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vjgrey

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    Sudden, Unprovoked Violence

    in Health and Medical discussion

    Posted

    This will be long but we're really at a loss here, and I wanted to explain as much as possible about our situation. Has anyone else dealt with anything like this before?

     

    We adopted Gabe four months ago. He's six years old and was a "bounce." He spent approximately two years in a home before he was returned for repeatedly attacking the woman's older, male greyhound. She also had a female who he'd always been fine with. When we adopted him, he'd spent a year and a half (after his return) in the kennel. RTW made it clear that he didn't get along with male dogs, so any future dogs we adopted would need to be female. That was fine with us.

     

    When we brought him home, he showed some signs of Separation Anxiety - howling, soiling in the house (despite being house trained), scratching up the door and walls and "collecting" our clothes and shoes. We did alone training and tried crating him, but he tended to panic in the crate. I finally discovered that it worked best to leave him loose but baby gated into one room - an enclosed area but not too enclosed. That helped but didn't solve all of the SA issues - he still howled and/or soiled occasionally.

     

    Aside from the Separation Anxiety and some car anxiety (which we solved by trading our Mini for an SUV), Gabe was a perfect hound. He's smart, calm, obedient and very affectionate. We love, love, love this dog.

     

    He has had a few health problems, however. A week after we brought him home, he developed a limp. The vet suggested arthritis and gave him rymadil. Around the second week, a sore developed on the pad of one toe. The vet discontinued the rymadil and gave us an antibiotic spray. He assumed Gabe's pads were just soft and needed to adjust to concrete (we live in the city). After a month or so (the toe sore still hadn't healed) a lump developed on the front of the same toe. At the same time, he became VERY sick and started to lose weight rapidly. We were terrified and insisted that the vet do a biopsy and x-rays. These showed no signs of cancer - they essentially showed nothing except an infection in his toe. The lump was surgically removed, Gabe did two courses of oral antibiotics, and everything cleared up - the sores on his foot, the limp, the stomach problems, the weight loss - everything.

     

    We'd had Gabe for two months when we decided to chip - since Gabe has always been around other dogs, we thought another greyhound would help the SA he was still experiencing. We took him to the kennel and, with him, picked out our sweet little girl. We brought her home six weeks later, after her broken hock healed.

     

    We've now had Diamond for three weeks, and, for the most part, she and Gabe have been great together. They've had no food/toy aggression and no space aggression. He tries to "cuddle" with her a lot and pouted and paced when she went to the groomer. She was a little "bossy" at first, but after the first few days, she followed his lead. The few times he's growled at her have been cases of sleep aggression. She tends to sprawl all over the place when she sleeps, and he tends to growl (growl, not snap) when he's touched/startled in his sleep. Our solution has been to spread their beds apart and/or to muzzle them when necessary.

     

    So everything was going well in our happy, two-hound household until yesterday morning.

     

    Gabe attacked me yesterday morning. I say “attacked,” and not “bit,” because it wasn’t one quick “nip.” He was growling and snarling, and he bit my face repeatedly. I have a puncture wound on my left temple, a gash over my eye, one on my eyelid and two under my eye, as well as a gash on my right temple and several cuts on the top of my head. Fortunately, none of them needed stitches.

     

    Here’s what happened:

     

    We more or less followed our normal morning routine: generally, we wake up around 6:30, they eat, and we all go back to bed for a few hours, until it’s time for me to get up for school. Yesterday morning, I had school work to do, so after they ate, I sat up in bed and read for an hour or so. Diamond jumped up and curled up near the head of the bed, and Gabe jumped up and curled up at the foot. Gabe isn’t usually allowed on the bed when Diamond is on (and isn't allowed to sleep on it at night), because of his sleep aggression, but, again, his “sleep aggression” has never been more than “light” growling - no snapping or even growling with teeth. Whenever this has happened, he’s been ordered off the bed (and has willingly hopped down). So, while I normally wouldn’t allow them on together, I did yesterday morning. They were at opposite corners of the bed (so there was NO chance of either of us bumping him) and I knew I’d be awake, reading, in case I needed to referee.

