BauersMom
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We had our first winter-related tumble.
We had rain yesterday but the temperature dropped overnight - I really didn't think the porch was that icy, but it was and Berkeley came flying back onto the porch and fell, and then slid into the patio furniture. :(No cuts or anything, but I'm sure he'll be sore after that.
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Dr. Thomsen just called - Pinky's bloodwork from a week ago showed that her white count is a tad low - 2700? And the neutrophils were just around 2000. He hopes that the CBC we do tomorrow morning will show improvement or we might have to put off her first treatment
Oh no - that would stink to have to delay chemo before she even starts!
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My friend's girl was just diagnosed
. She was my first full adoption as a rep. They are still trying to decide what to do as they are just devastated. She said she'd been in here reading, so hopefully she will make an account and join us.One of our adopted dogs was recently diagnosed, and they were in that "what the hell do I do?" stage, so I called and talked to them. It's one of those things I'd rather not be "knowledgeable" about but it is what it is, so I will always try to help someone else going through it. At least that information goes to good use then.
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That's what I think it is - the hair that's come in is very soft and light-colored, and he's missing the darker, coarser part of his coat.
We joked at the vet Friday that he might need some Just for Men hair dye.
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The odd thing is his peach fuzz is totally a different color.
Here he is - this would be 4+ months post-amp.
He had a great time at the CGA reunion. He was feeling much better and the timing was within his usual "good" week post-chemo, so I'm glad he got to go. He got lots of attention, and met a few new friends.
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I just re-read this and realized that I was quite harsh. I don't mean to say that all bone cancer would be caught in the early stages if "vets did their jobs". Obviously that is not the case, although it would be wonderful if all bone cancer could be caught early. I have just run across a few vets who didn't do x-rays because: a) they didn't think a little limp would be cancer; b ) it would be too soon for it to show up on x-rays if the dog just started limping; or c) if it is bone cancer there isn't anything that can be done anyway.
This is my take, too. It's not that vets are incompetent, but I have seen so many cases where they dismiss osteo because of the reasons you state above (usually a, in my limited experience). A slight limp CAN be osteo. A limp that resolves and comes back CAN be osteo. No indication of pain at the bone CAN be osteo. None of that stuff can be used to rule out osteo, yet it happens all the time it appears.
RIP Gypsy - I'll never forget your incredible sense of humor and your joy in teasing me. I miss you sweetheart, every single solitary day.
Cancer does suck. I lost my first greyhound, Bauer, to hemangiosarcoma. We didn't know he had it until it ruptured - we were out of town, so he died at the kennel, which thankfully was attached to a vet so at least he had medical treatment when he went into crisis. I still feel guilty about leaving him.
We can only do so much, and it hurts when we feel like we've failed them. Gypsy knows you loved her dearly.I'm feeling so guilty. I can't find the right combination of meds to make him feel consistently good (never mind meds that would actually make him well). If he seemed to feel consistently bad, I'd know what to do for him, but I hate feeling that he's hiding his discomfort from me. And is he hiding it because he's not ready to go, or because he's looking after me?
Sam is gorgeous. I hope you can get the meds figured out.
And good news about Pinky's hair growth! Berkeley's peach fuzz is still holding strong.
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My ~13 year old needed to have a weight bearing toe removed and she did great. She never limped on it, but then again, it wasn't like she was doing crazy roomies in the yard at her age!
I wouldn't hesitate to do it again though. -
Yes, of course, sometimes early still isn't early enough, bur waiting isn't going to make those odds any better. At least knowing it is a terminal, painful disease will allow for the necessary decisions to be made.
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I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, Chris. You just never know.
And you bring up another point that I worry about - they scan the lungs, but we know that osteo mets can (and do) show up just about anywhere, it's just less common... Berkeley first limped in March. Diagnosed in July, amp on the 21st of that month. It was at a minimum then of 5 full months of him having/living with osteo. Who knows where it might have micrometastasized to in that time? Ugh. This damn disease.
