KickReturn
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Great news! What a huge relief. I am a little confused on one point: I thought you'd been giving him Gabapentin, which does target nerve pain, rather than an anti-inflammatory. For what it's worth, Sweep's limp did not respond at all to Gabapentin either, but she does well with Previcox (NSAID). Regardless, I hope rest and the right meds do the trick for Honor.
Giving gabapentin which helps. Limp is 50% better with it.
Check his paws for corns - they can be very hard to spot. If you are unsure, take pictures of his paws and people here will be able to tell.
Feet have been checked very carefully. The limp is the same even in parts of our home that have plush carpet. It's not a foot/pad thing.
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Good news, X-ray is clear. More then just clear. Everything looks first rate including the portion of spine that was captured. The vet simply could not get a pain response. Tried everything. The fact that an anti-inflammatory had no effect suggests some kind of nerve pain. We have a very good animal chiropractor in town. Worth a check up with her. Right now it's a mystery, but it's still one heck of a limp for no obvious reason.
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Imagine your have a very painful sprain. You have the option of 1) relaxing at home with your person, and having treats and loving, or 2) being taken on a greyhound walk with dogs and people you don't know, when every step is painful.
Which do you think your boy would pick?
If it was me, and I could still weight bear and walk, I would want to be out and moving, and in fact I have done exactly that on many occasions throughout my life. When you can't, then it's obvious you can't, and then it's time to stay home. But when you still can, I believe you should. And for Honor, his single greatest joy in life is to meet a new person or a new dog. He will stop, refuse to move, and cry if he can't approach to say hello.
Off to the vet right now for the X-ray. Fingers crossed.
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Hi KickReturn,
thank you for asking what I have been wondering in my head for a couple of weeks. My boy Remy has had a front left leg limp. it comes and goes. the last couple of weeks it's been more evident. i know his lineage has some cancer and i dread getting the diagnosis. i have checked his pads, toes, wrist, he sleeps on the king size bed all day and on a xl twin bed at night. he just avoids dog beds becase he is a special dog. it took him years to get over being a spook, the adaptil plug ins and collar worked wonders for him. he still likes to run laps around the yard, he wants to go for walks, the limp is only pronounced right after he get up from sleeping.
i appreciate your asking and the answers from everyone.
If the limp seems to lessen as he get moving, then it is more likely a soft tissue injury like tendonitis, or perhaps arthritis. These sorts of injuries or conditions are relieved somewhat with motion up to a point - same as with people. My experience with my first grey and cancer was that the limp was slight, or off and on for a few weeks, and then all of a sudden it got more serious. Motion, rest, or anti-inflammatories made no difference. Pain meds did help.The worsening of the limp was also accompanied by occasional diarrhea and increased drinking and urinating - pretty much what I am seeing now which is why I am so suspicious. My current grey's grand sire was my first grey's sire- Kiowa Sweet Trey, so a tight genetic connection. Perhaps a factor - no way to really know.
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That's faulty logic, no offense. If you know you'd put him to sleep if the x-ray showed cancer and you're just avoiding the x-ray so you can keep him alive without feeling guilty, it just doesn't make sense.
Really, with bone cancer you cannot predict whether or when a fracture will occur. A radiologist once told me that he had seen dogs break bones with almost no evidence of cancer (and I've seen it a number of times on this site where the fracture is the first clue anything was wrong) and he's seen dogs who he couldn't believe were walking that seemed fine. But generally speaking, if there isn't a lot of damage to the bone yet, there's a much less significant risk of a fracture than if the bone is eaten away. I understand not keeping a dog in pain when he has a fatal disease, but I don't think the issue needs to be so black and white. You may very well be able to manage his pain just fine with meds. Many years ago, Neyla was diagnosed in May with osteo via x-rays. Her pain was managed completely with minimal meds for months and we did x-rays periodically to monitor for bone changes so I could put her to sleep if the bone was getting eaten away and fracture risk was increasing. I didn't let her run off leash outside and I made steps so she wouldn't jump down off the furniture (it was in her front left shoulder), but otherwise I didn't restrict her activity. She ran and played on the carpet in the condo, went up and down multiple flights of stairs daily, took normal walks, even went for hikes, albeit shorter ones than we had done previously and for 5 months we saw virtually no change. In October things started to progress a little, moreso in November and in December I let her go. I can't imagine not having had those months to celebrate and spoil her and she had a great quality of life.
