philospher77

For those of us dealing with spooks, there is a yahoo group shy-k9s that is helpful. It's intended for people with shy dogs, who are committed to positive-reinforcement training methods only. It's sometimes nice to be able to talk to other people who have gone through similar situations, and can provide helpful tips or just a word of encouragement. And I second the "it doesn't really matter why they are scared" group. Whether they were abused, or it's just their genetics, it doesn't really alter the situation. Your goal is to get them as comfortable as you can, and the steps you take to do that have a lot more to do with what's happening to the dog today than they do with what happened in the past.

Just to add my two cents: when I first got Katie, she was painfully shy. And noise-phobic, which adds layers of difficulties to the problem. (Visual triggers are easier to set up and predict. Noises come out of nowhere and are hard to put on cue.) She wouldn't voluntarily leave her crate, had to be coaxed everywhere by fractions of inches, and had to be physically carried outside for potty breaks. I will just repeat what everyone else has said: slow and patient work will probably bring your boy around. It worked for Katie, but I eventually got to a place where our progress stalled, and have had her on medicines (Elavil and Xanax) to help with the issue. They have made a huge difference in her ability to cope with life. To see how far she's come, go take a look at the "Katie's favorite game" thread. That should give you some hope for what your Chesney can wind up doing.

This is really just a comment, but thought I would throw it out there. Even once you have trained a stay or wait, be aware that increasing the reward value makes impulse control harder. There is a video of my Katie holding a stay for over a minute for her dinner. I did that on another day with kibble with added water, and she couldn't hold a 20 second stay. Which does make me think that you might try starting the meal with dry food, and once he's eaten that and taken the edge off, give him the moistened food.

Katie has an odd problem with stairs. If we come across stairs outside (going up to building doors, on hiking trails, in outdoor malls, etc.) she'll go up and down them with no hesitation or change in stride. Put her in front of stairs INSIDE a building, and she will get her front feet about 3 steps up and freeze. Going down is the same way. Stairs in parking garages can go either way, and I am not quite sure what makes her treat those like inside or outside stairs. So... any advice on how to show her that inside stairs are exactly like outside stairs? And, of course, part of the problem is that I do not have stairs in my house, and it's not that easy to find public, dog-friendly spots with stairs. But any help will be appreciated! Rebecca

I'll admit, I was shocked the first time my sweet, shy Katie growled at me. I'd given her a bully stick, and she did NOT want to give it back when I thought that she had had it long enough. She went so far as to air-snap at me. But once I got over the shock, I took it as a lesson to work on food guarding with her, and have been doing that. I haven't had an issue with it in a while, so it seems to be working. So I guess my basic advice is to determine if the growling is "appropriate". As has been mentioned, it's a means of communication for the dog. Once I have figured out WHY the dog is growling, then I would work on fixing the why. Either by not putting them in that situation, or trying to alter their opinion of being there. But yes, in the heat of the moment, first instinct is to reprimand, and I am not going to blame you if you do that, especially if they are growling at you and not another dog, etc. Rebecca

From the owner of another shy girl: Yay! It feels great to see them get more normal, doesn't it? I'm taking Katie to a Halloween party next weekend with the same thought: If things go bad, we can always leave. But she does seem to settle down with food, so I am hoping for a similar outcome. Reading about yours gives me courage. to Luna! Rebecca

Have you tried distracting Dublin when he gets too pushy? Truly, cats CAN be trained, and they train best the same way you train greyhounds: by making what YOU want them to do more fun than what THEY want to do. So, if you can see that Beth is reaching her limit, will a chase-toy get Dublin away? If not, you may need to think about physically removing the cat and taking him somewhere else where he can be confined away from Beth. Seriously, think about it like he was a dog... you wouldn't expect Beth to put up with a pushy dog, so don't make her have to endure the cat. Hopefully, as he settles in some more, he will learn his boundaries and you won't have to deal with this as much. Oh, and just as an FYI, that sounds like very dominant cat behavior, so you have probably got a new alpha in your house.