My only hope for others is that they can catch it as soon as possible. If that means I become a broken record of "get x-rays... send to OSU for a second opinion..." so be it.
I don't want to be alarmist, but at the same time, I don't want folks to let an unknown limp linger without a dx.In other news, Berkeley had a really rough night last night, post-chemo. He was up at least 5 times, crying, wanting to go out, wanting to drink.... so glad that chemo is over. My poor guy.
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No, no - I knew what you were saying.
I certainly don't fault the owners in any way, it's more I wish vets were more proactive about getting the diagnostics and would hold off on the "almost definitely not osteo" verdict. I know not every limp is osteo, but if it goes on for any length of time or can't be attributed to something (corns, etc), do the x-rays!
The other thing is the "common" beliefs of what is or isn't osteo (vets and non-vets alike) also obscure the situation. Osteo is a tricky devil, and doesn't seem to like to play by the rules in greyhounds...
I think the whole thing bothers me because I was in *exactly* that spot in July. I see these posts and I know what it feels like to be confused about the whole thing. And it sucks when your vet points you in the wrong direction.
I love my vet, and I know that he took the standard approach to Berkeley's symptoms, so I know sometimes it is tough to figure it all out. The limp went away with NSAIDs and rest - and didn't reappear for MONTHS... and we did x-rays as soon as the limp came back. But because he was putting full weight on the leg still, and the limp was slight and intermittent, he just didn't think it could be osteo. If it wasn't for GT and Neylasmom and others suggesting that I not take a 'wait and see' approach, I would have wasted even more time before getting it all figured out.
I dunno, maybe I'm just rambling.
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I can think of at least several H&M posters dealing with dogs who are limping whose vets have ruled out osteo without x-rays just within the last few weeks! I don't understand this.
And I know there were a few of us who dealt with misdiagnoses or delayed diagnosis because the symptoms weren't typical.
Berkeley was not painful upon exam - he is very stoic - until the day of his amp. And even then, he had no limp. You just can't rule it out without x-rays, IMO. Obviously if there IS pain at the bone, then it's a clearer case.
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Why do so many vets 'rule out' osteo without x-rays? My vet was SURE it wasn't osteo (even after the x- rays! ) because Berk wasn't limping badly enough -and we know how that ended up.
I feel like any time a dog has an unresolved or undiagnosed limp, you need to get x-rays before any determination on osteo can be made. A physical exam is just not enough. But that doesn't seem to happen...
Seems irresponsible to say it's not something before you so the diagnostics.
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Thanks Chris.
Can't believe we're on to a new thread already! Ugh.Kristin - I would just make sure Pinky doesn't gain too much weight. Being on the thinner side will help her as a tripod, I'd assume. Berkeley lost 7 pounds after his amp! I remember thinking - that's one heavy leg.
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We did 6 of carbo. Because his numbers (wbc and platelets ) plummeted a few times, she lowered his dose - which means the four doses from OSU covered all six treatments.
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I've unfortunately had to deal with a dog that lost the tip of the ear - what a PITA! You'll still want to keep her from shaking with the stitches in.
What we did was wrap the head in gauze, and then slip a piece of pantyhose over the head, he looked like he was kind wearing a babushka. Use the other/good ear as an "anchor". That seemed to stay put.
This is how the vet did it originally, after his sutures:
Edit to add photo.
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Berkeley is done with chemo!
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Jennifer - thanks for the info. Today is our last chemo day with the carbo, and we'll be discussing "next steps" so these posts are timely.
So very sad to see Faye Oops' name in Remembrance today.
I'm also curious to hear what Dr. Couto says about Gabe's case. Does seem very unusual.
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I am so sorry. Godspeed, Faye Oops!
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Is there anything in particular I should be sure to ask him about? I'm still thinking we'll go with the carboplatin. We'll discuss her lupus and the possible implications that might entail. Anything else I should ask about?