You just never know. Just get the x-ray.
This is the insight I was looking for - thank you. X-ray tomorrow. I'll let y'all know the outcome.
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I hope you're wrong as well. But why not get the x-ray now rather than waiting and not insist on a suspicious x-ray being a death sentence? If he has cancer, he has cancer. You *knowing* about the cancer does nothing to mitigate the risk of his leg breaking between now and Monday. On the contrary, it might make you more inclined to provide better pain management or restrict exercise in some additional way. And while you cannot predict whether a leg will break based on x-rays - it can certainly give you information that may be useful. If it looks like osteo but the damage to the bone is minimal, you may have many months where you can avoid him being painful with medications. Or if you see the bone is almost completely eaten away, you may decide not to wait until Monday, as difficult as that might be. I always think more information is better than less. Good luck.
My dilemma is that if the X-ray shows the limp is due to osteo, I won't bring him home regardless of how advanced the cancer is. He is limping due to pain and that is not going to get better. I guess I am stalling to enjoy him for just a while longer. Yes, an X-ray ASAP is the right thing to do. I just was trying to get a sense of how real the risk of fracture is. Maybe someone has seen this pattern and has some insight. I guess it is a bit of an impossible question to answer.
If he's avoiding all his beds, he is clearly uncomfortable. I would take him in for X-rays ASAP. I do not walk hounds who are limping in pain, as that usually exacerbates their problems. IME, limps require rest. Considering his excessive exercise for a recently adopted 7 year old senior, It could be over usage or many other treatable possibilities. Please try not to assume osteo. until you have proof. If it happens to be osteo., he would need more complete pain medications ASAP.
Honor is in our positive healing thoughts.
Oh, no problem with the beds, as long as they are right beside me.
And while Honor was getting more exercise than most Greys, we had built up his endurance carefully and of late had been doing less because of terrible weather.
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This is not the post I was hoping to make. 4 months ago I adopted a beautiful blue brindle boy named Honor. He has just turned 7, and in the past couple of days what was an occasional odd step has become a full limp. Front left is the problem. It has also been accompanied by occasional diarrhea. The symptoms are identical to what my previous grey Hester experienced due to osteosarcoma. I am giving gabapentin to manage pain. Honor is getting around OK. Can still do stairs, still keen for walks, although I shorten them a bit, appetite good, etc.
My plan is to go for an X-ray and if it's cancer he will be euthanized then and there. Fingers crossed it is something else but I know it's not the result of some injury I did not see occur. I have also examined and tested every joint from the toes up and can't get a pain response, so it's not foot, wrist, elbow etc. I have also dug my fingers hard into every tendon, ligament, muscle and all is sound. All I get is some resistance to foreleg extension. I have seen this movie before.
My question: would it be OK to push him to next Monday - six days, assuming there is no significant deterioration? There is a big greyhound walk with our group on Sunday and he has never had the experience. I think it would be a nice way to end things if it comes to that. My fear about delaying things is a leg fracture.
Saddest thing is he seems to know. He won't leave my side. Is refusing to go to any of his 10 beds located throughout our house. Instead he insists on sleeping on the floor under whatever chair I happen to be sitting in.
Only 4 months? I don't even have any decent photos of him yet. Boy would I love to be wrong about all of this.
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A first time dog owner (let alone a first time greyhound owner) should not have to fight this battle. Return the dog before you get too attached. The challenge to fix this could be overwhelming, and it will be even harder for the dog, and success is not guaranteed. Sorry. As a first timer you are entitled to a greyhound that is perfect with cats from day one. My greyhound gets excited by cats - but that is because he wants to be their friend. The right one is out there and waiting for you.
