[Osteo Thread Part 9]

6 hours ago, greysmom said:

Firstly, I'm so sorry that you're having to join this particular club.  It just sucks.  All the way around, up and down.

Second - and I don't mean to sound harsh, it is what it is - your dog is already on hospice alert.  Once the cancer is able to be detected on xray, it has already spread throughout their body, and it's just waiting to metastisize somewhere else.  The entire purpose of going the amp/chemo route is to remove the primary source of pain for your dog.  We know that even small lesions of osteo are hideously painful.  But even after you remove the primary tumor already diagnosed, you only extending the period of time for your goodbyes.  The cancer will, eventually, come back.

If you go with amp/chemo your dog will need to spend significant amounts of time at the vet for the first two to three months.  If everything goes according to plan, the visits will be less after that, but they will still be needed.  Our boy LOVED going to the vet, and the oncology staff loved having around.  They would set him up for his chemo in the middle of their office instead of in a kennel and take turns sitting with him and giving him tons of attention the entire time.  But he was never nervous or anxious going to see them and I never had a minutes anxiety myself leaving him.   It was fortunate he loved it because the first three months he was there as much as at home between three surgeries and follow-up appointments, bloodwork and labs, chemo, follow up xrays - it seemed every week he was there for something vital to check or fix or start or finish.  So really (really) consider the effect that the stress of having to go to the vet so much will have on your dog.

Going the palliative care route is a perfectly valid choice for many owners.  You don't get as long to say goodbye - the pain-free time you get with drug therapy is short - but your dog will be happy at home with the people he loves, without the added anxiety of going to the vet so often.  The biggest risk with doing this option is the risk from your dog having a catastrophic bone fracture at home due to the cancer eating away at the bone.  If you go this route it's best to have a discussion with your vet about what to do in the event of such an emergency.

It's also fine to choose neither of those, and to let your boy go before the pain becomes unbearable.  When he's having a good day after you've spoiled him rotten.  A day you can both choose in advance and be in control of.  I recommend finding a good vet who can come to your home to perform the euthanasia so everyone can be relaxed and accept the end with grace and dignity.  We've done it all sorts of ways, and this is, by far, the only way we will choose to let our dogs go if we have any choice at all.

A note about your vet:  Having a sympathetic doctor is always the best.  But they are wired to fix things - even things that can't be fixed.  So they are almost always going to advise doing amp/chemo.  That's not bad or good, just what their knowledge and experience tell them is the thing to do.  They also, for the most part, don't have to consider the cost of what that route means to most people.  For us, in 2011, our dog's amp/chemo and nine months of life ended up costing us nearly $20,000.  Fortunately, we had just received a substantial amount of money from my mother-in-law's estate, so we could afford it.  It sucks having to consider this part, but you do need to factor it in.

It's not an easy choice - and it shouldn't be - but whichever choice you make know it's the right one for you and your dog and your individual situation.  It's highly personal and none of us can tell you what that choice should be.  We can just lay out the options for you to have as much information as you need.

Again, I'm sorry...

Thank you greysmom and ramonaghan for sharing your experiences.  I have also heard from others on FB -- the good, the bad, the ugly.  This morning I made the decision to not go through with amp and chemo.  Well, maybe Zane made that decision for me.  As I woke up he was lying next to me, whimpering trying to get comfortable.  He's been through so much already, and I can't put him through months of car rides and vet visits.  Just getting him diagnosed was stressful.  They tried to do a FNA after the x-ray but he was so ramped up on stress and adrenaline that the sedative didn't work.  It took him over two hours at home to settle down from that and I had to bring him in again for a full sedation just to get the sample.  He had a spontaneous bloody nose incident recently that was truly horrific for both of us.  I can't imagine the toll that surgery and chemo would do on his well-being (or mine), all for an uncertain outcome.  I am aware of the risk bone fracture and I very much don't want that to happen.  I will be having a vet come here this week to let him go peacefully.  I did that with my first grey (osteo on the ribs, he was 12 with a heart murmur, treatment wasn't an option), and my most recent old lady grey.  No more stressful car rides and vet visits for my baby.  Lots of love, meds, treats, and naps until we say goodbye.

