greyhead

I'm assuming she is taking a thyroid med. How long ago did she start taking it? Our dog with lumbosacral stenosis also stumbles and knuckles when he's overdue for an acupuncture/chiropractic adjustment, which is how we've been handling the problem for 2-1/2 years. It's an easy test, just applying pressure to that area of the back. Has anyone evaluated her for that? Hoping you can get a handle on it, whatever it is. I know it's hard to have multiple problems popping up, try to solve them, and just find more.

Thanks, Donna. The vet thinks he's emptying completely, though I have my doubts. In any case, this might not have become such a BFD if it was cultured as a potential infection a year ago instead of being dismissed as probable incontinence. Now I may have to change vets to find one willing to hit it long and hard as an infection. The current vet thinks three weeks is a long course of this a/b. But three weeks given improperly in an infection this entrenched is not, to my way of thinking, a long course. I'm open to hearing what others here think about it. But I'm pretty sure that this issue is going to be a deal breaker between me and this vet. Which makes me very sad.

Thanks for understanding!

You and Bruce tried so hard to save her, Kim, and I'm so sorry it had to be her time. She was a wonderful girly, and it's clear how much you adored one another. Just want to say especially that our Spencer came to us at about the same time in the same way. That is, I knew the minute I saw his picture that he was "the one," but I didn't dare request him because I was sure some experienced adopter in the group would snap him up and that the group wouldn't consider us worthy of so fine a boy. We are deeply sorry for your loss but rejoice in the wonderful life you had together.

A C&S was done. Three of them, actually! The last one showed that "Baytril" would work, as they told me over the phone. When I went to get it, they said "We're giving you Orbax," and I assumed it was another version of Baytril -- no problem. What they didn't tell me, as I just found out today, was to give it an hour before or two hours after meals! I've been giving it with meals, so after 2-1/2 weeks it's no wonder it hasn't worked well, is it?! Just on a hunch, I started giving it by itself, just in a meatball, two days ago, and he seems to be doing better. (Don't know why I didn't go to the internet and check on this sooner. Guess it's because I asked about dosing in relation to meals in an email to the vet, and she said no problem.) His vet persists in wanting to consider it plain old incontinence, despite the C&S's showing E. coli. She wants him to stop after this round and have another C&S 5 days afterward, and then she wants him to take Proin, assuming the bacteria have been cleared. I don't think they will be. Moreover, I'm not willing to stop for 8 to 10 days and then have to reattack it with a higher dose. This would be the third or fourth time for that kind of occurrence.

Have any of you treated your dog's UTI with Orbax? It's in the same class of drugs as Baytril, floroquinolones, but isn't identical to it. Apparently, Orbax should be given apart from the meal by an hour or two. Until today I didn't know that. Anyhow, any experience? Is it as good as Baytril or does it just depend on the situation? Thanks for anything you can offer. We've been struggling here!!!

We have experience with this, but I have to get to my other computer to find out if we started with 500 twice a day or three times a day. As soon as I nail down the details, I'll come back and edit this post to be more informative! ETA: We went from 500 mg 3X/day to 2X/day, then to 250 mg 2X/day, then 250 once a day. For two blessed weeks he didn't seem to need it at all! But then he flared, so he's back on 500 twice a day, after which we'll probably follow the same progression downward. As later posters point out, what works varies with the individual dog. So for most of us it's a trial-and-error discovery of what works for us.

Here's a link to Wellness Core Reduced Fat. http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=dog&pid=70#feeding-guidelines Our Shane eats it and does fine with energy and coat. (We took him off it and used the brand that our IBD dog eats, Natural Balance, but it wasn't working well for Shane. So after a year off of it, he's now back on the Wellness and doing much better!) There are four tabs you can click on for info about this food; the tab I copied for you above is for Feeding Guidelines, and at the bottom of the page it says it's formulated to AAFCO standards, or guidelines, or whatever. I didn't see anything about feeding trials, but maybe it's in there somewhere. Glad you caught it before you hit full-blown pancreatitis, as you said! All the best to you and sweet Beth.

I'm so sorry!

It's discomfitting to hear that there can be kidney damage that doesn't show up in the blood work. Is that what they mean when they say that the kidneys are 50-75% gone before the damage usually shows up?

Thank you for sharing the lovely Louise in this very loving tribute. I know she'll be sorely missed, and I'm truly sorry for your loss.

