Aything New For Seizures?

[Guest JudiK]

my poor Rose began seizing in the racing kennel in late spring of 2007. She came to me in June - I thought that with a good vet and modern medicine, I could put her in right within a couple of months. When she arrived, she was seizing about every three weeks. Now she is eating a raw diet, taking 200 mg of Potassium Bromide and 120 mg of Phenobarb at 4 am and another 120 mg of Phenobarb at 4 pm. She seizes every 2-3 weeks. She has gained 20 pounds. She is blowing coat like crazy and limping pitifully. This morning when the alarm went off at 4 am, I was surprised to see her standing by my bed - then I realized that she was not standing but leaning and was just going into a grand mal seizure. Within the hour I managed to get her meds into her and go back to bed for an hour - I had to get up at 6 today to get two fosters to the vet for spay/neuter/dental... Rose came along to get blood drawn and levels checked. I was just checking everyone in and filling out paperwork (about 8:30 am) when Rose went down in another grand mal - at least Doc has seen one now. Then - I had everyone back in the van and headed home (about 12:30 pm) - I was in the passing lane in a very congested traffic zone when the fosters began screeching and I heard the rhythmic pounding begin. As I tried to navigate myself into a position where I could get off the road, a new noise began - it was like a whimper and a wheeze. I dove off of the road as soon as I got to a space where I could do so - and wound up sitting under an underpass in an emergency stopping zone. Rose was wedged down in the well where the side sliding door on the van moves, her neck was compressed so that she could not breathe! I dove between the front seats, breaking the cup holders in my dash on the way over. Adrenaline really is amazing - I picked up that portly 80 pound greyhound as if she was a rat terrier! As I laid her back down on the dog bed back there I looked around and realized what a treacherous place the van was in, so I jumped back up front and moved it. It was another 30 minutes before I got home but she was in no hurry to leave the van - I took both of the fosters in the house and crated them and she still hadn't gotten up. When I came back by myself I just sat in the van with her and coaxed her for a while until she decided to get up. She has been back in my bedroom ever since we got back - she never does that. And about an hour ago she seized again. Doc told me to add melatonin three times a day - she was on that before the phenobarb... I just got the okay to give her three valium rectally in the hope that it will stop this cluster. Does anyone know of anything that I'm not already doing? BTW - Rose is my avatar. This is her with my Devon and Pere at Dewey last year - before the phenobarb and the 20 pound weight gain.

 

Edited March 14, 2008 by JudiK

[TheFullHouse]

I think I would see if your vet won't give you some valium for her. She's gone basically into spaced out cluster seizures. I'm surprised that he didn't give her some at the office. If she's put on 20lbs. that's quite a lot of weight for her to be carrying around. I'd see about adjusting her meals and see if she won't drop some of the weight. She's on a low dose of Potassium Bromide and Pheno at this time, you might ask the vet to raise it a little and see if that doesn't help.

 

 

Edited to add: just to give you something to compare to, Saint weighs 90lbs, that's his racing weight and he is on 1000 mg. of Potassium Bromide twice a day and 600 mg. of Pheno. He is maxed out on the meds but has been controlled for 3 1/2 years now.

Edited March 13, 2008 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest EmilyAnne]

I hear a lot of cluster pups do well with potassium bromide. My Henry does. Maybe you could give the potassium bromide twice daily instead of once daily? Also, have her liver values checked. Liver disease can trigger seizures. And help her lose the weight. I know, it's harder to do on the meds. Have you learned about taurine and taurine rich meats yet? Are you part of the EpilK9 list? They taught me so much. Do you know about the ice in a bag trick? I did this for Henry's last seizure, and I dont know if it was coincidence or not, but the seizure did stop within only a few seconds. If you want to know more about either of these things I mentioned, tell me and I will give you links I have bookmarked. Do you know about raw fish andthiaminase? Our Henry cannot handle raw fish. He is currently recovering from us finding that out the hard way.

[Guest JudiK]

Oh Judy, I'm so glad you're here tonight! I just feel that I have allowed this dog to become a mess - she came here in trouble and I have been so kind that I've been cruel. I lost two twelve year old greyhounds in the past two years - I always free fed them and they never gained weight. I have three other greyhounds of my own and they are all at good weights... and then there is Rose. I have tried to put her on diets before. My dogs just HATE being fed in confined places (like separate rooms) - they refuse to eat. I switched to Blue Buffalo a few weeks ago to increase the protein level and decrease the volume for the entire pack - if I separate them at meal time they don't eat. Well, I found this stuff called Nature's Variety - I buy the frozen, thaw it out and all but one of my dogs will eat even if they are in separate rooms. I have to stay with the one, and pet her until she finishes, but she will eat most of her food - even though she is freaked out about the door being closed. My alpha male is on a hunger strike, despite the raw - he wants his Blue Buffalo, in the bowl, in the kitchen, available to him whenever he feels like eating... It's breaking my heart, but I can't let his food be available that way ever again. I don't know how long it will take for Rose to lose the weight, but I know that I can't cave in this time.