Most likely they've cover the big points but just thinking out loud - when do they want her in for bloodwork, any particular side-effects you should be looking for with a lupus dog that may be 'of concern'... and make sure they give you Cerenia to have on hand just in case. We didn't for the second round of chemo and I wish I had.
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It's hard to feel sorry for a couple of slugs, but...really-- The poor things minding their own business, and all of a sudden The sky is falling! The sky is fall--
:lolThe poor, poor slugs.
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Yeah, we're in the "what to do after chemo" stage now too.
At this point, I think I will just go with whatever the onco vet recommends for him. His numbers got really low at one point, so I wouldn't want to put him at a higher risk of issues for unknown or unproven benefits...but at the same time, I want to do everything we can within reason. It's tough.
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Kristin, bone growth is part of osteosarcoma. It's called lytic growth.
Well, crap
But, you knew it was osteo, though. All signs point to catching it early, so don't read too much into the report as far as a prognosis. Just keeping putting up the good fight and take it day by day.
Edit to change what I wanted to say!
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How often do they usually do chemo treatments?
Ours were every three weeks, assuming blood work is OK. But almost half have been postponed due to low platelets or low WBC counts... so some every three weeks, some every four weeks.
Wendy, thanks for the point about worrying about things if she's just had chemo. Guess my babbling was not all for nothing
because that hadn't occurred to me. If things work the way I have them planned, she will have her first chemo treatment the week of December 5th. The party is on the 11th.Many of the people that will be there are friends in some capacity or another and know her, so they'll be excited to see her. But, there are some people that I don't know and I'm sure I'll have to answer some questions. We already get questions from other clients at the vet's office if we're there waiting, so, I'm used to that part of things.
That's 6 days post treatment, which is in the nadir range for many dogs, but I think she will be fine, especially since this is her first (I think???) treatment. You'll have peace of mind by getting the CBC though. I thought I could tell by Twiggy's behavior how she was doing, but we had to postpone her #3 treatment due to low neutrophils one time (and she was taking me on daily 1+ mile runs at the time, so the result surprised me).
I could never tell how Berkeley was feeling - even the times when the vet was like "Whoa, that's low." he was acting totally normal. Only the little bit of nausea within the 24-48 hours after chemo was obvious, otherwise, he acted fine!
So the bloodwork is more 'trustworthy' for some, I'd say.
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Question that I know the answer to but need some validation and maybe some trade secrets...our group's Christmas party is on the 11th. I shouldn't feel bad taking Pinky, should I? As long as I make sure she's got a spot to lay down if she gets tired?
I just feel like she should be treated as if she is "normal"...right?
Guess I'm worried that maybe people will think I'm mean for bringing her. But I know there are also a lot of people who will be so happy to see her too.
I'm bringing Berkeley to our group's upcoming reunion. He's not in pain and worst case scenario is he might get tired (but we'll have a bed) so there's really no reason to not bring them! He usually enjoys the doggie events, too, so it's good for him to get out and socialize.
Unfortunately, the response I usually get when people see him is "Aww, poor thing" type stuff. I try to get them to see that he's happy and living life fine with three legs and there's no need for pity.
We had rain yesterday but the temperature dropped overnight - I really didn't think the porch was that icy, but it was and Berkeley came flying back onto the porch and fell, and then slid into the patio furniture. 
because that hadn't occurred to me. If things work the way I have them planned, she will have her first chemo treatment the week of December 5th. The party is on the 11th.
Osteo Thread
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Good job Pinky!
The nausea hits about ~6 hours after chemo. So if you find her needing it after an afternoon chemo session, how late are they open?
We had a really rough night after round #2 because we didn't have any Cerenia on hand, and I felt horrible. After that, I gave it BEFORE the chemo session and then for 2 days after. Better to prevent it, than to have a very uncomfortable, miserable dog, IMO.
I purchased two heated snow-melting mats for the back porch - they will be here Monday. A small fortune, but I don't ever want to have to see him fall like that again.