GreytXpctations
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Posts posted by GreytXpctations
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What about just breaking the drontal in half so he can swallow them easier and you can divide the dose up into two or three halves depending on his dosage? I haven't really had a lot of luck with crushing, but half a pill wrapped in a small piece of cheese slice followed by a cookie gets swallowed without chewing or even tasting.
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The link in the prison doc for the Advocate also has Drontal Plus at a good price. Amazon has it as well under Drontal and Bayer Quad, but the price varies a lot. None of those places require a prescription.
It's crazy to have that many eggs in his stool only a week after treatment. They have to be adult to lay new eggs, and the adults should have all been knocked out by the Panacur, which if it was Merck Safeguard dewormer for goats, was the same thing I used the last time.
Maybe the drontal will work better if he can tolerate it.
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Since I have a lot of trouble getting Drontal into Percy, I thought I'd just try panacur and advocate together and see what that does. So I did that every 2 weeks for 3 months (Sept/Oct/Nov) and he's still infested at the same level (moderate 11-33).
Do you get any blood in the stool after treating? Often with heavy adult infestations, there is blood after they are killed off and detach. We had blood in the first couple of treatments, but not during later treatments when the counts were lower.
Have you been testing your other dog as well? Moderate is a pretty high count for eggs after such aggressive treatment. How long after the last treatment was it?
Sorry for all the questions.
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I noted before that using the both at the same time can cause neurological symptoms (I can no longer find the links) -- it was my understanding that the prison protocol was changed to reflect using each only once a month and separated by 2 weeks.
If they did, they switched back to every two weeks together:
During infestation time:• Every 14 days, we strongly recommend that you treat with both Drontal Plus and Advocate (also knownas Advantage Multi). Not every veterinarian carries these medications so at the end we will tell you whereyou can get them.Use Drontal Plus XL (35kg), every 14 days (2 weeks). At the same time, also use Advocate (aka AdvantageMulti) every 14 days. Both on the same day. Continue until the hookworm is gone. The good news – thisworks. The bad news, in case of heavy infestation, it can take 5-6 months. Our practice is to dose the newarrivals on New Dog Day and continue to dose every 14 days until adoption. Then we suggest the adoptercontinues the dosing until hookworm is gone.This was from the July 2018 update. The prison paper was also updated in 02/2018 and 11/2017 to my knowledge. -
The vet said Strongid is similar, but it only has one ingredient instead of 3.
Strongid has pyrantel which is in Drontal and HG+. That is a big reason why I have stuck with HG+ over the years, but I don't know that it would be any more effective or less upsetting than panacur at a higher dose.
We had success with the goat version of panacur so far. Also used the big size tube of the Advocate with it. We purchased each at the links listed above in this thread. Earlier attempts with either panacur or drontal varients along with the monthly HG+ had no lasting results. Cita is still on the Advocate.
eta: Sorry Bizeebee, looks like I was repeating what you said.
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Negative again!
I will be keeping Cita on the Advocate monthly until retesting again in 3 months.
Hobbes goes back on HG+ for Dec 1st. and Carlos stays on HG+. Everyone seems healthy.
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I am very sorry for your loss.
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I'm retesting in another 2 weeks but so far everything seems ok. There are no obvious tell-tale signs since the last negative test at least. I think the last test was about 6 or 7 weeks ago.
The prison protocol was the only thing that has worked for our newest dog. The old standard of the treat and treat again in three weeks with Panacur or Drontal, plus the regular monthly Heartguard Plus only killed off the adults and they kept coming back.
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Sorry for your loss.
Treats for everyone tonight.
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Drontal makes one of my dogs throw up if she gets the full dose all at once, plus not want to eat and be very lethargic for a couple of days. I usually break the pill in half and give it to her in two doses six hours apart with a food that is not her regular every day food. I gave her the Advantage multi the next day. The others could do a full dose of Drontal Plus all at once without issues other than being a bit lethargic. They are bigger, but also get a bigger dose. I switched them to Panacur/Safeguard because she tolerates it much better, but it is a three day dose, so I started it a couple days earlier then gave the Advantage Multi on the 4th day. I think the reaction just depends on the dog.