 

Doc took blood today to check whether she can safely increase the meds - the last time she took blood she felt that it was not safe to increase the phenobarb - she said that "the levels" were already too high. I'm hoping that she can increase the potassium bromide. All I can do now is wait for today's tests to come back... I gave her 6 mg of Valium rectally just before I posted the first time... I think I can do that three times before I have to call Doc again. I'm supposed to do it after each seizure in the cluster... Do you know what the upper end for valium is?

 

I hear a lot of cluster pups do well with potassium bromide. My Henry does. Maybe you could give the potassium bromide twice daily instead of once daily? Also, have her liver values checked. Liver disease can trigger seizures. And help her lose the weight. I know, it's harder to do on the meds. Have you learned about taurine and taurine rich meats yet? Are you part of the EpilK9 list? They taught me so much. Do you know about the ice in a bag trick? I did this for Henry's last seizure, and I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but the seizure did stop within only a few seconds. If you want to know more about either of these things I mentioned, tell me and I will give you links I have bookmarked. Do you know about raw fish andthiaminase? Our Henry cannot handle raw fish. He is currently recovering from us finding that out the hard way.

I don't know about any of these things!! Please give me links! I'm so desperate and feeling totally inadequate.

Edited March 14, 2008 by JudiK

[tbhounds]

Pheno can made a dog very hungry--sure that's were the weight gain came from. How about asking your vet about adding Gabapentin to your medication protocol? At the very least I would ask to a script for Valium suppositories so you can get through these seizure clusters.

[Guest EmilyAnne]

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/taurine.htm

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...rgencycare.html

 

Also, make sure there is no rosemary or sage in Rose's food. The rosemary issue is confusing, I just avoid both to be safe.

 

How long has Rose been on the raw diet? Did she start both seizure meds right away when you adopted her? When did she start them? The side effects are worst when they have not reached their full effectiveness yet. As they reach effectiveness, the symptoms usually are not as bad, though usually there are always some symptoms. I'll take the symptom of weak rear end over seizures any day!

 

 

Meanwhile, make sure you take care of yourself through all this. Eat healthy food, get good rest when you can, and wear comfy clothes. You can do this!

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Here is a link about Gold Bead implants. I havent tried this myself yet.

 

http://www.himmlisch.com/goldbeads.htm

 

And here is a link about 'ocular compression', I havent tried that yet either. (I've only had Henry for 5 months)

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Ocularcompression.html

[Guest EmilyAnne]

Something to consider, without pheno, Rose can have a higher dose of potassium bromide. It all depends on which med seems to work the best, or if the combo is what works best for Rose. Talk this all over with your vet.

[TheFullHouse]

I'm not quite sure what the upper end for valium is but I once had to drug a hound 3 separate times until he was almost unconscious for the seizures to stop. The vet said I had successfully stopped them, even though we had to carry him in to the vet's office.

 

As far as the eating problem, I put their food down and if they eat, they eat and if they don't, well they will the next meal. They won't starve to death, honestly, it's instinctual for them to eat to survive, at least that's what my vet told me. Hounds have a way of controlling meal time if you let them, they're smart little buggers! I free fed once and had a dog that was way over weight and have never free fed again. I feed mine in crates now but when I had 5 I fed them all in the dining room and just watched until they were done. I'd give them 15 minutes, which is more than enough, mine will eat in 5 and if they hadn't eaten by the time 15 minutes were up I just pulled up the bowls and they waited until dinner. It only takes a couple of times for them to figure out that if they don't eat they're going to be hungry.

 

As far as Rose, if she won't eat a meal, give her meds to her in a piece of cheese or peanut butter. If her only problem is eating alone, if you could feed her with another hound in the room and just watch them closely it might solve the problem. Saint tried to convince me he was starving to death on his meds. He would yell and cry at me. If I thought he was really hungry I would give him a small doggie cookie, not the large ones. That would keep him happy until meal time, although he is the first one to remind me it's time to eat!

 

See if your vet won't up the dosage of the Potassium Bromide if she's not comfortable with raising her Pheno. You may find that that is all it takes to give you better control over her seizures.

 

I'll keep you both in my prayers, and please let me know how she's doing.

[Trudy]

There is still plenty of room to up the dose of Pb and KBr if needed as long as liver results come back ok. Even if the results show above therapeutic levels... seizures every 3 weeks can likely be controlled better if you aren't maxing out on med doses.

You can also ask about Gabapentin. It's more expensive than the others, but it is another option - all 3 can be taken if needed.