The Sa Saga -- First Noise Complaint

[Guest dougbb]

We have had Doug about seven weeks now, and knew from day one that he had separation anxiety. Not the chewing or the peeing kind, but the pitiable howling kind that's just so sad to hear when returning home from work and errands. I've heard that alone-time howling is common in greyhounds, and that time (and lots of alone training! which we have been doing!) will do its work. But we live in an apartment building in close quarters with neighbors, so we don't exactly have time on our side.

 

We have been doing alone training religiously since day one and have had some good results leaving Doug in the living room, by the front door. But from our recordings, it became clear that noises from the stairwell -- doors shutting, voices, etc. -- was setting off the bouts of howling, which is why is would occur so randomly (sometimes after 45 minutes, sometimes after 5). In a stroke of what seemed like genius, we bought a baby gate and started alone training Doug in the bedroom, away from the front door. Success! After gobbling up his Kong treats, he'd come to the baby gate, whine a bit, maybe trot around the room, then lie down. We were able to leave him up to two hours like this, getting only periodic little whimperings -- nothing that would disturb our neighbors. Such relief! We could work, run errands, even see friends without concern!

 

Fast-forward to this weekend. My boyfriend was out of town, and I had to work both days, so though I brought Doug to daycare on Saturday, today I left him baby-gated for one 2-hour period and one 3-hour window. (It should have been 2-hour window but I got stuck in traffic -- LA, sigh.) I heard him howling when I returned from the first period, but assumed it was simply a more exaggerated version of his whimperings. I took him for a good long walk between the two periods, but when I came home the second time, I could hear Doug barking (barking! not just howling!) from all the way out in the garage, which is quite a distance. I also came home to a noise complaint email from my downstairs neighbor -- a remarkably understanding, polite email, but one that made clear that three hours of intermittent barking on a Sunday was not fun to listen to.

 

I also feel badly for Doug -- to think that he had to go through so much anxiety today! I suppose I'm back to square one with alone training. I'm a bit frustrated, of course -- but mostly I'm posting to hear advice from those of you who have dealt with a similar situation with their hounds. Was it just a matter of time before your dog could be alone & quiet for more than half an hour? Did you have multiple set-backs before the alone training did its job? Should we at this point, with one noise complaint under our belt, consult a behaviorist?

 

A few other things:

- We always leave him Kongs stuffed with kibble and a bit of peanut butter. I would love to put more delicious things inside, but Doug has a very sensitive GI track. I would love to put treats that are trickier to dislodge inside, but Doug gets lazy and then the whining/howling often begins earlier.

- We ignore him for 5-10 minutes before leaving and 5-10 minutes after arriving home, and scoop up the Kongs as soon as we open up the baby gate.

- We always leave some talk radio on -- my neighbor thinks that maybe the volume is too loud, which is making Doug bark even louder. We'll put it quieter in the future.

- I have read the Patricia McConnell pamphlet -- useful! It's taken us to where we are now, but it focuses more on the triggers, which don't seem to be the locus of Doug's anxiety.

- Per some other posts, I've also tried hiding out in the house and, when I hear the howling, just yelling a good, firm, ENOUGH. I did that once, and it seemed to work like a charm . . . but now that the howling's back, I don't want to correct in case that just adds to his anxiety.

- I work from home, but have started instituting mandatory baby-gate session to get Doug used to being alone -- it seems to be helping. He never falls asleep during these times, but he'll sit quietly, with whimperings every half hour or so.

 

By the way, I'm going to post photos of Doug doing cute and funny things in the Cute and Funny Things forum. Proof that he does so much more outside of howling!

[Feisty49]

Wish I had some advice but I don't, just empathy. This must be very difficult and make you anxious also. You want your baby to be happy and you want your neighbors happy also. Annie Bella sometimes exhibits a bit of SA, that lasts maybe 90 seconds, but I live in a big house with lots of space around it, so nobody but me can hear it.

[Guest june]

So sorry you and Doug are going through this. Doug is so lucky to have you! Sounds like you are doing everything to help him though this. Wish I had more to offer. Hang in there. I'd maybe talk to the neighbor who emailed and explain what you are doing to help Doug get over his SA especially since it was a nice email.

Good luck.

[Guest auforygirl]

If you put the radio on the spanish channel it might help more, and turned up a good bit so he can't hear the outside noise. as for the Kong plain yogurt with banana chips capped with PB frozen overnight does really well for pretty girl and she licks it out like a ice cream cone.

Also on the weekends it should be pretty easy to find someone to walk him every now and again.

[Jimbuck]

I can relate to what your going through. My dog Freddy has SA that I've been working with him on since I got him over 2 months ago. I had a note on the door the first day I left him alone for work, it was anonymous (and rude) so it was even worse that I couldn't pin point the problem. We live in a condo so we also have neighbors and the association that we want to keep happy. We have done tons of alone training and he has made some progress but also has setbacks, especially after a weekend. I also recommend talking to the neighbors and getting them on the same wave length that your actively working on this. It's nice that your neighbor is understanding of the issue. The crying and howling can be just awful to listen to. If you don't video tape I'd give that a shot and seeing what may be setting Doug off.

