Greyhound Refuses To Go Outside

[JohnF]

Try using Turid Rugass's 'Calming Signals' with him especially if he is licking and yawning when you want to get him up. (You can actually send that lick, yawn and look away' back to him. It says something like 'no worries'.) http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1

 

Now, is it that you are standing in the pathway that leads to the door and he has to go past you to get there? If so then call him from outside of the room. Whilst greyhounds will be familiar with being fetched from their crate it is usually done with out any fuss and they simply get up and out.

 

Alpha dominance? Not so much discredited (because pecking orders in packs are so obvious) as under attack by people of an anthropomorphic bent who read too much into the general idea and then began to pick it apart just because they can and resynthesize it with something that sounds more 'democratic' or nice. If you are a resource provider/guarder then you will be given respect in any case.

[Guest Downtownhoundz]

I have the opposite problem, I can get Bunny out the door but once outside he becomes afraid and pulls to go back in!

[greyhead]

If the problem is mainly just in getting up, there may be some pain issue with the back or neck. We had this with our first grey, who also had a 12-hour bladder (or more). Looking at his racing record, we see he had a long career, with all the bumps that involves, and was specifically rear-ended. A few months after he came to us, he also went down hard in the mud while running with the pack at playgroup. After that, he stopped coming to get us in the a.m. (He also wasn't a morning dog especially.) But we didn't add it all up until a few years later when his problems increased and he was diagnosed with lumbosacral stenosis.

 

So it may just be that your dog doesn't want to make the (uncomfortable) effort to get up when he doesn't need to go out. Not cuz he's lazy, but cuz it kinda hurts. Perhaps you could let him out earlier at night so that when morning comes, he'll actually need to go out before you go to work. Your dog is young and maybe didn't even race but may have gotten hurt enough in training to wash out. Just a thought. Do you know about greyhound-data.com?

 

And if it is something like LS, it has been pretty easily managed for years for our dog, with acupuncture/chiropractic by a rehab vet. So no huge impediment to a nice long life. Ours is almost 12 now and came to us at almost 5. Keep us posted!

[Guest Herminator]

Try using Turid Rugass's 'Calming Signals' with him especially if he is licking and yawning when you want to get him up. (You can actually send that lick, yawn and look away' back to him. It says something like 'no worries'.) http://www.canis.no/...cle.php?artid=1

 

Now, is it that you are standing in the pathway that leads to the door and he has to go past you to get there? If so then call him from outside of the room. Whilst greyhounds will be familiar with being fetched from their crate it is usually done with out any fuss and they simply get up and out.

 

Alpha dominance? Not so much discredited (because pecking orders in packs are so obvious) as under attack by people of an anthropomorphic bent who read too much into the general idea and then began to pick it apart just because they can and resynthesize it with something that sounds more 'democratic' or nice. If you are a resource provider/guarder then you will be given respect in any case.

 

Very interesting article on Calming Signals. Thanks for sharing!

 

I've tried calling Herman from another room, but that rarely works. I could wait in another room for 20 minutes and he would never come.

[Guest Herminator]

If the problem is mainly just in getting up, there may be some pain issue with the back or neck. We had this with our first grey, who also had a 12-hour bladder (or more). Looking at his racing record, we see he had a long career, with all the bumps that involves, and was specifically rear-ended. A few months after he came to us, he also went down hard in the mud while running with the pack at playgroup. After that, he stopped coming to get us in the a.m. (He also wasn't a morning dog especially.) But we didn't add it all up until a few years later when his problems increased and he was diagnosed with lumbosacral stenosis.

 

So it may just be that your dog doesn't want to make the (uncomfortable) effort to get up when he doesn't need to go out. Not cuz he's lazy, but cuz it kinda hurts. Perhaps you could let him out earlier at night so that when morning comes, he'll actually need to go out before you go to work. Your dog is young and maybe didn't even race but may have gotten hurt enough in training to wash out. Just a thought. Do you know about greyhound-data.com?

 

And if it is something like LS, it has been pretty easily managed for years for our dog, with acupuncture/chiropractic by a rehab vet. So no huge impediment to a nice long life. Ours is almost 12 now and came to us at almost 5. Keep us posted!

.

 

 

I've considered that it could be a pain issue. However, the problem seems to go beyond just getting up. He also does the greyhound freeze when he knows it's time for walk. For example, this morning Herman was snoozin on his bed. I gently woke him up and started petting him and talking to him. Then I told him "let's go for walk"! Of course he did nothing. So I wiggled his bed and he eventually stood up. We both walked to the stairs, and then he froze. I had to give him a little push from behind to get him to go down the stairs. Often times, Herman will freeze two or three times before getting to the door. And then once we're outside, he's wagging his tail and as happy as can be!

 

I've noticed that when it's not time for a walk, Herman will come running to me from anywhere in the house, if I call him. Last night, I was downstairs watching tv. I called for Herman, who was upstairs, and he came bolting down the stairs, wagging his tail and happy to see me. It's like, he knows when it's time for a walk and is being stubborn on purpose!

Edited September 13, 2012 by Herminator

[TheFullHouse]

What I would do then is practice that, call him and when he comes running, reward him with a treat. I would start with that, over and over a few times so he gets the idea when you call and he comes there is a reward in it for him. Once he gets that idea then walk to the door and call, if he comes, reward him. Try and get him to the point that you call and he comes and you open the door and once he goes out when you come back in reward him again. Pick something special that he only gets for these times like this, sliced up hot dog or something like that. Do not treat him any other time with hot dogs and see if that works. Once you have the reward system in place you will be able to train him to do other things. You should also praise the heck out of him when he complies .