Have his thyroid thoroughly evaluated, is my advice. We had problems with growling and snapping with one of our greys, though we figured it out in about a month. A screening T4 test came back at 1 (range 1 - 4). Whenever a value is at the poles of a range that way, it should be evaluated further because the margin of error may be all that's making it within normal limits. We had a full thyroid panel done, he showed up as hypothyroid, and the defensive aggression disappeared as soon as we started the medicine. I should also point out that we avoided leaning into his neck or anything else to make him feel vulnerable for a good two or three months! We did not want him to fail. I'm so sorry this is happening! It may not be thyroid, but you really need to rule out any physical cause first and foremost, as I know you thought/hoped you'd done with the intestinal growth! And congratulations for hanging in there with your boy. Clearly you know he loves you, and it's mutual!

:weep You tried so hard, hon, and I'm so sorry.

Welcome to you and Sophia! She's gorgeous and nice enough to let the cat think it's the alpha! Wow, same with my DH (skipsailors on GT)! He misses Laramie SO much.

I'm so sorry. But I want to thank you for sharing your beautiful feelings for your grandma with us. It's touching, inspiring, and I'm glad that you had such a wonderful grandmother.

Gobs of good thoughts for Gracey and for you! Looking forward to hearing good updates too.

I hope so too, bless her heart. Hugs to both of you!

Just replying to the things above, eating poop in Miley's case is probably evidence of intestinal malabsorption, the cure for which is B-12 subcutaneous injections you can give very cheaply at home. Do NOT let anyone tell you that she's just eating poop because dogs to that for fun! The specialist can tell you about the test for this, but I'd take home the B-12 after the blood is drawn for the test and start right away. Her ravenous hunger is also evidence that her gut is not able to process all the nutrients from the food she's eating. In Spencer's case, two fecals were done and were negative. Nobody told me that a negative fecal doesn't mean much, since the worms may just not be shedding eggs when the sample is taken. If I'd known that, I would have kept testing. The second vet, to whom we were referred, said his gut rumbling was probably "emotional." I knew Spencer well enough at four months with us to know that wasn't it! The third vet has an expensive set-up that spins the sample before it's floated, which is more likely to find eggs if they are there. By then, though, he was "loaded" with hookworm, so they weren't hard to find. Spencer had been coughing up eggs from his lungs and recirculating them to the gut. Which brings me to the fact that hookworms migrate through the body and just hang out, sometime in cysts until they feel like hatching. So a case of hookworm that goes untreated for too long becomes pretty much permanent, and lifetime treatment is needed, which we accomplish with monthly Interceptor and biannual Drontal. A final caution I want to make is not to go through too many kinds of proteins when looking for foods that work. If Miley has or develops IBD, you'll need an affordable protein that is novel to her and that you can feed maybe the rest of her life. When IBD is still untreated, the body develops an inflammatory response to pretty much anything they eat, and that inflammatory response to those things remains even after treatment in most bad cases. We tried so many things before getting the IBD diagnosis that we were left with venison for a novel protein, and the raw venison we get costs twice as much as any of the other varieties offered by Primal Pet. If venison ever stops working for him, kangaroo is about the only thing left, and the only source I know of for that mixes it with white rice, which he has never been able to digest. Well, either that, or I could let him hunt squirrels in the back yard! Good luck with the specialist tomorrow! I know this process is expensive, frustrating, and frightening. But most of us find it very gratifying when we are able to find the right vet(s), the right meds, the right food, and save our dogs for many more years of loving companionship!