 

Sorry I can't offer up a quick fix to the issue. Just wanted to chime in and say you are not alone when it comes to SA! I ended up resorting to anti-anxiety medication probably 5 weeks ago and along with TONS of continued alone training, I've been seeing some small improvements. I'd search the forums and dig around in threads regarding SA. Tons of good advice around there that might help you out. Good luck!

[Guest mariah]

Thank your neighbor for bringing this to your attention and for being so understanding and let her know that you're taking steps to remedy the problem. Maybe give her your cell number so that she can call if any issues come up? Having a good relationship with the neighbors will be very helpful while you're working with Doug on this, so it's great that yours seem to be pretty understanding.

 

It does sound like you're doing the right things. I think unless it's an extreme case (it doesn't sound like it is), this is something that will resolve itself with time and patience. Good luck!

[GeorgeofNE]

Oh dear. Been there, done that!

 

My case was a little different. 1) It was a condo, so I didn't have to worry about my landlord tossing me out, and 2) I was chairman of the condo board, so really, what could anyone do? and 3) and this is the key one, my dog was crated. When I stopped crating him, he stopped howling. And he was HOWLING. At the top of his lungs for hours on end. I know 'cause I videotaped him since I thought my neighbors were exaggerating. They were not.

 

 

Things you didn't mention doing yet: DAP diffuser. May not do a thing, but won't hurt. Music instead of talk radio. Rumor has it country music is very popular in track kennels.

 

That's all I've got for you! Besides making VERY nice with the neighbors that is!

[Guest sheila]

what talk radio are you playing for him? If it's Rush Limbaugh.......heck I would howl too!

Perhaps he would prefer music over talk. See if you can find out what he was used to hearing before you adopted him and see if that helps.

[Guest dougbb]

If you put the radio on the spanish channel it might help more, and turned up a good bit so he can't hear the outside noise. as for the Kong plain yogurt with banana chips capped with PB frozen overnight does really well for pretty girl and she licks it out like a ice cream cone.

Also on the weekends it should be pretty easy to find someone to walk him every now and again.

 

A Spanish channel is a good idea -- he spent the bulk of his racing career at Caliente in Tijuana, so, hey, it could be familiar. Part of the noise complaint was the volume on the radio, so we'll have to keep it relatively low, but hopefully loud enough that he doesn't get fixated on sounds from outside. Doug's GI isn't awesome with yogurt, but yogurt, banana and pb sounds good to me! (Getting close to lunch time here...) I'll certainly give it a shot with Doug.

[Guest Capslock]

My third grey, Otis, was bounced for SA before I got him. He had a barking and whining problem when I was gone - got a note from the neighbors once. Eventually, he just cured himself as he got more comfortable with the daily rhythms. Sometimes time is the best cure.

 

Have you considered a second hound? That does the trick a lot of times.

[Guest dougbb]

I can relate to what your going through. My dog Freddy has SA that I've been working with him on since I got him over 2 months ago. I had a note on the door the first day I left him alone for work, it was anonymous (and rude) so it was even worse that I couldn't pin point the problem. We live in a condo so we also have neighbors and the association that we want to keep happy. We have done tons of alone training and he has made some progress but also has setbacks, especially after a weekend. I also recommend talking to the neighbors and getting them on the same wave length that your actively working on this. It's nice that your neighbor is understanding of the issue. The crying and howling can be just awful to listen to. If you don't video tape I'd give that a shot and seeing what may be setting Doug off.

 

Sorry I can't offer up a quick fix to the issue. Just wanted to chime in and say you are not alone when it comes to SA! I ended up resorting to anti-anxiety medication probably 5 weeks ago and along with TONS of continued alone training, I've been seeing some small improvements. I'd search the forums and dig around in threads regarding SA. Tons of good advice around there that might help you out. Good luck!

 

Good to hear there are others who can relate! And I'm happy to hear that Freddy's SA has improved a bit. I actually sent a letter to many of my neighbors a few weeks ago explaining racing greyhounds' backgrounds, how SA is common with them, what we're doing to work through it, etc. That's actually how my downstairs neighbors had my email address (and most likely why their email was so understanding). I'd love to hear how the alone training is working out for Freddy down the line. Good luck to you too!

 

Oh dear. Been there, done that!

 

My case was a little different. 1) It was a condo, so I didn't have to worry about my landlord tossing me out, and 2) I was chairman of the condo board, so really, what could anyone do? and 3) and this is the key one, my dog was crated. When I stopped crating him, he stopped howling. And he was HOWLING. At the top of his lungs for hours on end. I know 'cause I videotaped him since I thought my neighbors were exaggerating. They were not.

