MaryJane
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Posts posted by MaryJane
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My boy had a series of about 5 or 6 chemo sessions about 3 weeks apart (osteo). The chemo always made him pretty sick and he didn't want to eat for a few days. It was a battle trying to find a food that interested him. He always seemed to like his cheerios and yogurt and I usually saved that for his worst days.
They also have to pump in a good amount of fluids to flush out the chemo and this caused a problem because we would be up ALL night with him having to out every 15 minutes. He did have a pre-existing urinary issue which would cause him to stop urinating halfway through, dribble a bit, and then finish up. I haven't heard that anyone else had this issue with their dog going through chemo.
In all, he would have a bad few days and then he would be fine until the next session. If I had to do over again, I would do it again without hesitation.
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In addition to getting the values of bun and creat in the blood, you might want to find out if the urine had protein and how much. You mentioned that the urine was not getting concentrated - did they have a first morning specimen? Sometimes urine samples from the middle of the day might be dilute so it could be worthwhile getting another first morning catch.
If it is conclusive that it is kidney issues, you probably want to discuss diet changes with the vet such as moving to a K/D type of diet or formulating your own with less protein but, high-quality protein. You might want to get "protein stix" for the urine. This allows you to check every few days how much protein is being passed into the first catch urine. I have used these to adjust diets to have less/more protein.
Also, talk to your vet about the "latest" procedures for kidney issues. Years ago they didn't do dialysis for dogs, maybe it's changed recently ...
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I didn't see any mention of the urinalysis results - was protein showing up in the first catch of the day urine? Do you know what the specific gravity was of the first catch urine? Was there glucose in the urine?
If protein is overflowing into the urine, then the kidneys are not able to handle that amount of protein in the blood. In this case, you may want to consider putting your dog on a kidney diet for a few weeks to see if the situation improves. Or, I know some people that have used a low protein percentage dog food instead of a kidney diet.
If one of the vets thinks it may be mild kidney disease, then I'm wondering why they haven't started your dog on a kidney diet especially when the urination is an issue.
Did she by any chance get into some raisins or the bad dog food?
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In addition to the bag balm, I was using "CVS exfoliating moisturizer" when I ran out of the Kerasolv. Check with your vet, there is a human equivalent brand for the kerasolv.
Would love to know the name of the human equivalent if it's over the counter as well. We've had a lot of success using it for the keratinization on Neyla's bad toe. FYI, it's not expensive so if you have her into the vet for something else, you could just arrange for a prescription then.
I just got back from CVS and I believe the human brand of the exfoliating moisturizer is Kerasal ($10) and the CVS brand ($8) is right next to it. The ingredients betwenn these two are slightly different but the active ingredient is salicylic acid.
Edited to add -- Both are over the counter
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I don't know whether the ID will cause excessive drinking, so I can't help there. Maybe someone else can share their experience.
But, if my dog was drinking more and if he also had a high sugar, I would proceed to have a urinalysis (to see if sugar is leaking) in addition to the Fasting blood sugar.
Is your vet concerned? What does he/she say to do?
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In addition to the bag balm, I was using "CVS exfoliating moisturizer" when I ran out of the Kerasolv. Check with your vet, there is a human equivalent brand for the kerasolv.
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My greyhound has had 2 corns and 1 has completely gone away (about 6 to 7 months now) and the other one is barely visible from the last time it was dremeled. I have been putting either kerasolv (generic CVS brand) or bag balm on his pads and I rub them gently at night for about 5 to 10 minutes per paw after I put the creams on. I usually moisten his pads before I put the salves on. I never thought the corns would get to the "manageable" point they are at right now but, I can honestly say that I don't expect this to last and the corns will likely be back again. So I feel your pain about trying to manage the "corns".
But having said that and from my perspective, I would find it to be a really tough decision to amputate a toe as a treatment for something that might eventually resolve on its own - you mentioned that it was OK for 2.5 months and just came back recently. I would also be concerned that amputating a toe could also cause additional issues such as more corns showing up on remaining pads because of the weight redistribution.
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I am so sorry that you are going through this ...
With one of my greyhounds, 5 months after amp and chemo, the osteo had moved to the lungs. I started to measure his remaining life in weeks...
3 to 4 weeks later, the "lump" appeared on his spine. The vet said that since it was "bulging outward" there was less pressure on his spine and at that time, the remaining back leg could still stay functional. She did say that if he was lying on the part of the chest that had tumors, he would be in pain. I was now measuring his remaining life in days ....
Less than 2 weeks later and it became obvious that going to the bathroom was getting really really tough. He was not comfortable making any type of curvature movement with his spine. I was now measuring his remaining life in hours ...