     

    When I finished my reading, I still had an hour before I needed to be up, so I decided to go back to sleep. When I fell asleep, Diamond was still up at the head of the bed on the right side, with me, and Gabe was still on the foot of the bed, at the far left. Again, I assumed they were far enough apart to be okay.

     

    I’d been asleep for about twenty minutes when I woke up to find Gabe standing over me. He was growling, teeth bared, and before I could react at all, he lunged and bit me several times. He seemed to be in a trance and didn’t respond to my yelling his name, yelling no or my screaming. I tried to push him off but couldn’t, so I finally pulled a blanket up between us. Once I did this, it seemed to break his focus, and he was suddenly back to his old self, happily hopping off the bed when I ordered him off. He didn't seem to know what had happened.

     

    Until this morning (and even after that incident) he’s been such a sweet, affectionate dog. It seems so out of character for him, my husband and I are just stunned.

     

    If this is just sleep aggression, I suppose that’s easy enough to fix: Gabe will not be allowed on the bed, will not be allowed to sleep near Diamond and will not be approached without waking him (all things we already make a policy of most of the time). However, my understanding of sleep aggression is that it’s a reflex. In order to do what he did this morning, he had to stand up, turn around, and cross the full length of the bed. He also paused before he attacked. For a few seconds when I woke up, he was standing over me, growling. (Also, I don’t think I was close enough to touch/bump Gabe). It seems too much to be reflexive.

     

    We've been in contact with the woman at RTW who handled his adoption, and she said she's convinced it almost has to be something medical, such as a seizure disorder or a brain tumor. While he has a history of aggression with male dogs, he's NEVER displayed any aggression toward people.

     

    We saw his vet this afternoon. I feel VERY dissatisfied with his response, and I'm thinking of seeking a second opinion.

     

    He's running a thyroid screen (Screen, NOT a full panel. When I told him about the information I'd found on this site and suggested a full panel, he said hypothyroidism is over diagnosed in greyhounds and that he'll only do a full panel if something shows up on the screening). He also said we'll look into a seizure disorder if necessary, but his focus seems to be entirely behavioral.

     

    He thinks that Gabe, as the "Alpha," feels "challenged," by Diamond's presence on the bed. He essentially thinks his attack on me was a case of misdirected aggression. This seems odd to me for several reasons 1) Gabe is six years old and has NEVER done anything like this before. His aggression, where there's been any, has always been directed at a dog, not a person 2) Diamond was two feet away from me, and he never touched her. If he was feeling aggressive toward her, there was no need to direct it to me (The vet acknowledged this but didn't have an answer for it) 3) Aside from the irritated, "Don't bump me," sleep growls, he hasn't shown any aggression toward Diamond 4) In fact, we haven't seen him show aggression toward any dog. He's allowed dogs in our apartment complex to sniff him, jump on him, bark at him, growl at him. One dog actually jumped up and nipped him on the nose, and he just stood there, tolerantly.

     

    The vet recommended that we crate both dogs at night (not going to happen) OR shut them out of the bedroom at night, never allow either dog on the bed, and start NILIF with Gabe.

     

    I'm not opposed to looking at some behavioral changes, but I also think, given the suddenness and violence of the attack, there must be something else going on.

     

    The thing that makes most sense to me is a seizure disorder. Gabe is often VERY "active" when he sleeps - running, kicking, barking, howling and sometimes yelping. Last night, he let out a LONG, blood-curdling howl in his sleep. I've NEVER heard a sound like that from him, asleep or awake. I know some dogs do that, but his is SO active and happens SO often that I've wondered, even before any of this came up, whether that was seizure behavior. I'd dismissed the thought, because I wasn't aware until recently that you could have seizures without convulsions. I think a seizure disorder might also explain why he has a history of attacking other dogs, although he's normally extremely tolerant.

     

    Any thoughts? Suggestions? Similar experiences?

     

    Returning Gabe is NOT something we're considering, but we need to get to the bottom of this and make sure it never happens again.

     

    We love this boy, and my husband and I are both devastated.

    Boy Or Girl ?

