greyhead

Just want to send you a virtual hug, Jennifer. You and your sweet boy are in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm so sorry your beautiful girl had to leave too soon.

That was a wonderful tribute to your beautiful girl. I'm very sorry for your loss. She clearly couldn't have been more loved if she'd been with you her whole life.

You should have had more time together, but I'm so glad you had the time you did.

http://gracanada.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newbie&action=print&thread=4637 I think this is the Kathleen Gilley article that Kennelmom was referring to. You might also enjoy nosing around this site: http://greytarticles.wordpress.com

Our Shane wasn't a total spook, but he was an anxious dog when he came to us. I found it helpful to think of him as an anxious person, because the ramifications are about the same. For instance, they do better in familiar situations where they know what to expect. Ambiguous situations bring out the anxiety. If you can thnk like your dog, you will anticipate what will be ambiguous and scary situations to him, and you can guide him through them. At such times it's helpful for them to have a more confident dog to look to for guidance, just as children watch older children and adults for cues on how to behave. In any case, it helps if you are consistently calm and understanding. (We figured out pretty quickly that he had negative feelings about anything stick-like.) Another thing about anxiety is that it slows down the learning process. This can make them appear to be much less bright than they really are. They can learn as much as any other dog, but it takes longer. This includes housebreaking. Shane has taken years to learn how to give us the message that he needs to go out, unless it's urgent. One thing he did NOT learn from his older brother Spencer was how to walk over to the door! Maybe your group can help you figure that one out, cuz I never did. But somehow he got to where he could get us to ask him if he needs to go out, so we don't have accidents in the house. Try to avoid situations that scare him until he trusts you enough that you can expose him briefly to scary things, then provide him with a reasonably quick retreat. Btw, 4th of July is not that far off. If there are lots of fireworks around you, you might want to figure out how to take him somewhere else for the day/night. Or some try the medicinal approach to achieving calm; but if you're going this route, you should test him on the medicine ahead of time to make sure that he doesn't react to it by becoming even less relaxed! (Again, something to explore with your group perhaps and your vet.) Once these guys get the hang of things, they are so grateful and such a pleasure. Shane turned into a big ol' lovebug! I'm sure others have good suggestions for you too, and we just wish you the very best!

I'm so very sorry.

Very sorry to hear this.

Pepcid or Zantac may help if the tummy is irritated. (Pepcid will tend to slow the bowels very very slightly, while Zantac will tend to speed them up very very slightly.) I agree that you should not give Immodium. Not all dogs do well on probiotics, for whatever reason, so giving that may make it worse. Pepto Bismol might be okay. Your vet *forgot* about the "no rice"?! Then I think he owes you a good solution. (Don't mean to be a grouch, but I know what you're going through and I'm upset *for* you!) ETA: Did your vet do a culture & sensitivity test on the poop? That's what would show which Clostridium strain it was, how bad the overgrowth is, and which antibiotics would kill it. (We needed 3 a/b's, but we had a tough case.) In any case, Flagyl can be somewhat hard on the tummy, like most antibiotics. But maybe one of the other antibiotics would work too and be easier on her, even though it would likely be more expensive. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

We get our capsules as a health food store. A 00 capsule holds about 1/8 tsp. of Tylan. The bigger size capsule is ridiculously expensive, like $16 for the same quantity that would cost 5 or 6 dollars in the 00 size.

What a loving tribute to a fabulous, handsome, one-of-a-kind boy. I'm so sorry he couldn't stay longer.

I'm so very sorry.

There have been several threads on Clostridium on Greytalk.

We do the bile acids test on Friday. Many thanks for the info and good wishes!

Holding you and Albi in our thoughts and prayers! I'm so sorry this happened.

Holy Shoot, I checked that link and now know what "pricey" means in relation to Denamarin! I doubt I could take the whole package with the supplements too, but thanks very much for the offer!