Edited September 13, 2012 by JillysFullHouse

[Guest Stardude82]

Sounds similar to my boy who has steadily gotten worse since we picked him up about 5 months ago. He does seem more skittish since we've had him in spite of no obvious trauma and okay thyroid results. Sometimes he freezes

 

My girl thinks walks are the best thing in the world, but doesn't like having her Martingale put on.

 

90% of the time, they respond to a "come" command and the other 8% one or both need to be bribed. A couple times we've had to push him down the stairs.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Stardude82

[JJNg]

We are trying to adopt the "no force" approach on the weekends. We just let Herman come to us when he wants to go out. That seems to be working great...on the weekend. It's during the week that's the problem. When both me and my fiance are rushing to get out the door in the morning, we have no choice but to force him.

 

Perhaps it's neither laziness or fear... Just throwing in an additional thought - I'm wondering if his freezing might be a response to something about your body language and the hectic energy from rushing on weekday mornings? As described in the article JohnF linked above, walking slowly and freezing are calming signals .

 

What I would do then is practice that, call him and when he comes running, reward him with a treat. I would start with that, over and over a few times so he gets the idea when you call and he comes there is a reward in it for him. Once he gets that idea then walk to the door and call, if he comes, reward him. Try and get him to the point that you call and he comes and you open the door and once he goes out when you come back in reward him again.

 

Especially given your comments about Herman running to you when called if it's not time for a walk, I second Judy's recommendations here. It seems that Herman has somehow developed a negative association to the process of getting up and going to the door in preparation to go outside. You may be able to reverse this by making all trips to the door as fun and low stress as possible.

 

Alpha dominance? Not so much discredited (because pecking orders in packs are so obvious) as under attack by people of an anthropomorphic bent who read too much into the general idea and then began to pick it apart just because they can and resynthesize it with something that sounds more 'democratic' or nice. If you are a resource provider/guarder then you will be given respect in any case.

 

Pecking orders may be 'obvious' in certain group situations (often artificially created ones), but I don't think it has anything to do with how we interact with and train our dogs. Pecking orders are about access to tangible resources like food, shelter, or mates. When there are limited resources, obviously the stronger individuals who have the most desire for those resources are going to have access to those resources first, thus appearing to be higher up in the hierarchy.

 

But having priority access to resources doesn't mean those individuals have an abstract sense of being 'in control' or having higher 'status' in general, and in other situations. It's this idea of dominance being equated to power and control that seems to be the common usage in dog training today. And I just don't believe that this concept is necessary at all to developing a mutually respectful and harmonious relationship with our dogs.

[Guest kess]

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Edited September 15, 2012 by kess

[Guest kess]

Perhaps he doesn't need/want to go out? When I first got my greyhound, I was taking him outside a lot and half of the time he didn't go to the bathroom and wanted to go back inside. Maybe Herman just doesn't really need to go out and he'd rather be snoozin' in your bedroom? Would he have an accident if you waited for him to come to you? How often are you taking him out?

 

I certainly considered this. We take him out 5 times a day, sometimes 4. Everytime we take him out, he goes #1 or #2. But I wonder if maybe we are taking him out too much. Maybe we are forcing him to go out when we don't really need to. We try to keep to a pretty strict scedule of when to take him out, as I thought greyhounds liked schedues. But maybe we should try waiting for him to come to us?

 

 

 

 

I don't think my Bobby would want to go out 5 times a day, I think he would just lay there and refuse to get up too. I think you have answered your own question why he is refusing to go out of the door.

[Guest SusanP]

If he's fine going out one door but not the other, I would suspect a fear issue. Maybe his tail got banged in the storm door once or something? Maybe a loud noise happened as he was about to go out the front door? I would forget about the alpha stuff and try training him to go out the door again with treats and praise. If it's simply a matter of being lazy, he would do the same thing when you invite him to go through the other door.

 

What is his body language like when you try to get him through that door? Will he follow a tiny piece of dried liver out the door? Will he come in the door happily, or is that a problem, too?

[Guest zombrie]

I agree it's either fear or he's really, really lazy. Doolin is crazy lazy and if doesn't feel like doing something, there's no way to get him to even budge

[Guest SusanP]

As for Alpha Theory:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU

 

This is a video of L. David Mech, the wolf biologist who created the idea of Alpha-ism in wolves, which then lead to the theory of alphaism in dogs. Here he is repudiating the whole notion, explaining that wolves operate as a family unit, with the breeding pair (scientists now use this term instead of "alpha") naturally having the status of parents to the other pack members.

 

And I have to say that pecking orders have *not* been at all obvious in our dog packs. All joined our family as adults, and all of them have taken lead roles at one time or another, depending on what's important to that individual. That aside, yes, it is true that they generally try to please me by doing what I ask them to do or not do, and I would attribute that to my having taken the "parental" role, in which I dispense (as the poster above mentioned) resources, give comfort, etc...What we have noticed is that our dogs become more and more obedient the more they bond with us over that first year or so in our house. It isn't about throwing around weight and power. It's about developing a relationship with them. But this should be a topic of its own, really.

Edited September 27, 2012 by SusanP

[Guest kess]

As for Alpha Theory:

 

 

 

interesting youtube, thanks for sharing