Getting The Tick Panel Done

[Guest jupiterooos]

I've been putting it off because I am still paying off the last rounds of tests that showed nothing, but DH said we have to do what we can to find out what's wrong, and he'll pay for it

 

Aaaanyway. Here's a summary:

 

-Lots of pee. Very dilute. Getting worse over time.

 

-He does not have a UTI or kidney trouble that they have found yet.

 

-He does have occasional transitory lameness and lethargy.

 

-Off-and-on Big D, right now he is on the two-week boiled chicken and rice plan, and he is still not passing good stools. He had diarrhea inside yesterday, and this morning he pooped orange goop.

 

Which seems to be consistent with a possible tick problem. But I was wondering what diseases they should be checking for? Do they just look for everything or do you need to request certain things? Not sure which lab my vet uses, but I do know it isn't Protatek. I also know this is going to be pricey - when the vet says "We can do it but it will be expensive," it means sign over your next two paychecks, basically.

 

 

[Guest SillyDog]

It's not THAT pricey. I think it's about $100 for the basic tick panel. That's what you should start with. Then, if that comes back negative you might want to consider running the less common tick tests.

[Batmom]

Has he had a comprehensive blood test? First-of-the-morning check of his urine for specific gravity? Two rounds of Panacur for worms/giardia?

 

I would not be doing tick testing without doing some other things first. You may have already done those other things.

[Burpdog]

Even if you do a basic panel (no matter where - Protatek or NCU), they cannot test for every tick disease, so although you may get a negative, it may or may not be conclusive. Clear as mud?

 

The tick disease issue is much bigger than anyone suspects. I'd start with the panel.

 

Also, try beef & potatoes, or plain beef and see how the poop does and what color it is.

 

 

[Batmom]

But, the dog has classic symptoms of several common illnesses/conditions that are not tick disease. Would it not make sense to do the less costly -- and perhaps more telling -- tests for those first? Particularly since the dog's owner is on a budget?

Edited October 15, 2007 by Batmom

[Guest greyladydown]

The symptoms sound a lot like what my eldest greyhound is going through right now. My guy was found to be postive for ehrlichea risticii. This strain is not part of the normal tick panel and not commonly found in dogs. This led to primary glomerulonephritis which also led to high blood pressure and anemia. A course of Doxy killed the bug, but has not addressed the auto-immune problem which resulted from the TBD. Kidney biopsy confirmed that the kideny was inflamed, but there was no sign of cancer, thankfully. He's being weaned off the steroids and is on azathioprine now. His blood and urine was improving last week and he's going for a recheck on Friday.

 

We have consulted with Dr. Couto at OSU and he said that he's seeing a lot cases like this at his clinic.

[Guest jupiterooos]

Has he had a comprehensive blood test? First-of-the-morning check of his urine for specific gravity? Two rounds of Panacur for worms/giardia?

 

I would not be doing tick testing without doing some other things first. You may have already done those other things.

 

Yes to the blood test and urine check, no to the Panacur (he was on something else...can't remember the name).

 

I wish it was a little more clear-cut. It feels like we're spending all this money and trying everything, and not getting anywhere, and still there is no conclusion.

 

The symptoms sound a lot like what my eldest greyhound is going through right now. My guy was found to be postive for ehrlichea risticii. This strain is not part of the normal tick panel and not commonly found in dogs. This led to primary glomerulonephritis which also led to high blood pressure and anemia. A course of Doxy killed the bug, but has not addressed the auto-immune problem which resulted from the TBD. Kidney biopsy confirmed that the kideny was inflamed, but there was no sign of cancer, thankfully. He's being weaned off the steroids and is on azathioprine now. His blood and urine was improving last week and he's going for a recheck on Friday.

 

We have consulted with Dr. Couto at OSU and he said that he's seeing a lot cases like this at his clinic.

 

Just out of curiosity, did your dog have elevated bilirubin in his urine?

[Batmom]

Did anything at all come of the blood test, urine test, stool check? Of course it won't hurt to get a tick panel -- when in doubt, do it! -- but the urinating if not drinking much sounds much more like either separation anxiety or some type of endocrine or kidney problem.

 

Stool problems -- if the dog seems to basically feel good, I'd try a radical food change first. Some of these guys just don't do well on some brands of food. Usually it is more a problem of the brand and its common ingredients than it is of one protein versus another.

 

Has your vet had suggestions, other than warning that the tick panel will be pricy?