Jennifer, I always love to hear from you! Spencer did have routine blood work done three weeks ago at his regular, periodic internist exam. She noted that his left lymph node was slightly swollen in his neck and thought it might be due to needing a dental. (His regular vet kind of resists doing dentals on him more than once a year, but he has always had bad teeth, and he may have an infection.) Internist drew the blood and sent him home with 10 days' worth of cephalexin (500 mg). But when the bloodwork results came in the next day, it showed the elevated liver values: ALP = 641 (10-84), ALT = 216 (5-65), GGT 18 (0-10). Metronidazole and tylosin for his IBD were to be discontinued while taking the cephalexin anyhow, but after these results she reduced his budesonide from 1.5 mg/day to 1 mg every other day. The dental was scheduled to occur a week after the cephalexin was stopped, and pre-anesthesia blood work was going to be done on the day of the dental. Uncomfortable with waiting that long to see what the liver was doing, I took Spencer to his vet last Thursday to check his liver values in house. But he was dehydrated enough that his blood was too thick for their equipment to run the sample. I informed the internist, who said give him 500 mg sub-q fluids. We did that Friday and gave him 250 more on Sunday. (For some reason, Spencer isn't drinking as much as he should. Like when he returns from a walk, he doesn't always head for the water bowl the way he usually would.) They took this latest sample on Tuesday and sent it out to a lab. Results came back today, and here we are. The vet wants the internist to "reevaluate" him. The only supplement he has been getting is SAM-e, 200 mg every 1-2 days. I've been afraid to add milk thistle until a vet says it's okay, just because IBD dogs can even react to toothpaste! (He was taking 1000 mg L-glutamine before, but I stopped it when he went on the cephalexin and the liver values showed up wonky.) I doubt he got into anything bad outdoors or in, btw, because he's watched too closely for that. He had a bad poop on his walk with my husband. (He hasn't been eating as much as normal, and I guess that could be either from the mouth or the liver status.) Now I'm worried that he needs to go back on his tylosin and/or metronidazole, but that can be toxic too. (He's been on all these IBD-related meds for about two years.) QUESTIONS: Might the dehydration relate to the liver? What makes a dog not want to drink even after a walk?! Might the not eating relate to the liver? Can he get by with those liver values long-term, as he might have to if he has to keep taking the meds for his IBD? If the bile acids are good, will it be reasonably safe to do the dental? (The vet thinks her anesthesia will allow work to proceed with his liver values.) Hearing that these liver values aren't all that bad is helpful! But I always come back to the thought that Spencer is not only 10, he's an old 10. [He's had a truly terrible case of hookworm, lumbosacral stenosis, intestinal malabsorption, SIBO (Clostridium perfringens), and moderate-to-severe IBD.] Doing a dental is always a risk, this one will be riskier, and not doing one may be the riskiest thing of all! So when I tell you and others that I appreciate your input now, I REALLY mean it! I know he won't last forever, but I don't want to lose him over this, after all he has toughed his way through.

What typos?! I'll bet my neighborhood pharmacy will have Denamarin. (They're small and have a specialty with supplements and holistic things.) I'll check in the morning. You remember about his hair loss, bless your heart. Actually, it started growing back after we lowered his dose to 1 mg and then to .5. You can really tell on his chest! Was Poots on anything else at the same time as the budesonide? I wonder if having two antibiotics in addition to the budesonide was unhelpful from the perspective of liver toxity. Tonight his poop was awful -- too dark, smelly, and runny. So I wonder if that means we'll have to start at least the Tylan again. Thanks much, Tracy!

Thank you, everyone! The internist just called, and she wants the bile acids run. If that comes back normal, she wants to go ahead and have the dental done. She said we can lower the budesonide more, but she didn't say how much. Since he's getting 1 mg every other day, I'm thinking every thrid day. (The capsules are so small, they're about impossible to open, so I'd have to order more of the .5 mg size, which will take a while.) The regular vet says she has the right anesthesia for dogs with iffy liver values. But she's worried about his weight loss and seems to think his GI status is not great. (I think it's pretty good myself, and I think she's just not focused on how little medicine he's on!) She's afraid that doing a dental could put Spencer into some kind of stress-colitis crisis. So the internist is trying to call the vet. When they figure it out, we'll have a plan. But I'm not as scared as I was a few hours ago. Leeanna's story is especially heartening! I've been giving Spencer 200 mg. sam-e per day. (400 seems to give him diarrhea.) Could I also give milk thistle too and have it more or less add up to Denamarin for the time being? (I'm not sure where to get Denamarin; does it need a prescription?) Thanks again. You guys are the best!