A few days later he went to the bridge
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For example, I read a discussion about were to get meds the cheapest way. And I was a bit amazed. Can you guys buy prescription meds on a variety of places and to difference prices? Here in Sweden you can - so far, it is more and more debated - only buy subscription meds through the government owned pharmacy. And the difference in prices are none. Whatever pharmacy you get in to the price is exactly the same, as they all are the same.
You can't buy wormers and stuff anywere else than by the pharmacy either, and same there about the price, it is the same everywhere. (Horse wormers are prescription only since last year, dogs and cats wormers are still non-prescription, but only sold at the pharmacy).
I was just getting curious, as I often read about dogs with multiple issues, nedding freq vet vists and a number of medications. I know you guts are much, much more prone to treat over there than we are. For example limb amputation is extremley rare in Sweden, usually a dog in need of an amp. is put down. I make no 'value' in it, saying one side is right and the other is wrong, just notice the difference. And that it means a huge difference in costs for meds, treatments, vet fees and so on. And in Sweden veterinary treatment is (considered, everything is about what you compare it to, but..) to be pretty expensive, and few animal owners can pay out from their own pockets in an unlimited way. So I started wondering how t was 'over there' on the other side of the Atlantic
I can't address your insurance comments because I do not have pet insurance.
As to the prescription meds ... usually we are able to get meds from different locations such as the vet, local "people" pharmacy, mail order "people" pharmacy, and on-line/mail order "pet" pharmacy. These have differing prices and offer different medicines. For example, the local "people" pharmacy is not going to carry heartworm medicine (at least not in my area) but, you may be able to get it on line at a "pet" pharmacy. The local pharmacy would carry items like thyroid medicine because the "human" variety is given to pets.
Depending on who you talk to, they will have a different opinion of the places that you can get the meds. Vets either offer prescriptions so you can get it at a "people" pharmacy" or get it online/mail order at a "pet" pharmacy or, the vets make you get the medicines at their vet hospital. Note, I'm not making any judgements here - I'm just trying to identify what is provided. One note that I will make here is that I usually support my vet and buy my meds there even though they may cost more but, then again, my dogs have not needed excessive medication where the cost was prohibitive.
The mail-order places tend to be cheaper because they do not provide counter services and they can do a "just-in-time" ordering from their suppliers. So for example, people medicine from a mail order pharmacy may take as long as 3 weeks to get.
While mail pharmacies for people are regulated, the pet on-line/mail are not (as far as I know). There are some threads on GT and on the internet talking about some vendors stating that they do not sell their pet meds to the mail order firms yet, the mail order firms offer them. This brings up the question -- where do they get the meds. Some of these vendors state that they guarantee pet meds bought from the vet but, not from the mail order. It's a puzzling statement and you can make of it what you will.
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Don't be upset with your vets for not following this protocol. A lot of vets don't, and if I understand it correctly, not following Jean's protocol doesn't mean the thyroid meds don't work, they are just more effective if the protocol is followed. But...I could be wrong.
I've been on thyroid medicine for years and the protocols for when the medicine is taken and how it should be taken has changed over the decades. The synthetic versions do require 1 hour before meals and a few hours after meals because the absorption will not be as effective on a full stomach They will still work to a degree if the protocol is not followed but not consistently and with thyroid issues, "consistency" is a key to treating. I would not expect vets to know this as most "people doctors" don't have this knowledge, it's specialized and as a result, "Endocrine" specialists would know this and be up to date on the recent advances. Although, I would expect the pharmacy to have this information and provide a handout with information on the medicine which would include how it should be taken.
The Armour thyroid, which is pig thyroid, should be taken before meals but, I don't think that this is prescribed to dogs only to people following a "holistic" approach.
Another important note is that it's very important to store any thyroid medicine in a "temperature-controlled" environment, can't be hot or humid. The bathroom, since it is humid, is not the best place. Also, the glove compartment in the car is a no-no too. There are some thyroid medicines (thyrolar) that require refrigeration but, I don't think this version is prescribed to dogs either.
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Hopefully the K/D will help and the lab results next week will be better. It's good to hear that she is in high spirits and likes the food.
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I'm sure someone already mentioned it on the thread but, consider having your greyhound go in for a bath. I find that the bathing loosens up the hair and makes it easier to brush it all out so that it lessons further shedding. Fair warning though -- if you bathe your dog yourself you will end up being covered with hair.....
If someone else gives him a bath, make sure that they sure a "cool air" dryer because the "hot air" dryers can cause overheating problems with greyhounds requiring "emergency treatments".
As a side note, greyhounds stay pretty clean so they don't need many baths.
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Having access to a greyhound savvy vet is important for health problems that are prevalent in greyhounds. In this case though, I'm not sure that a different procedure would have been followed so far if you went to a grey-savvy vet.