 

 

Things you didn't mention doing yet: DAP diffuser. May not do a thing, but won't hurt. Music instead of talk radio. Rumor has it country music is very popular in track kennels.

 

That's all I've got for you! Besides making VERY nice with the neighbors that is!

 

Whoops, forgot to mention that one: yes, we have a DAP diffuser. No idea whether it's helping or not, but it's there, we'll probably end up getting refills -- sigh. Country music! I'll try that one out.

[Guest dougbb]

what talk radio are you playing for him? If it's Rush Limbaugh.......heck I would howl too!

Perhaps he would prefer music over talk. See if you can find out what he was used to hearing before you adopted him and see if that helps.

 

[Guest dougbb]

My third grey, Otis, was bounced for SA before I got him. He had a barking and whining problem when I was gone - got a note from the neighbors once. Eventually, he just cured himself as he got more comfortable with the daily rhythms. Sometimes time is the best cure.

 

Have you considered a second hound? That does the trick a lot of times.

 

Oh, this is exactly what I like to hear! How long would you say it took for him to become comfortable with your comings and goings? I know every hound is different -- this is more about getting a time-frame for the neighbors, and an idea of when "curing himself" probably won't work and we should hire a behaviorist.

 

Oh, I would love another dog, but our apartment is small and, more importantly, our contract specifies one dog only. The lease is up summer after next, so maybe in two years? Here's hoping Doug's SA resolves itself by then!

[GeorgeofNE]

A behaviorist can only tell you things to try. They can't "cure" the SA.

 

I didn't notice if you'd tried crating him? Crating caused my dog's problem, but my PRIOR dog freaked out if he WASN'T in a crate. For some dogs, it truly is their safe haven.

 

Yogurt gives my dog diarrhea; not quite sure why so many people on GT are so high on yogurt, but don't give it to him if it upsets his stomach! I just use peanut butter in George's Kong. I smear the peanut butter around the inner surface. I used to toss a few milk bones in there too, but he never got them out.

 

After I stopped crating him, one of my neighbors (I did the note/email/phone number thing to all my neighbors as well!) came over and said, "I hope you didn't get rid of your Greyhound because of ME because I was willing to put up with it for a while!" and she was so suprised to see him standing behind me wagging his tail. She couldn't believe it!

 

One thing the behavior specialist I spoke to suggested I try seemed a little silly, but it's worth a go! Do you have an answering machine? The older kind where you can hear the person who is leaving a message? She had me calling George 30 minutes after I left, then again in an hour, etc. Just so he'd know I hadn't disappeared entirely.

 

I don't know about that one, but I thought I'd pass it on!

 

Any chance you could consider a cat as a companion? I do think that helped my last dog--when I got him a pet!

[Guest happygrey]

My third grey, Otis, was bounced for SA before I got him. He had a barking and whining problem when I was gone - got a note from the neighbors once. Eventually, he just cured himself as he got more comfortable with the daily rhythms. Sometimes time is the best cure.

 

Have you considered a second hound? That does the trick a lot of times.

Yes, sometimes it just comes down to time.We did all that you did and even tried reconcile (doggie Prozac). In the end, it really just took the passage of time.

 

Hope things improve soon! It sure can be frustrating. You sound very understanding.

Edited March 16, 2012 by happygrey

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

Yes, I can relate as I am sure many on here can. Star was a bounce due to his crying and whining. I was lucky that I have a large lot and the neighbors can't hear a thing. This will not be much consolation right now, but I think with most, it just takes time. After the repetition of leaving and coming back, they learn that you will always come back and the crying gets less and less. For Star, it took about 2 or 3 months and then he never peeped again and was the perfect Greyhound.

Maybe if you leave for 5 minutes and come back several times a day, it will speed the process. Good luck and hug your baby. I miss my Star so much.

[Guest gomiesmom]

O.k. - this may or may not help you , since you are in an apartment situation.(If you have not done so already, talk to your adoption group director too ) But -- my Gomer had horrible SA; Whining, tearing up bedding in kennel, broke out of the crate, etc.

We had him in a kennel in our bedroom & he was wailing. Panicked, i sought help from my adoption group director.

She immediately asked if I still had the kennel in the Bedroom, where it was when she brought him to me; yes I did, she suggested we move it inot our great room. She suggested he may be thinking we were putting him in the kennel in the bedroom, but were still in the house ( I don't know, maybe sneak partying--- without him??????) Anyway, SA stopped immediately; seriously, immediately.

Again, not sure if it will help due to the apartment thing, but this cured my guy. Also, chock the kong full of P-Butter, but Freeze the PB in the kong overnight, it takes them longer to get through it.

After the SA; and a few months of frozen PB kongs, all i had to do each morning was put my hand on the freezer, and Gomie bounded into his kennel.

Best of Luck - I know what you are going through!