This will be fast/short since I need to leave right away. But just to offer sympathy, our Spencer started with hookworm (which took 9 months to diagnose), then wound up with -- in order of discovery -- intestinal malabsorption, a C. perfringens infection, and IBD. He lost 20 lbs. One third of his diet is now raw. Had to go to a novel protein, which was venison. If it is IBD and an immunomodulator is needed, try to use budesonide instead of prednisone. It targets the gut and doesn't have all the weight loss and damaging side effects that pred can have. It costs more but has been worth it for us. And I'll check back in here later when I return home. So sorry you've been through this. Folks like us understand and sympathize entirely! Hugs to you and scritches to Miley. ETA: We dx'd the IBD using ultrasound. That showed most of the problem was in the small intestine, which meant endoscopy couldn't reach it. We opted not to put Spencer through a surgical biopsy, since he was almost 9, had lost so much weight, and we didn't want to put him through it. We've had no reason to regret that decision. Back now. Wanted to add that for the C. perfringens SIBO he had to take 3 a/b's: Simplicef, metronidazole, and clindamycin. IIRC, it took two rounds of each of those to get the job done. It was BAD. Now for the IBD he takes budesonide (1/2 mg), L-glutamine (500 mg), metronidazole (250 mg), and tylosin (1/8 to 1/4 tsp). These dosages vary from zero when he's doing well, to higher amounts when he has a flare. But he was only off the metronidazole and tylosin for two weeks before he had a flare. He has never eliminated the budesonide entirely, but I think that may be an overabundance of caution by his vet. Maybe. The L-glutamine has anti-inflammatory properties and also helps repair the intestinal lining, which is really necessary in dogs with the kinds of hookworm and SIBO histories that our dogs have. I'm assuming they did a C&S for Miley to find out what a/b's would work best on the Clostridium? And I know some vets use pred for IBD just because it's what has most often been done, so that makes THEM feel safe. But I guess our vet is brave, plus she had an IBD dog of her own, so I think we got lucky with the budesonide. It does tend to make them lose fur, which may be a consideration in a cold climate; but that has to be better than losing weight, even so! Feel free to ask more questions of us if you have any. And please do let us know how the ultrasound goes! And welcome to Greytalk, a greyt place for proud GH parents.

Thanks for all you did for Manny, Brie. I feel terrible for the loss of this young guy. Please accept my sympathies and pass them along to his other family.

Any strong feelings on the subject here? Anyone? Sorry, couldn't resist, as one who has very strong feelings in favor of treating, and more generous standards for determining that than some others have. There are plenty on this board who feel otherwise. If you use "hypothyroid*" as a search time in H&M, you will find *plenty*. For your pup, I'd tend to favor observing his behavior and retesting his hormone levels after 8 weeks or so off the medicine. I'll just point out, as I have before, that there are a lot of symptoms of hypothyroidism that are not the classic ones, and they are very hard to endure. One that comes readily to mind is joint and muscle pain, which your hound may or may not tell you about. Oh, and if one of mine were spending more time in the bathtub out of anxiety, I'd put him back on the medicine and fire the vet if need be. Best wishes as you make your way. And welcome to Greytalk! ETA: http://forum.greytal...hypothyroidism/ This is the link to the thread I started when I just couldn't stand it anymore, so that I wouldn't have to say the same things over and over each time this comes up. Oh, and I should add that despite the that you'll see, we're all still friends. Mostly...

What a great article! Thanks so much for sharing it. Did you have to ask in some way for the English version? Does that journal have anything about intractible UTI's?! FYI, Spencer is back on Flagyl. Upping his Tylosin dose hasn't been enough to take care of things. We were only off the Flagyl a few weeks when he had a flare. So I'm guessing Spencer is going to be a lifer on these meds. Hugs to you and Kelly! Mary

Prayers for sweet Sara. And I'm so glad your husband came on board. (GT is priceless this way.)

Batmom, I'm curious. What are the bacterial metabolism products you are referring to and how would they be listed on the report? The reason I ask is because Nadir has shown in past reports to have reduced immune function and although his previous bouts of incontinence have been proven to be allergy related I would like to know what to look for in the event he does get an actual bacterial U.T.I. What was Nadir allergic to, and how was that demonstrated? If I look, will I find a thread about it? (I'm really exhausted, or I'd just do the work and go look.) Shane has been on grain-free food for years, btw. Finally switched him from NB back to Wellness Core recently because his poops were just too huge.

Not real well, still having leakage, drinking lots of water, and needing to go out every 2 to 4 hours during the day. He has been on the Baytril about a week now, and I'm not seeing any improvement. I don't know what to think, though, because his improvement, when it has happened, has been slow each time he has been started or re-started on a/b. It took 3 days to see improvement in his demeanor the first time, and 2-3 weeks before the leakage stopped. The last round of amoxi-clav, he didn't stop leaking at all. Overall, I feel very discouraged. This is about to get super expensive, I fear, and we'll be lucky if expensive is the worst of it. The internist floated Cushings as a possibility, by the way. I guess that could explain why he's hungry all the time. I don't know if the vet did a strip. (She just said she "looked at it.") When the lab ran it as a urinalysis, all they saw was bacteria, and not an alarming number of those. But that was a while ago.