It sounds like there is a question on whether there is a UTI and if I read your post correctly, you're waiting for the urine culture results before starting antibiotics which is reasonable in "today's climate of over-medicating with antibiotics. In my opinion and what I use as a basis for treatment in my dog, not giving antibiotics before the culture is back can be a good practice because treating with antibiotics that don't work can create a host of other issues. If you wait until the culture is back, you identify the bacteria and ensure that the correct antibiotic is used. Of course, there are cases of raging infections where haste is necessary but, that does not seem to be the case here. Having said that though, different vets may be more comfortable following a different procedure in the case of a UTI.
If the imaging study of the kidneys is being considered because of the creat value, then you may want to have your vet read the papers coming from Dr Couto's group on their studies with greyhounds. They have great papers on blood values in greyhounds. I believe Dr Couto's group also do consultations, and if so, maybe your vet can contact them.
As a side note, I had a greyhound with elevated creat values (with protein in the urine) and even though greyhounds can run higher values of creatinine normally, I put my greyhound on a restricted protein diet (kidney diet) after discussions with his vet. Within a few months, his creatinine value had dropped and there was no more protein in the urine. At that time I moved him to a regular diet.
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And on the cute side - I worked the nightshift tonight, and as I should leavde the dog at the hospital this morning by 8.20 am, and quit my job at 8.00 am - a 1½ h hour travel from home, and the hospital is located in the same city as my work, my LOVLEY boss agreed that I could smuggle in the dog by the back door and have him with me during the night. Officially it is NO dogs allowed at my work. But my boy got a 'sneak in permission'. He was in heaven, being wiyh mum at WORK. He took his job with great responsibility
(I work with mentally diasbled people with a range of agreesive and outraging behavior. But they all LOVE the dog. He has been there and met them out in the yard some times, and they always asks how he is, when he will come back and visit them and so on. So they were thrilled to have him in the house and 'sleeping over' I'm glad you're close to a treatment plan for your boy. And I just want to mention that I'm impressed with how you've gone through these tough times with your boy -- you've managed to keep the doctors focused, stayed on top of the treatments and kept an optimistic spirit.
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Thanks everyone
.The papers are here Dr Feeman and here Dr Stack .
Thanks for your advice
. The leg infection is completely cleared up now and has been for at least a couple of weeks. I'm sure the diarrheoa has been from the antibiotics and I have been giving Sunny some probiotics and things have been slowly getting back to normal. Sunny also had a titre test done to see if he needs his booster vaccination this year. In about a week's time when I get the result of this, the plan is to give him any vaccines he may need. My concern with the drop in the value of his white cell count was that it might mean that he has some immune system problem going on which might mean I shouldn't vaccinate him at this time. From what you say, though, the count can vary drastically so maybe I shouldn't worry as long as it stays withiin the range considered normal for greyhounds?I went to Ohio state and checked their web site and this is one of their references to a low white count. Please note the words "can be" and the suggestion of "additional lab work".
"Greyhounds normally have lower white blood cell (WBC) counts than non-Greyhounds. A WBC count as low as 3,000 can be completely normal in a healthy Greyhound. A complete physical examination and additional lab work recommended by your family veterinarian should yield additional information on whether your dog had a disease that causes low WBC counts."
I take this to mean that greyhounds can run lower WBC but, care should be taken that there is no other condition. I could be wrong but, I do not understand this to mean that a value of 3 should be considered normal across the board.
I checked the Dr Feeman paper (which also has a coauthor of Dr Couto) and in that article it states:
Greyhounds frequently have lower WBC counts than normal dogs, and commonly have between 2,000 and 6,000/μl (2-6 X 109/L); therefore, a WBC count of 2,000/μl (2.0 X 109/L) is normal for the breed and should not be of concern in an otherwise healthy dog.
This statement is a little off in the way it is worded because it is suggesting that the normal range for WBC in greyhounds is 2 to 6 (as I read it). But, if you factor in the words frequently and commonly, I think what the author is trying to state a case for is that the majority of greyhounds run in the lower ranges (of the 5 to 16) and this should be taken into consideration in a healthy dog. I could be wrong but, I don't think this is meant to be a blanket statement that greyhounds have a value of 2 to 6. If this was the case, then the value of 6.9 that your dog had before would be an issue (was your vet concerned about that value).
The paper from Dr. Stack is a summary of papers by other authors. Without reading the other papers, it would be hard to identify how the values were complied.
The key words I'm reading in both of the statements above is that the 2 or 3 WBC values are OK in a healthy greyhound. But, what I'm not reading is that these values alone indicate that the greyhound is healthy. Subtle difference ...