[Guest jupiterooos]

I think there is an emotional component to this - he does tend to be able to hold it a lot longer when we are home. He can hold it for eight hours (usually) at night, but not during the day when we are at work. But he does pee massively, amounts that always made me think something else could be wrong.

 

The tests turned up nothing, aside from showing that his urine was dilute and he has elevated levels of bilirubin.

[Guest greyladydown]

Has he had a comprehensive blood test? First-of-the-morning check of his urine for specific gravity? Two rounds of Panacur for worms/giardia?

 

I would not be doing tick testing without doing some other things first. You may have already done those other things.

 

Yes to the blood test and urine check, no to the Panacur (he was on something else...can't remember the name).

 

I wish it was a little more clear-cut. It feels like we're spending all this money and trying everything, and not getting anywhere, and still there is no conclusion.

 

The symptoms sound a lot like what my eldest greyhound is going through right now. My guy was found to be postive for ehrlichea risticii. This strain is not part of the normal tick panel and not commonly found in dogs. This led to primary glomerulonephritis which also led to high blood pressure and anemia. A course of Doxy killed the bug, but has not addressed the auto-immune problem which resulted from the TBD. Kidney biopsy confirmed that the kideny was inflamed, but there was no sign of cancer, thankfully. He's being weaned off the steroids and is on azathioprine now. His blood and urine was improving last week and he's going for a recheck on Friday.

 

We have consulted with Dr. Couto at OSU and he said that he's seeing a lot cases like this at his clinic.

 

Just out of curiosity, did your dog have elevated bilirubin in his urine?

 

Yes!

[Guest mandm]

Even if your vet does not normally deal with Protatek, you can still send the sample there for testing. The standard tick panel is about $60 and e. risticii or other add-ons are very reasonable (maybe $20?). Your vet would get the prep instructions from Protatek and draw and prep the blood (should cost less than $20) and then you overnight the sample to Protatek (probably $40 - $50 from Chicago.) Your vet can call Protatek to get recommendations for which TBDs to test for. You can start with the basic panel. If that comes back negative, you can order more tests on the same sample. Protatek holds the sample for a while, not sure how long. I'm guessing that since you have already spent so much money, your vet should be willing to work with you on this.

[Guest jupiterooos]

I will see if we can do that. I believe babesia was not among the illnesses our vet tests for, and that's one I'd like to rule out.

 

We are also doing a fecal, as I realized he hasn't had one in ages, and he's had Big D issues lately.

 

Going to the vet on Friday, again.

Edited October 17, 2007 by jupiterooos

[Guest mandm]

If you are going to get a tick panel, then you GOTTA get babesia Canis. And erhlicia Canis -- which is common enough in other breeds to be widely offered. But b. Canis is really only common in G/Hs, so I think it is not commonly offered as a tick titer option. But you have to insist.

[Guest metgirl23]

I used University of NC for my last tick testing. They do research into tick diseases.

I wanted testing for BAbesia via PCR(yes or NO test not a titer).

They do take blood samples from vets and you can pick the testing you want. YOur vet may charge you a fee to draw the blood. My prior vet refused stating billing issues. I went to a different vet(one my greyhound group uses) who was willing to do what was necessary with NO fee other than what University of NC charged.

 

I have had 2 dogs with tick problems so I have done a lot or research. If you want to test for Babesia the best test is PCR test. Erlichois is the regular titer.. There are multiple strains.

Here is a link to University of NC.

 

http://www.cvm.ncsu.edu/docs/ticklab.html

 

On some of your dog's other symptoms. You might want to as your vet about pancreatic insuffiency symdrome. Basically the pancreas is malfunctioning and dog does not absorb nutruients in food. My first greyhound had this and it took a while for them to figure out. It doesnt have all the symptoms of your dog but could explain lethargy, weight lose,very loose stools.

 

Best of luck. Its hard to find the answers sometimes..

[Guest jupiterooos]

We went to the vet this morning, and had a good chat about all of his issues. His vet thinks that given the fact that he improved on Clavamox is significant, even though he did not have a UTI at the time. He is going to check and see if any of the tick-related illnesses react to meds in the Clavamox family. His thinking is, if there is a reaction, that would strongly indicate TBI. If none of the TBIs respond to that kind of meds, then it's probably something else. Since clearly the Clavamox was helping SOMETHING, this makes sense to me. So he took lots of blood and a fecal, and he's going to call me later today to discuss the options.