Katie has always had a sensitive tummy... the kind of hound that will have soft poop when switching between flavors of a food (like from lamb to chicken) within a brand if you do not do a very very gradual switch-over. So I had, for some reason I do not now get, decided to add in some wet food to her kibble. On like day 3 or 4, I noticed her poop was getting soft, and stopped the wet, and have been dealing with very watery diarrhea since then. She doesn't seem to be feeling bad outside of that, still eating, playing, etc. So, I am thinking that this is just a result of the wet food, given the timing. Assuming that is correct, is there anything specific I should do, besides stopping the wet food? In other words, do I fast her, put her on rice/chicken, or just assume that if I go back to the food that she did well on, this will all resolve as the other food works its way through her system? I've cut out everything except her kibble that she was doing well on, but just not sure if I should be doing more (and feeding less) to let her tummy settle, or if that's not required in this kind of situation. And how many days should I give it to see if things improve? If it's not the wet food, the other likely culprit is hookworms, which are an issue in my neighborhood, but that's partly why I have her on Interceptor, since that should treat the hookworms as well as the heartworms. I'm thinking that the food is the more likely culprit, so I am hoping that this will just clear up with time. Advice appreciated! Rebecca and Katie

My shy little Katie has just recently decided that playing is ok. She'd take a stuffie and un-stuff it. Tonight is the first time I have seen her actually running and chasing after the stuffie. I threw it, and she just tore off after it. Worked herself up to a point where she HAD to go in the yard and do zoomies! I am thrilled with the progress that she is making.

The standard protocol that the vets I have seen (for both cats and dogs) is once a week for 4 weeks, then once ever two weeks for 4 weeks, then once a month. Unless, of course, you start seeing symptoms before that time. I couldn't get Trink off the every two weeks cycle, but some of that could have been really early stages of osteosarcoma. Right now my older cat is also at two weeks, and we will see if she can get out to a month. You will start to see signs that it is wearing off, and your dog will let you know what the schedule should be.

Katie (56 lbs) gets 2 cups of Call of the Wild ... the fish based one, can never remember their names. And lots of treats, since I need to do a lot of confidence building exercises and counter-conditioning with her. For that, I tend to use Stella and Chewy's, which are freeze-dried patties that she really seems to love. And then the occasional odd bit of human food, normally veggies and fruit. But you do need to look at what the bag says. I love the companies that tell you the calories per cup/treat, so that I can keep it relatively constant. And be aware that switching flavors within a brand can affect the caloric density of the food, so you have to check then as well as when you switch brands. And I will wet some of the food when I add supplements, but I hand feed most of hers, so that's all dry. Hope this helps! Rebecca

For Katie, it's all about motivation. She is not very happy yet with the idea of going out into the Big Wide World, so I have to lift her into the car. If I try and wait her out she just gets more anxious, so I just go ahead and do it. Now, if we are out in the big wide world and I open up the back of the car, she flies in with the prettiest leap you have ever seen! She'd much rather be in the car where she feels safe than outside. Rebecca

Hello! I'm sure you'll have a great time hanging out here!

I'm torn about a second dog. I love the greyhounds, and I do think that the right dog would help Katie, but I also have to consider that I work long hours, and have two cats as well, and would (in order to be fair) need to devote time to both dogs individually and not treat them as a pair that never gets broken up. So I am not sure it would be fair to everyone. Thankfully, I have found someone in the area and am in the process of arranging some play dates with other houndies, so that may be enough for now while I ponder option. Oh, and Katie also refuses to go on walks when it's just us, although she will with other dogs around. And I have had to carry her home, when we have come back to find the kids out playing in the cul de sac. But seeing her when she is all happy makes up for a lot! Rebecca

A rule of thumb someone told me once: Run a finger along your dog's ribs. Now, make a fist. If the ribs feel like the back of the hand, the dog is too fat. If they feel like the knuckles, he's too skinny. If they feel like the fingers, the weight is fine. It's a rough estimate, of course, but it does provide a handy reference.