As to whether or not to do a booster vaccine, your vet is the one to ask. He/she is the expert and has the the experience on how vaccines interact with the dog's body.
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You can try 1 or 2 scrambled eggs as the protein.
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The normal range that I am familiar with is 5 to 16. This can vary drastically but should be within the normal range. The value that you mentioned of 2 to 6 from Dr Feeman and 3.5 to 6.5 from Dr Stack seem way too low - do you have a link to that paper?
The count is on the low side (as compared to a human value) and this can be caused from a variety of reasons such as blood disorder, immune reaction, or infection. You mentioned that there was a leg infection and a 4 week bout with diarrhea. I suppose either one or both of these may be causing this.
If I was in this situation, I would do three things:
1. stay on top of the leg infection and make sure that it is resolving
2. if the diarrhea was from the antibiotics (which it sounds like it may have been the culprit), give some yogurt to replenish the "good" bacteria in the gut.
3 while I wouldn't get paranoid about the value, about a month after the diarrhea and infection are taken care of, I would do another WBC to just check that it has returned to a "normal range".
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A greyhound of mine that I adopted at 9 yrs (he was a returnee) had a heart murmur. I had the echo done on his first yearly and he was checked on a yearly basis and it didn't get any worse, pretty much stayed the same. I was told to watch out for coughing and labored breathing.
The only thing that you might want to remember is that if he is due for any "bloody surgery" like a dental, he might need to get antibiotics and start them before the dental. The reason is that there is a higher susceptibility for septicemia from infections. I had my boy on antibiotics a few days before he had a dental at 11 years and he had no issues.
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Was an x-ray done?
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There was a thread a while ago talking about cancer and the 3-year vaccine. Link is:
http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?showto...=rabies+vaccine
When that thread appeared, I did a bit of research on the differences between the 1 year and the three year rabies vaccine (they are different). I was concerned whether there was a chance that a vet would give a 3 year vaccine as a yearly one when they should be given the dog the yearly one. I pulled out the records on my grey and looked at all the stickers to check what was given and when it was given and everything looked OK to my novice eye. But, I don't have any medical/vaccine records prior to my dog entering the adoption program.
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The only other thing that I can come up with is an inner ear infection. Sometimes it can cause dizziness and light sensitivity both of which could result in falls and confusion.
What's happened in the last 6 months - anything unusual, any different medicines?
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One other thing that might happen and you should be aware of is that you might notice that Tessie's temperature might seem to be a little lower (ie.. Tessie might feel colder than usual).
When I noticed this on my boy, I just covered him up with a cotton towel.
Someone already noted the "drunk dog" syndrome when they are not completely out of the anesthesia and the only thing I would add there is too make sure that you keep him quiet (so he doesn't hurt himself) if he seems like he is still slightly "dazed".
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I had two herniated disks about 10 years ago - the pain was excruciating - I could not stand at all for 4 weeks and the initial healing time was about 6 months until I could stand without leaning on something for support. But, I healed well and I credit being off my feet and then doing water therapy which allowed me to exercise without putting a load on my back. I did not use a chiro or acupuncture and I was firmly against surgery.
At the same time that I had my injury, one of my friends had the same thing happen. He went the route of "chiro". He was up and about within a month but, flash forward 1 year later and he could barely walk - he ended up having some major damage from the chiro manipulation.
I would not suggest "chiro" because the manipulation can cause more problems. I'm not against chiro as a way to keep your spine limber but, once something happens, it's risky to do spine manipulation.
My mother tried acupuncture for leg numbness due to spinal stenosis and it seemed to help, nothing miraculous but it did seem to take the "edge off".
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Thanks, both of your responses are really helpful.
MaryJane - I don't think there were any WBC in her urine. The report is in my car so I can't tell you for certain, but since both Dr. Rhody and my vet said it was negative aside from the small amt of blood, I assume there were no WBCs. I will double-check though. I like the idea of getting as clean a sample as I can and doing the culture that way and to ask them to look for crystals (had no idea that was an option).
The lab people should already note whether they see crystals in the microscopic but, the check is pretty quick and if there are few crystals, they're likely to be missed unless the doctor notes that this is a possibility.
Also, some labs may consider a small amount of crystals normal and not report them unless the doctor specifies otherwise.
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Red Has Loose Stools - Any Suggestions
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Try some oatmeal and hamburger in the morning meal for about two days and then add some apple (about 1/2 apple) with the peel (no core). This usually works to firm up my foster's stools within a day or two. Both the oatmeal and the apple skin have plenty of fiber.
You may also want to add a tablespoon or two of yogurt after the evening meal. This helps to repopulate the "good" bacteria in the gut.