He even spent part of the talk discussing separation anxiety and said that it was caused by a lack of leadership and that anxious behavior should be corrected. What's even sadder is that people listen to speakers like this and take to heart what they say.