[Osteo Thread Part 9]

2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

I'm so sorry for Zane's diagnosis. He's so young.   Your concerns are totally understandable, and you've already grasped the sad reality of this disease: Damned if I do and damned if I don't. I don't want this to sound harsh, but the cancer will eventually win. There's no saving his life here, only extending it with as much quality as you can. 

Sweep loved rides but hated going to the vet and was extremely anxious there. That was compounded by the fact that we went through this when COVID protocols were still in place and we couldn't ever go inside the clinic with her. Her oncology team suggested giving her Trazadone before her chemo treatments. Zane's vet might suggest that or something else to help his anxiety if he's not on anything currently. The good news is that chemo doesn't take long; depending on whether they were doing x-rays too or not, each appointment was usually 30–60 minutes. If Zane is food motivated, burgers or roast beef sandwiches as a special post-chemo treat can also help make it not such a scary experience.

The amputation and hospital stay will be harder on him. We had hoped Sweep could stay a couple of nights at the clinic, but she was so stressed they had us pick her up the very next day. They remarked that she walked better to the car to go home with us than she ever had for them. Once she was back at home and with us, she did fine.

Sweep was much older than Zane at the time of her surgery (11) and she was a rear leg amp, so she didn't do indoor stairs anymore afterward; her hind end just wasn't strong enough. Age is on Zane's side here. I suspect he would do fine with the stairs after the initial adjustment period. You'll likely need help getting him into the car at first. Is there a friend or neighbor who could give you a hand during his recovery? You'll need a good harness; check this thread for suggestions for front leg amps.

It's not an easy road no matter what you choose. My husband and I talk a lot about whether we'd do it again with our current hounds, and we just don't know. Despite her anxiety at the vet's, Sweep was a fighter and I'm not sure our current two are wired that way. We got almost 15 months with her after the initial leg break and we wouldn't trade that time for anything, but the constant vigilance is exhausting and stressful. We have no regrets about our decisions with her, but so much is down to the individual dog and what YOU can handle and afford. The flip side of "all the options suck" is that there's no right or wrong decision; you make the best choice you can with the info you have, and out of love for your dog. 

On a final note, I'll say that I do think it's helpful when the vet has gone through this with their own pets. Our oncologist had done an amputation on his dog (not a greyhound) and he told us when they found the osteo, he had a moment of "What do I do?" and decided that he couldn't very well not follow his own recommendation to other owners. It was comforting to know that he'd been in our shoes before and he could share firsthand what to expect at each stage.

Thank you for your reply.  It's just so hard to know how he will do.  I don't really have anyone to help except my son, but he's in school during the day.  I also don't know if Zane is a fighter.  He's already had some weird health things and has been to the vet many times.  It always makes him anxious.  And this whole thing makes ME anxious, which I know doesn't help.  I keep flip-flopping.  Part of me tells me that he doesn't know about longevity and lives in the moment, so why put him through such misery, even if it's temporary?  The other part tells me he could get through surgery and chemo and come out just fine and live another few years.  But honestly, this dog doesn't really do much.  I know most greyhounds are like that, but he doesn't go running in the yard or out for long walks.  Just neighborhood sniff/pee walks, and a short zoomie/toss toys around most days.  Otherwise he sleeps.  So who am I doing this for?  Me or him?

[Osteo Thread Part 9]

Hi all, my boy was just diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his front left shoulder.  I don't have time to read this entire thread because I have to make a decision soon, so please bear with me.  Zane is almost 7, about 75-80 pounds, and he's an anxious dog.  My vet is suggesting a round of Carboplatin on Monday, followed by amputation on Friday, then 5 more rounds of Carboplatin.  I know that greys can live well on 3 legs.  I do have a single long flight of stairs to the second level, and he's used to using a dog door.  I'm not sure how he would handle those things.  He doesn't go out running or playing.  He sleeps most of the time, sometimes has short zoomies, and I take him for a walk every day.  He is anxious in the car and even worse at the vet.  He sometimes has anxiety attacks and pants and paces around the house.  My concern isn't so much with him being a tripod, but the cost of putting him through the chemo and amputation knowing it is going to be stressful for him (and me).  Especially since I don't know for sure that the chemo will work and that he'll be happy on 3 legs.  I don't know if I'd even be able to get him in the car since I can't lift him myself, and he probably won't want to jump in. 