Drontal Plus causing vomiting is definitely not unheard of.
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Sorry for your loss. I agree with better a day too soon, than a day too late.
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That is very good news. I will be testing my pack again in two months and am hoping for similar news.
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Suddenly soft with mucus could be parasites. Hookworm can be picked up just by walking through the grass patch outside of PetSmart, and may not show symptoms for a month or so. Or, your food manufacturer could have changed the formula. Both are things that we have gone through here this year, with similar results.
If you haven't opened a new bag of food around the same time that this started, then it is likely not that. Hooks can be picked up anywhere, and depending where in the country you are, whipworm can show the same symptoms.
Those are the first two things to come to mind, given the info provided. Have you had him long? 5 years old could be fresh off the track or several years.
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If the food really is working, then i see no sense in changing it. I kept my Frida on the same (as yours) food for years for the same reason. She came from the rescue with that food and it worked for her. I currently have one on a specific Canidae and another two on Eukanuba LB because that is what works for them. We also have have gone through the prison protocol for hooks. There really is no hard and fast rule for greyhound food, although many swear by foods with beet pulp in order to keep things firm.
After a month on the treatment, the adult hooks should be killed off and you will just be managing newly hatched larva, so it shouldn't be like an advanced case where the dog's nutrition is going all to the worms. He should probably be putting on any lost weight by now. If his appetite and digestion are affected, it may be more from the meds than from the hooks at this point.
There is a thread started by cgs, titled Hookworm on this site. Please feel free to join in and share your experiences. We have had varying levels of success and other related food/digestion issues with the hooks, so your contributions are appreciated as we work together to nail down a decisive treatment. Thanks, and welcome aboard!
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I am very sorry for your loss.
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Thanks.
You're welcome.
I meant to ask you how your other dog is getting along. If I recall correctly, she was still on HG+ and hook free through all of this, much like my oldest.
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Has anyone been successful in eradicating hookworms by using the Prison Greyhound Program hookworm protocol to the letter?
I followed a version of it, but at 3 week intervals instead of two, so not exactly to the letter.. We just got our second negative test a little while ago. The vet is suggesting that we continue with the Advantage Multi until at least the end of the year.
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Also, is there a better/cheaper way to get this than panacur c or a good place to get panacur c?
http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/322685-hookworm/page-7?do=findComment&comment=6068498
page 7 of this thread, post 132, PaddyDad posted a bunch of links, including a liquid version of Safeguard/Panacur
This is what I also switched to afterward.
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So would there be anything wrong with just keeping him on advantage multi forevermore? I see comments about length of treatment with a view to eventually stopping the advantage multi. Maybe thats in places that you need to use monthly heartworm preventive so would prefer to go back to a single monthly? I had been using bravecto for fleas so I could just use this instead and also treat and prevent worms..
I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping them on the advantage multi forever. The HG+ is just so much easier for us and less of a bother for the dogs. Either way, I need to keep them on a year round heartworm preventative. I usually only add a topical for fleas and ticks about three times a year.
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From what my vet has said, some of the hook eggs hatch when the adults are killed off, so if the dog is full of hook eggs from prolonged infection, every time that you kill off the adults, a new batch of larva is released, to eventually become egg laying adults. The cycle is broken when the active ingredient in Advantage Multi (or Advocate if buying from overseas) builds to a steady state in the body (which is how it works against fleas) and the newly hatched larva get killed off when they attach to feed before reaching egg laying age. Eventually your dog will run out of resident eggs to hatch, and the leak is stopped, so to speak. The reason for increasing the dosage to two or three weeks is so that the Advantage Multi gets up to steady state in the body faster.