Separation anxiety at night? When you leave the house? Or when you go to bed? Please realize that the majority of greyhounds must sleep where they can see their people.
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Thanks Krissy - that's good info. Our exercise regimen is such that Honor might be able to go up to 4 cups per day. But I'll watch him like a hawk. Fat greyhounds make me angry.
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I always give raw bones as a mid-day snack, turkey necks, pork neck etc. Raw fed poos were well formed, very firm - typical raw fed output, but just a little bit at a time. Yes the higher frequency output was a surprise to me also. My assumption is that this is a peculiarity of my new boy's digestive system. I had wondered if perhaps I was feeding too much, but weight was stable over two months. Showing lot's of rib.
And yes Orijen is ridiculously expensive - close to the cost of raw.
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75 lb male, 3 hours walking per day average, most of it off-leash, so more scampering around than compared to leash walking.
Just switched from raw to Orijen Adult. Guidlines say about two cups a day which seems far too little. I understand that kibble is calorie dense compared to raw, it's just that I have no kibble experience having raw fed all my dogs.
I am good at watching my dogs physique to maintain weight but I would like to start off with close to the correct amount. Any advice is appreciated.
(Because I know your curious, I switched away from raw because I suspected it was leading to regular 2:00 AM turnout. Yesterday was the first full kibble day and presto - no middle of the night turnout. Seems the raw resulted in many very small bowel movements.)
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I am thinking of changing his food to kibble. Hate to do it but I need to change up his digestive pattern. I am not looking forward to the farting and the giant piles. Up until now raw has been so good for all my dogs.
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A greyhound left alone in a crate in your home is very different than at the track surrounded by 20 other greyhounds in crates. Please set up a camera to observe his behaviour while you are gone or listen discreetly. Some greys panic in crates when alone and can injure themselves trying to escape. Broken teeth from chewing metal bars is not uncommon. If you suspect that your dog is not happy in the crate then find another solution.
Sounds like you are doing everything right. The approached that worked for me with separation anxiety and house training was to walk the dog as much as possible before I left it alone. At the very least this insured that the dog was empty before being confined indoors. Many greys need extensive walking until they empty themselves out completely. Accidents can still happen but this tilts the odds in your favour. A tired dog will also be less anxious.
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Honor is all business. Goes straight out, poo followed by pee, and then runs straight back to bed.
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A small issue with what is turning out to be a wonderful dog. Honor is asking to go out between midnight and 2:00 AM too many nights. When he goes out he will poo first, then pee.
His daily feeding and exercise schedule is:
7:30 AM breakfast followed by turnout
9:00 - 10:30 AM walk
1:00 PM turkey neck or pork neck in the yard
4:00 - 5:00 PM walk
5:00 PM dinner
8:30 - 9:30 PM walk, always includes a poo, sometime two.
9:35 PM bedtime (dogs and people).
He is raw fed 1 pound of ground chicken or turkey and vitamin supplement at each meal. Gets a can of sardines or tuna with dinner. He has from 5 to 8 bowel movements per day which seems a lot but the total amount seems right - it's just a little bit each time. As with raw fed dogs they are very small and firm. Sometimes he produces nothing more than a couple of acorn sized balls. He doesn't seem to strain unduly.
Any tips to stop the 2:00 AM visit to the yard? Is there a reasonable schedule/dietary adjustment I can make? Yes we go to bed early, but I would have no complaint if he needed to go out at 5:00 AM. The whole thing is a bit strange because on nights he sleeps through, he is in no hurry to get out in the morning and will eat breakfast before asking to go out. He is well house trained and no accidents, but I don't want to push him. IMO if a dog asks to go out then they should go out.
I believe what is coming out of him in the middle of the night is the last remnants of his breakfast. I don't think his dinner reappears until the next day.