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    I would have a house full of boys (the bigger, the better) if I could. Unfortunately, Gabe doesn't get along with other males, even (especially?) greyhounds. There are probably exceptions out there, and if we find one, I'll VERY happily welcome another male into our home. Until then, we'll stick to females, which is fine. I wouldn't trade our prissy little Miss Diamond for the world.

    Hi There

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted

    Welcome! I'd be curious to hear what you think of the prison program. I'm currently a law student, planning to practice in criminal law, so prison programs combine two of my passions: inmate rehabilitation and greyhounds!

     

    I plan to look into one of the local prison programs when (years from now, way, way, down the road...probably ;)) we adopt our third greyhound.

    New Here,

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted

    "New Here,, looking into greyhounds as an addition"

     

    Jeez, I thought you said, "addiction." Either way, you've come to the right place. Best wishes to you!

     

    I read it as addiction, too! Grey owners and our chipping habits could be an interesting psych study.

     

    I'm definitely addicted to mine - don't think I'll ever own any other breed.

     

    New To Greytalk

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted

    It was my husband who wanted to get a greyhound, not me, but now I'm addicted to him

     

    Welcome!

     

    We were exactly the same way. My husband wanted Greyhounds, I wanted Great Danes. He "won" and now I don't think I'll ever have any other breed.

     

    A (long Overdue) Introduction

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted

    Hi, Kay! Carol and Annie told me about the "wrap incident." Carol said "She obviously wasn't in pain, just really silly and wiggly!" ^_^ When we saw her last Friday, she was RUNNING around the kennel in that cast, so hopefully it won't be long before she's well and home with us.

     

    I think we enjoy spoiling Gabe almost as much as he enjoys being spoiled! He's such a sweet boy. He had his stitches taken out on Monday and seems to be on the mend.

     

    Please do let me know if you need any help with transports, etc.. to Norman (or anywhere along the route). We just bought an Escape to allow Diamond and Gabe room to sprawl (I feel like such a mommy!) so I could probably transport three hounds (although sometimes Gabe makes the trip down with me).

    How Much Time Do Your Greys...

    in Training and Behavior discussion

    Posted

    With Gabe, we've been nursing a hurt paw since early August, but before that, we were walking 45 minutes in the morning, an hour in the evening, plus two or three 10-15 minute walks for bathroom breaks. His paw seems to be on the mend, and we're using a therapaw bootie, so we're trying to work him back up to longer walks. He LOVES them. I also have a fenced area at my apartment complex where he can run.

    A (long Overdue) Introduction

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted · Edited by vjgrey

    Do you get to Greyhound America?

    I see you are OU fans.... Does that mean you are in OK?

     

    Anyway...WELCOME!

     

    We're new to greyhounds, so we weren't aware of it before, but we've already marked the next Greyhound America on our calendars.

     

    We're both OU grads, and I'm currently in law school at OU. Our primary home is in Wichita, but we have an apartment in Norman, and I'm there two nights a week (good thing I love to drive!)

     

    Congratulations and welcome. They both are beautiful. I see you are aleady spoiling him with the collars. :lol

     

    Yep - in two months, he's acquired four, and I've already ordered matching ones for Diamond. :lol

    A (long Overdue) Introduction

    in Introductions & Biography

    Posted

    I'm Valerie, and two months ago, my husband and I adopted Gabe - a six year-old Red/Blue Brindle from Wichita Greyhound Park. We'd had dogs in the past but absolutely NONE like him. He's made greyhound addicts out of us both and is absolutely the furry little love of my life. Greytalk has been such a great resource for us, both before adoption and since bringing Gabe home.

     

    Eating a Frosty Paws:

     

    Gabe-IceCream3.jpg

     

    Sleeping Through the OU game in his OU collar:

     

    GabeOU.jpg

     

    Showing off his gorgeous new pirate collar:

     

    Gabe-Pirate.jpg

     

     

    We've also "chipped" and will be bringing home Diamond in a few weeks, when her broken hock heals.

     

    Greyhound_Shortys_Diamond-_2big.jpg

     

    Greyhound_Shortys_Diamond-big.jpg

     

     

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