When products say they control adult hookworm, this apparently means that they kill off the feeding adult hookworm, but do nothing else for eggs or roaming larva. So while your dog may have had a lifetime of a monthly dose of ivermectin, if it has had a major infestation of hooks, it may be full of eggs which just hatch every time the latest batch of adults are killed off. Since the usual ivermectin dosing is monthly, and the hook life cycle from egg to egg laying is 3 weeks, it will become very unlikely that the ivermectin can keep up. So while the adults are killed off -or controlled. There are more than enough eggs to replace them.
This is my understanding as well now. I think that the regular treatments and preventatives just wipe out the adult population and the monthly cycles of things like HG+ still allow for a week of adults to mature and lay eggs every month, building up in the system. The Advantage Multi builds up to a steady state in the body so that when the larva or juvenile hooks latch on to feed, they are killed before they get to the egg laying stage. Gradually the host will run out of eggs, but the number of eggs or severity of the infection will determine the length of treatment.
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How do you know that Hobbes did not have larval leak? Is there a way to tell?
I have had Hobbes for a couple of years now and this is the first time he has had hooks. He had a couple of low positives which were probably new infestations that never really took hold. Larval leak dogs are coming off the track like that, due to hooks not being effectively treated over a long period of time. Cita came to us with hooks and the larval leak situation.
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Did it work? I have completely lost track of who's hook free and who isn't. I started with the prison protocol, but it didn't work. Maybe it would work now that we should have "steady state" in the larval leak problem.
I went on the prison protocol shortly after you started this thread and posted it, but on a three week interval until the negative, then just Advantage Multi monthly. I had tried the usual and the hooks kept coming back. We just got the second negative on the newest dog who was the source of the hooks here. She is still on the Advantage Multi, and I think now that I will keep her on it for the rest of the year regardless of her staying negative.
Hobbes also tested positive for hooks, which he could have picked up at an event or from Cita. Not larval leak, so he cleared faster, but still after multiple treatments and using Advantage Multi. Carlos, my oldest has been on HG+ the whole time and has not had an issue with hooks, and went one round of dewormer just in case. Carlos did not attend any GH events.
I also have two separate fenced yards, so kept the positive and negative dogs separate during turn out times, and picked up everything every time. I have also kept the dogs home and away from other dogs except for a few trips to the vet.
My vet has switched up his protocol a few times this year and is now advising Advantage Multi with Panacur every three weeks until the dogs are negative, and then Advantage Multi monthly for 6 months afterward. Subject to change as new information comes in. He said that so far they are running about 65-70% success which may improve as time goes by.
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I've been treating Lola for hooks, on and off, for almost a year.
So far, it seems to have worked, but I will be retesting in about a month, and staying on the Advantage Multi for at least another 3 months even if the next test is still negative.
I know how frustrated I was when Turbo's came back and that was only after three months
Vet said we could be dealing with this for many more months, years or for the rest of her life.
My plan once Percy is negative is to switch him to Heartguard Plus.
Just wondering how everyone is doing? I haven't been on in awhile and this thread seems to have died. I hope it due to good news all around.
We just got our second negative on Cita and she has been on the Advantage Multi/Advocate monthly since the first negative. Hobbes is back on HG+ and Carlos has been on HG+ the whole time. The dogs have had no interactions with other dogs since starting treatment, and I haven't transported any greys for anyone since this whole thing started. Cita is the only candidate of the three to have had larval leak. The other two have been here for some time, so Hobbes probably picked up his hooks from her and was treated easily.
It's been blowing up here locally according to a number of vets and some of the volunteers from the adoption groups. Derby and Sanford seem to be the hotbeds, but admittedly this is anecdotal and not scientific. It appears to be an issue before the dogs are entering the various prison programs, so although someone suggested these programs as a common thread, they are not very likely to be the source.
I also treated my yards twice with the wondercide. I don't know if it helped, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.
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Welcome, from Tampa!
Iker
in Remembrance
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Sorry for your loss, Robinw.