I'd feel guilty for putting him through so much, but I'd feel guilty for deciding to let him go.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I don't want to make this decision for me but for him.  I want him to be happy and at peace.  Whether that means letting him go or trying to save his life, I don't know.  My vet is strongly suggesting chemo and amputation (she did this with her own greyhound and patients), but some greyhound folks don't think it's a good idea.  In the end, I actually think anything I do will be harder on me than on him.  Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. 

[Food obsession and aggression toward other dog]

Hi all.  I want to say first that I am consulting with a dog behaviorist on this issue, but I want to know if anyone else has experienced it.  I've seen posts about resource guarding and aggression, but I think this issue is trickier.  One of my dogs, Z, is four years old and I've had him for 3 years.  He has always been obsessed with food, and I know he has issues over it.  He is aggressive if he steals food (or finds a dead lizard) and I try to take it away.  I can deal with this, and have learned to try to prevent it or trade for a treat.  Most of the time, I can sit on the couch next to him and eat a full meal and he doesn't care.  But sometimes he gets this look on his face when he sees food, like he has to have it NOW.  Again, I can deal with that by removing the food, and he goes back to normal.

The problem I'm having, which is happening more often lately, is that he sometimes goes after my other dog, L (15).  I think I've figured out that he thinks she is going to get food, even if there isn't any, and he doesn't want her to have it.  If they are both lying down downstairs, and she gets up and walks to or even by the kitchen or food bowls (no food, just water), he will go after her.  I intervene when I'm there.  Now it is happening upstairs but I haven't witnessed it -- there's a scuffle, and it's over when I get up there.  I have been feeding L in my bedroom lately and I think it's the same issue.  They are lying down, she gets up, and he thinks she's going for some food that isn't there.  I always separate them when they eat.  He used to eat outside (when it's not cold or wet) and she'd eat inside downstairs.  But she is old and starts to sink when she eats standing up, and it has been cold, so she usually eats in my bedroom lying down, with my door closed, and he eats at his normal food station downstairs.  It's been getting worse, and he scratched her head and maybe her nose, and one time I noticed after a scuffle that her neck was wet.  It's only a matter of time until he really hurts her.  She is clearly scared of him now and won't stay in the same room with him.  I keep them separated as much as possible.

My question (to you wonderful people and to the trainer...waiting to hear back...) is if anyone has experienced anything like this and if it's fixable.  Most of the time he's a big sweetie and they get along.  He shows no aggression to any dog or person on walks.  It's clearly a food jealousy/guarding issue.  Can he be changed?  Do I have to just keep them separate until she is gone, and then keep him as an only dog?  Should I find somewhere for him to stay until she is gone, so she won't live in fear for her final days?  She is old, weak, toothless, and at least partially deaf, but she's still kicking and enjoying walks.  She doesn't deserve to be bullied by her brother.  And I don't want to just return him and make him someone else's problem (besides the fact that he's my baby and I made a commitment when I adopted him).

Thanks for any advice.  I'm hoping the trainer can help as well.

[Food stealing and growling]

Hi MollyMoo -- I was just doing a search for a very similar problem with my grey.  He can be very food aggressive, but only when he steals food (we feed the dogs separately for this reason).  We are very careful not to give him the opportunity to steal any food, but sometimes when we are eating (more my son than me), he gets this intense look and stares at what he wants.  I can usually snap him out of it, and it doesn't happen all the time. In fact, I can usually eat a meal with no problems even if he's sitting next to me on the couch.  It's like something snaps in his brain and he becomes a different dog.  He also will sometimes go after my other dog if she is walking past the dog bowls (not aggressively, just runs up to her, maybe nips her).  It's like he thinks she's going to get food and he won't. 

I'm wondering if your Molly displays the same behavior and if you've had any luck with fixing it.  I was planning on trying to teach my boy "leave it."  It's hard to train out the aggressive behavior otherwise because it's kind of rare and when he's in that mode he's not the same sweet goofball that I know and love.

[Buzby's ToeGrips -- reviews, anyone?]

Has anyone tried Dr. Buzby's ToeGrips, especially for aging greys?  My 13-year-old girl isn't as steady on smooth floors as she used to be.  My vet suggested these but I wanted to see if anyone had tried them on a greyhound (and my dog hates having her feet touched!).  I see a few old comments so wanted to see if anyone has any updates.

https://toegrips.com/

Thanks!!