Thanks so much, Jill, for your reply. I'm so glad things worked out well for Birch! My heart is in my throat, frankly. It's one of those times when if I had my way, the world would just stop and take care of Spencer! Can't even believe I'm keeping my eye-exam appointment this afternoon! I really appreciate that you're willing to look up those numbers!

Although I never met him, I'm truly sorry for the loss of your handsome boy.

Well, in fairness to the techs, he has been very dehydrated, and his PCV was 74 on his last draw. Plus, he had eaten (a little) four hours before this draw because you just can't fast a dog this skinny! If I'm not mistaken, blood that thick tends to hemolyze. But, yes, there has been a mild improvement in a couple values since last time. I'm clutching that thought for dear life!

Spencer's liver values are very high, though lower than last week. Anybody have any experience with numbers like these? (I'm waiting to hear from his internist but won't for 4+ hours. I hope she'll call back today because she doesn't work again until Monday.) Regular vet wrote: "The primary liver value ALT is relatively unchanged. There is a decrease in ALP and GGT is back to normal." (ALP was in the 600's a week ago.) In anticipation of questions, his diet is entirely venison, 2/3 raw at this point and 1/3 Natural Balance kibble and Wellness canned. He has tended to be dehydrated, and we gave him 1000 mL of fluids sub-q over the weekend. (So even after that the sample was hemolyzed Monday!) He's also losing weight slowly but surely, down to 73 lbs, which is close to where he was after his 20-lb SIBO and IBD weight loss. We had gotten him back up to 80 lbs. His teeth could use a dental, which he can't have with these numbers. I'm thinking of requesting dental x-rays anyhow; can they be obtained without anesthesia? Many thanks for any and all thoughts/experiences. ETA: He's on a lowered budesonide dose of 1 mg every other day. Maybe we can eliminate it entirely, since he's doing okay with the IBD even after we discontinued the Flagyl and the Tylan three weeks ago. Test Requested Results Reference Range Units Superchem Total Protein 5.9 5.0-7.4 g/dL Albumin 3.2 2.7-4.4 g/dL Globulin 2.7 1.6-3.6 g/dL A/G Ratio 1.2 0.8-2.0 AST (SGOT) 69 (HIGH) 15-66 IU/L ALT (SGPT) 281 (HIGH) 12-118 IU/L Alk Phosphatase 469 (HIGH) 5-131 IU/L GGT 10 1-12 IU/L Total Bilirubin 0.2 0.1-0.3 mg/dL BUN 16 6-31 mg/dL Creatinine 1.3 0.5-1.6 mg/dL BUN/Creatinine Ratio 12 4-27 Phosphorus 4.9 2.5-6.0 mg/dL Glucose 100 70-138 mg/dL Calcium 9.5 8.9-11.4 mg/dL Corrected Calcium 9.8 Magnesium 1.7 1.5-2.5 mEq/L Sodium 151 139-154 mEq/L Potassium 4.3 3.6-5.5 mEq/L Na/K Ratio 35 27-38 Chloride 114 102-120 mEq/L Cholesterol 139 92-324 mg/dL Triglyceride 62 29-291 mg/dL Amylase 892 290-1125 IU/L Lipase 176 77-695 IU/L CPK 245 59-895 IU/L Comment Hemolysis 1+, the following results may be affected by this degree of hemolysis: -INCREASE- ALT may be increased by 15-20% AST may be increased up to 10% LDH may be increased up to 20% -DECREASED- Direct Bilirubin may be decreased up to 80%