Now that I am giving Katie eye drops twice a day, does anyone have any tricks or hints to make this easier on both of us? A lot of times, I get the lashes or the cheek... actually getting it in the eye is being challenging. She does get treats when I do it! Rebecca

For questions to consider, I tend to think of it this way: try to imagine your life with a dog. When you get up in the morning, where is the dog at and what does it do? What about when you are eating breakfast? When you are at work? In the evening? Try to truthfully picture what you want the dog to be doing every point of the day, and that will give you a pretty good idea of the personality that you want. (There's a huge difference between someone who wants a dog who is jumping on the bed eager and happy in the morning, and someone who wants a dog who is quietly resting on their dog bed until after you get up and take a shower, for example, and different dogs will fulfill that role.) Also, since you mention a fiance, think ahead to when/if you have children, and the kind of dog you will want at that point. Greyhounds are big, and can injure kids accidentally, so you will need to think about how you are going to handle that. Can't give any advice on specific groups, but will recommend that you go to meet and greets put on by a few and see how they are. I have done that, and find that there is a group that you generally just "click" with better. It's not very scientific, I know! Rebecca

I'd love pictures, and I am going to talk to my vet about the thyroid tests. I'm pretty sure we checked them before putting Katie on the Elavil, and that it came back greyhound-normal, but it's worth another check, since that was mentioned as a potential cause of the deposits. And, in the pictures, what you are seeing are the deposits, which is why it doesn't look like pannus in them. And finally, this is part of the problem with being proactive and trying to catch things early... it's at a stage where the symptoms are just beginning to show, and there are, unfortunately, often many diseases that have overlapping symptoms. So you assume "horse", not "zebra" (in other words, go for the most likely and common illnesses first), and see what happens. Which is statistically going to be the right decision, but can mess things up if it is a zebra.

And the diagnosis is very very very very mild pannus in the right eye. Did I say very mild? It's at a level where the opthamologist wasn't quite sure that it is in fact pannus, but is seeing a very small area of vascularization, which not likely to be anything else. So I have drops to use in that eye for the next 4 weeks, and then in for a re-check to see how things are going. If it is in fact pannus, this is early enough that I don't think that it is going to cause any issues, and the drops will just become part of the routine. Slightly more disturbing is that there is "very mild crystalline corneal degeneration" in both eyes, i.e. fat and calcium deposits. This is apparently not uncommon with pannus, but it does seem a bit odd that it is in both eyes if the pannus is currently only affecting the right eye. However, this can apparently have several causes, from pannus to metabolic disorders to simply being "one of those genetic things". Right now they are very mild, and not bothering Katie any, so we are going to take a watch and see approach. I didn't ask, but if it is related to the pannus, I am assuming that getting that under control would also keep these from progressing, right? He said that if the deposits get too bad and start limiting vision, they can be surgically removed (essentially, it sounds like they scrape them off the eye ), but for now that would be overkill.

What the owner needs to understand is that they are training the dog every day, simply by how they interact with it and what they let it do or not do. So he needs to look ahead to when this dog is an adult and decide what behaviors are going to be acceptable then and start guiding the dog to those behaviors. It may be really cute when your 5 pound puppy crawls in your lap and bites your fingers, but you probably do not want a 70-pound dog doing that! Secondly, they need to find a trainer or class that believes, like mine does, that dog training should be fun! It can be a great way to interact with your dog, and the more fun it is, the easier it is, the more likely you will keep up with it. They use games like Freeze Frame (you play with your dog however your dog plays on leash... tug is popular... while music plays, and when the music stops, have your dog sit or down, depending on what you are working on that day. Music starts back up, dog gets to play again. Music stops, repeat.) Cheeseball relay, to help the dog learn to walk nicely on leash. Hide and seek, where one person goes and hides and calls the dog by the recall word, rewards the dog for finding them, and possibly for a sit as well, then the other person hides and repeats. Training a dog doesn't have to be just "do a sit 15 times in a row". Mix it up and have some fun with it! And my response to the many people I see post on line that "greyhounds are dumb" and that they aren't easy to train: Yes, Katie loves to sit, and she did eventually learn to spin the "other way". Keep in mind that Katie started out as a dog who was terrified to leave her crate, so if she can be trained (slowly, gently, and with a lot of patience and taking a lot longer than a more normal dog), an energetic puppy should be capable of being trained. Rebecca