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Wow, many people are extra careful. I guess it's the only way to guarantee no trouble. However many of our walks are in areas where we will meet at least a dozen other dogs and sometimes double that number or more over the course of a one hour hike. 99% are off leash, so unimpeded greetings are going to happen. The benefit to Honor of being able to roam freely and interact with so many dogs and people is worth the small risk. Interestingly, in literally thousands of greetings I have never seen a fight or bite, with my dogs or any others. I have heard stories but it's rare.
FWIW, today I took a more interventionist approach. Any dogs that got too rambunctious got a poke or a shove to keep them at bay. It worked out although some just won't quit. At one point, when I stopped to admire a friends ridgeback, their seven month old mini doodle puppy sneaked behind Honor who was a bit further ahead on the trail, and mounted him. The little guy could just barely get his front paws on Honors rump. Honor stood in the trail waiting for me with the puppy frozen in position. It was as if Honor didn't notice, he certainly didn't mind. Maybe like Hester the young and the small don't count in his eyes. On a brighter note, this afternoon a notoriously pervy weimaraner in our neighbourhood tried to mount Honor, and Honor spun and showed some teeth, so maybe he has some confidence after all, although he was on a leash for this situation so maybe that changes things. We are still getting to know him.
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In all the years that I had Hester, he was never once touched by another dog (tiny dogs were allowed). If he wanted more space, he would simply raise an eyebrow or an ear and no dog would come any closer than about three feet. Those that crossed the line instantly regretted it.
Now this new guy Honor, he just wants to be everyone's friend, and we have yet to be out without other dogs pawing him, jumping at him etc. No humping attempts, just many other dogs seem desperate to play/wrestle with him. He loves doggie affection, nose to nose, bum sniffing, etc., but not the rough contact. Today a fabulous husky cross puppy jumped at his face a wrapped its forelegs around Honor's neck. Honor stood there looking up at me with the puppy hanging on him like a furry necklace and gave a little cry. I was so shocked he didn't sort things out for himself. I think he is so gentle that it is simply not in his make-up to discipline another dog.
Do I leave him to deal with this or do I intervene? For the balance of our walk today I took to stepping in an giving the offenders a little pinch on the shoulder. This works really well but I wonder if I am robbing Honor of an opportunity to learn to "speak up" on his own behalf. My guess is that he has had no off-leash contact since his racing days, maybe even back to when he was a puppy on the farm, and probably never with non-greyhounds.
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With the deer seeking missile Archer rehomed, I decided that life without a greyhound was nowhere near as good as life with one. I was in no hurry, but when I got news of a 7 year old gentle blue brindle that had lost his family due to medical reasons (their's, not his) I just couldn't ignore him. What it must be like to know proper retirement, and then to end up back in a crate in a "facility" without your family? I can't imagine. It broke my heart to think what this boy must be going through.
So I filled out some paperwork, hopped in my SUV, crossed an international border and two states, and grabbed him. Apparently he was motionless all day as people came and went but when I walked in to the area where the dogs were held he went berserk. When I got him outside he threw himself at my vehicle. He knew!
Some interesting notes in the first few days.
The family that gave him up was devastated, so distraught that a surrender form was not properly filled out. As a result we really know nothing about him other than he is cat safe.
His nails were very long which doesn't mean much except I wonder how much he was walked, I would expect them to be shorter - particularly because he seems to prefer walking on the cement sidewalk as opposed to grass.
He walked with his head down, not looking around or sniffing much. Again it makes me wonder exactly what his routine was. Perhaps he was walked in a more regimented fashion as many owners do. He does prefer the left side.
Could not do stairs! Our stairs are fully carpeted and very wide - as easy as stairs can be. After a day he could go up but not down. Then he got the down part but forgot how to go up. All sorted out in a week but odd for a dog with home experience.
When I gave a wait command, he showed some fear and retreated to his bed. Interesting. We do use "wait" outside and he is fine.