I've got Katie on amitriptyline for generalized anxiety and Xanax for situational anxiety. The amitriptyline is costing me $15/month from my vet, the Xanax is $6 at WalMart. Now, Katie is a small greyhound, around 56 pounds, so she may be getting a lower dose than your dog. My experience with both has been overwhelmingly positive. I will warn you that it's going to take quite some time to see an effect from the Elavil (it's easier to spell than ami...). I think it was 3-4 weeks before I really noticed a difference, and they say to try it for 6-8 weeks before making any decisions about effectiveness. However, once you do start seeing an effect, you can ease off on the Xanax, with your vet's ok. I only use that when I think that there is going to be extra stress on Katie, like at class or during a vet exam, not everyday at home. Hope this helps! Rebecca

I'll admit, I would have a problem with that. I am a strong advocate for my pets, and am going to find a vet that I am comfortable with who is going to respect me and my opinions, and that vet might or might not be on their list. But putting that aside... what would they do with someone like me who adopted a dog, then needed to move 3 states away? Take the dog back? Refuse to let me move? And how do they know if I switch vets? It's way too much overhead for a rescue to put resources into tracking, in my opinion.

Hi! I joined just recently and suddenly realized there was an Intro area, so I thought I would give you some background on me and my pets. I had lived for many many years with two cats in California, a little 6-pound tiger girl named Rana and a 10-pound tuxedo girl named Pyret. When I moved to Texas for a new job, and realized I could get a house with a yard, I decided it was time to add a dog to the mix. I'd been looking into greyhounds, since they seemed very compatible with my lifestyle. Enter Trinkett (KB's Trinkett), who I adopted at 6 and a half. She'd had a long racing career, and been used as a brood bitch, but they placed her into the adoption group when she failed to get pregnant on her second breeding. She was pretty much a bomb-proof dog. I kept her muzzled when I first got her to protect the cats, until I quickly figured out that the problem was the other way round. Little Rana did NOT like having this strange new creature around, and made sure to impress on her exactly who was in charge around here! It really was amusing to have to go put Trinkett on her leash in order to walk her past the cat that had her pinned in the room by the simple method of sitting in the doorway. We had many good years together, going for walks, moving back to California, showing everyone what a delight a well-trained, friendly greyhound is. When Trinkett was about 9 and a half, I started to think about the future, and decided it might be time to bring in a second dog to keep her company during the day, and so that when she finally passed, I wouldn't feel like I was "replacing" her, but would still have a dog in the house. And, since Trinkett was such a steady, calm, mothering type of dog, I figured it would be a good idea to take on a more difficult dog, who could learn from me and have her as an excellent dog role model. Enter Katie, aka Hot Az Katie, an extremely shy dog. The rescue group actually did this as a two week foster-to-adopt, because of her being a special needs dog and a bounce. Her previous adopter only kept her for two days before returning her. And, after my first week with her, I could see why. Pretty little Katie was terrified of everything. I'd been loaned a crate, and quickly learned that it was going to be a struggle to ever get Katie out of it. She'd plaster herself against the back wall and try to meld with the wires. If I did manage to get her out of it and close the door, she would plaster herself against the door and try to phase through it. Or she would squeeze into the 4-inch space between the crate and the bed. So I brought in a trainer that ad experience dealing with shy dogs, to see what I could do. Most of their advice I followed, some I didn't. This is the kind of dog where you learn what patience is, and to celebrate small victories. It was a month before Katie would go outside on her own... until then I had to carry her out. I boasted to everyone at work the day that she walked down the hallway on her own, the day that she came in to the computer room on her own, the day that she came over and stood by the chair and let me pet her. Heck, while other students in my obedience class were showing off how well their dog sat or laid down, I boasted because she ate in class! So it's been quite a journey with her. The shyK9s Yahoo group has been very helpful, as well as my trainers that I use, and Katie has now become a much more confident little girl. I've taken the final step of adding medicines to the mix (generic Elavil daily, generic Xanax when I know that there is going to be a potentially stressful situation like class). She is currently in a nose work class, and is back into a fun-and-games obedience class this week. I highly recommend that type of class to people with greyhounds. It's positive reinforcement based, and incorporates basic training into fun games that you can play with your dog, so that it's not just boring drills and repetition. Trinkett took to the new addition with reasonable grace and good will. A little stand-offish, but I figured that that was just part of the settling-in process. Then there was the day, about a day or two after the foster period was over and Katie became officially mine, that Trinkett took a bad fall on her walk. We rushed off to the vet, who took some x-rays ad confirmed that the right femoral neck was broken. They recommended an orthopedic surgeon, who of course would not be able to look at the leg until Monday, since this happened on Friday. He looked at the x-rays and gave a 50/50 chance that it was osteo or just a bad break. It didn't present as typical for osteo, but the location and suddenness made it likely. After some discussion, we decided to do a femoral head osteotomy in order to try and preserve the leg in case it wasn't osteo, with the thought that we could do an amputation later if it was. (Which, in future, I wouldn't do... just go straight to the amputation.) She came through that fine, and was doing well with the rehab and learning to use the leg, when the biopsy came back positive for osteo. We started chemo, and she seemed to be doing well, until she stopped using the back leg and an x-ray revealed another fracture, this time down the length of the femur. At that point, there was nothing to do but amputate. She recovered from that very well, and enjoyed the next 6 months until the cancer returned and I had to let her go. So she is currently watching over us from the Bridge, probably resting in the swampiest pool of water she can find! Well, that's pretty much it for me and the girls. Oh, for some reason, Rana did not have as much of an issue with Katie as she did with Trinkett. I don't know if that's because Trinkett told Katie to respect the cat, of if Rana has pretty much figured out that the dogs are not a threat to worry about. And Katie has come so far in her progress that she is trying to solicit play from Rana (play bows, barks, stamps at her, etc.), none of which Rana is at all interested in. I try and distract Katie with some other sort of play at those times, in order to keep peace in the house. And now that she is displaying such playful behavior, I am contemplating getting a second greyhound. I have to decide if that's going to be fair, since there is only one of me and currently three pets, and Katie does take a lot of time and attention (although you might not think that, since she has been curled up sleeping in the bedroom for the last 3 hours!). So... still on the fence there. I am going to see how the classes go, and if that dog-interaction reduces the amount she wants to play with the cats, may look into day care instead for a while. Katie has her own YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/philospher77?feature=mhee where you can watch her progress and see some vids of Trinkett. The older videos are a bit choppy since they were done in 20-second increments and stitched together. Rebecca

When I was looking for a vet, I took my perfectly healthy friendly girl in for a "well pet" check, asked questions, and watched their interactions. I'll admit, I started with vets that were geographically close, and spiraled out as the search went on. It took 5 visits until I found a vet that I was happy with. But yes, calling and asking "do you have sighthound experience" is a perfectly reasonable first step.

Once you figure out when they need to go/you want them to go, you can cut down on the trips outside. You will also be able to start picking up on those subtle signals that they give for other times. Katie's schedule is morning when she gets up, lunch time, when I get home from work, and before bed. And I am pondering phasing out the lunch one, since she doesn't seem to "need" it (i.e., she goes, but only because I get her out there and give the cue, not like she is acting like she needs to go).... but then I think of my somewhat erratic work schedule and whether it would be fair to ask her to hold it for possibly 12 hours on some days. So I am undecided on doing that yet. Adding a cue is another thing to consider. It lets the dog know what you expect on this trip out versus a play trip. You will probably still need to potty after an intense play or training session. Mental and physical exertion signals the body that it needs to eliminate, so it's natural for your dog to need to go out after doing either.