Weight was good, hind quarters decent, shoulders a bit soft and weak. When I let him off lead to romp around he was a bit awkward, even had a bit of a spill. Perhaps he has never run on uneven ground or maybe he hasn't done much or any running since retirement. He seems slow for a dog with 70 races.
Teeth are very good but his jaw is very weak. We are addressing this with some half frozen turkey necks or pork neck bones ever day as a mid-day snack.
Recall is not bad unless there is a bum to be sniffed.
Nicely house-trained and only minor SA.
Now that we are three weeks in, it is apparent we have an absolute gem of a greyhound on our hands. The guy is just thrilled to meet any person or dog we encounter. Helicopter tail, talker, smiler, lots of teeth chatter. He just loves human contact and will not let you be until he has had a full rub down and body scratch. The belly must also be stroked for several minutes or there will be consequences.
I can tell he still has some pain from his loss but we are pulling out all the stops to give this boy the best life possible. He is learning to love our thrice daily hikes and he marches enthusiastically along. He is looking around more and stopping to sniff regularly. I think this is a function of leaving the leash completely loose and allowing him to make all the decisions. He gets happier by the day and is bonding with family members well. Showing signs of becoming quite the velcro dog with me. We are all thrilled with him.
Meet Honor. Better photographs will follow. The light is so bad this time of year I haven't even bothered. If any forum members happen to be familiar with this dog from his earlier life, please respect the privacy of the previous owners. If you know them, tell them their Honor is in a great place and will be deeply loved for the rest of his days.
Below with Hester's widow (didn't take her long to get over Hester's passing lol). I borrowed her from her owners for the first week to help with orientation. Never seen a bed share like this before in my house.
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I muzzle and have a helper control the head and feed treats while I go to work with the dremmel with the dog standing. I sometimes use my body to pin the dog against a wall if they are trying too hard to pull away. I have also done a friends dog that would roach while I did her nails - but she's a goofy princess.
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Members of this forum know me to be relentless on the exercise issue. When I read about a problem with the mouth - chewing or barking, I suspect a lack of exercise. I live in a neighborhood filled with dogs. None of them bark except for the ones that are never walked - and those dogs bark a lot!. A good test would be to see if Arwyn ever barks on days when she has had a major amount of exercise. Granted the sudden onset of barking is very strange. Good luck, I hope this gets resolved.
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Tincture of Aconite. Very good to know. Thanks for the tip. Should the OP try this, please come back and tell us your results.
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You didn't mention how much exercise she is getting.
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For those who missed it, Archer's interest in the deer that live in our neighbourhood was so extreme that it was only a matter of time until he went through a window after one. Living in a house where the exterior walls are mostly glass didn't help matters. Archer is now living in another city with an absolutely fabulous family. Best of all the situation is a bit more urban and deer are a rarity.
Stay tuned, there is another greyhound in my future. I will be sure to share him.
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Good grief. This can't be right, surely Koopa is getting a big walk in the morning? Even in the worst weather I would be terrified to leave a dog that didn't have at least a brisk 20 - 30 minute walk as an absolute minimum. For a new dog I would walk their legs off. I wanted them so tired they could hardly take another step before I left them for any significant length of time. This can be done in an hour for most greyhounds, but for some it takes even more time. I just assumed this is what one has to do. Be glad you're not trying to tire out a border collie.
Once the walking is taken care of than it might be possible to work on separation anxiety.
Osteo In Recently Adopted Greyhound
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Assuming the cancer is reasonably advanced, I would euthanize immediately. When my first grey Hester was in the same situation I relied on the advice of a very experienced Greyhound person and she advised me not to even take the dog home after the X-ray. Her reasoning was that in the best case scenario the dog will experience mostly pain, and in the worst case scenario, one wrong step could lead to a fracture that would result in a horrific ending. As a 9.5 year old dog, amputation just doesn't seem a wise choice.
These are special dogs and they require and deserve our courage, and in particular that when necessary we have the courage to place their needs ahead of our own.