KickReturn
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Does he have the same problem after a 1 hour walk?
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Thrilled to hear about progress on the stairs and freedom from the crate. Make sure Anders has a bed located near where you sleep if that's where he wants to be.
You are correct regarding collars. A light comfortable collar for tags and a martingale for walking. Never leave an unattended dog with a martingale on, some say there is a risk of strangulation. Some owners leave their dogs with ID collars on all the time so that the dog can be returned if it ever escapes. Others let their dogs go naked (no collars) in the house.
BTW a nice wide martingale is more comfortable and safer.
This is a typical setup:
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Adoption agencies need to make adopters aware that the more freedom that is given to some Greyhounds, the better they will do. Some of these sensitive souls need to be in their favorite sleeping place, be able to roam and check out different spots, or locate themselves in certain vantage points to feel secure when they are alone. Muzzles can be used to protect the house and dog if needed. If I had to do it over again I would have placed an open crate covered with a blanket in the main area of the house and a soft bed in every other room of the house from day one. The dog would choose what is best.
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Hi, I adopted a Greyhound (Anders) about a month ago now and we have been adjusting to each other. I do think I was ill prepared and did not understand everything about a retired racer, even though I tried to be as prepared as possible. Right now I am struggling with a few things. He has been crying all night in his crate that is downstairs (he was initially good but now from 4am-8am he is crying), I want him to be in my room (I think he would behave on his bed) however I can't get him up the wooden steps. Any advice on how to push this? He will walk up them as far as his front feet will allow, but those back legs will not leave the safety of the first floor.
Also I did not realize how serious sleep aggression was, I have learned now that Anders does not like to be bothered while on his bed. How have you dealt with this? Just leave it be? Also I would like to be able to walk him with other dogs but our first experience he snapped at a puppy, because the puppy was hyper and jumped on him (he was muzzled).
We are getting along otherwise and he is a great guy, however I am a little disappointed that he is not as cuddly as other breeds. I also don't know anyone near me that has adopted a greyhound.
Any advice would be helpful, right now I have been trying to let him acclimate and gain his trust before I push obedience and working on aggression (although I don't like to say he is aggressive because I don’t think he can help it).
So do these things fall in place through time or is there any recommendations. I am mainly afraid of doing something wrong and him getting worse.
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Beth (bethj113@comcast.net)
So sorry you are struggling, having doubts etc.
Some of this has already been stated but:
Most Greys must be able to see their people at night period. Some Greys will destroy themselves trying to get to their people. Please be careful.
If the stairs are slippery shiny wood your Grey will probably never climb them - he would have done it by now if he had it in him. And if he does do it, he won't be happy about it. I am not a fan of add on treads because they will still leave some slippery places and Anders could find them and fall. They can work but IMO full carpet coverage is the way to go - sorry. However leave him out of the crate with the light on when you go to bed and see if he will overcome his fear to get to you.
The sleep agression will fade as he learns to trust you. But always approach with extreme care. Never scold when he growls - you want him to growl at you if he feels the need. We had occasional growling for two years. We always rewarded it with a quick "good boy" and moved away.
In time Anders will learn that other dogs mean no harm and he will reduce his scolding of them. This take times and exposure and must be managed with care. Learn to read his body language when greeting other dogs. Remember he only speaks Greyhound. Most dogs raised by people are pretty good but some can be out of line.
Why should he be cuddly with you? What have you done to earn this type of treatment? Its been a month. While it sounds like he is starting to bond with you, please understand that for many, cuddling takes many months or years and sometimes will never happen when the dog is down. This is not a dog that came to you at 4 weeks old and thinks you are its mommy. Right now you are just another in a long line of various servants that the dog has had throughout its life/career. In time you will become the center of his world and it will be so much sweeter and more intense because you earned it.
Right now the most important thing is to get Anders with you at night - he must be with you - the crying is real sadness and fear. Also if it can work, if he does not get into stuff, get rid of the crate.
Anders sounds identical to my Hester when he joined us. If you only new what awaits you, you would have no doubts. Look at the thread in this forum titled Increasing Affection.
And this has happened only once, I waited two years for it, but it was totally worth it:
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Just a heads up for new owners of the more aloof version of our favourite breed. I know many of you are at times concerned when your Grey growls at you when you approach while they are down. There are many threads that discuss this that are worth reading. My Hester is one such Grey who after two years will still occasionally “ask” members of my family to be left alone (but no growling at his daddy for almost a year now.)
What we are learning however is that Hester loves to be touched when he is up and he is taking it to quite a high level. He presents himself for gentle stroking of the belly (not the chest) after meals, and thorough ear neck, and leg scratching is a twice daily requirement. Most interesting of all Hester loves to rub his face against my face. When this first happened he was concerned but now if I pull away he follows and demands more. It is very cat like – the way a cat would rub its face against your leg. If I get the nerve I will post a video (it’s a bit weird).
So don’t despair, your Grey may never be able to snuggle with you on the couch but there is lots of affection that can be given standing up. Just build up slowly and don't persist if the dog seems uncomfortable or nervous.
Not the face rubbing but he likes this type of contact also:
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Wow, 4 days. Patience please.
For protecting your home a muzzle may be better than a crate. Some dogs can never be crated. If you show her, your dog may quickly learn what is off limits and become trustworthy.
Don't try to keep your Grey away from you, it is likely not possible. She will likely be less needy as she gains confidence over the next several months/years. Make sure you have a soft bed in every room where you spend time. That way she can be comfortable. Expect her to always be with you when you are home. (In my opinion she should be on a bed beside yours - not in your bed with you.)
After two years I have never been in a room without my Grey when I am home. Velcro dogs are the best. Only an extreme velcro dog will do this with zero training:
Have fun and enjoy the ride.
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Expect things to keep improving. Depending on what Rudy's personality is like, a previous poster's suggestion of just yelling back just might work. I have never used that tactic on a Greyhound but I have seen it work on other breeds.
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Contrary to popular belief, dogs are not obsessed with power and control. They don't care about "compliance" because to care about another creature's compliance necessarily demands a high functioning theory of mind. As far as we know, dogs do not possess a sophisticated theory of mind, and, because of this, true behavior analyses cannot make claims like "dogs demand compliance" from each other.
Maybe you misunderstand what I mean by compliance, it may have absolutely nothing to do with power or control. Rather it seemed that Hester was seeking a specific behaviour from the Deerhound. Maybe run, maybe stand still, turn around, I have no idea exactly what he wanted, but he wanted something or he wanted the absence of something. That first video was taken 30 seconds before the Deerhound interaction, both started exactly the same but they ended so differently. What I want to know is why. This is not random expression by Hester in the absence of stimuli.
Hester in fact demands specific behaviour from me all the time so why not of other dogs? When he wants to go for a walk he will push me with his forehead toward the door. I have a girlie dog staying with me now who demands all sorts of behaviours. She yodels when she wants me to get her food, she grabs my legs with both her front paws when she wants to be hugged, and she whimpers pitiously when she wants to be invited on the bed (she is the very best doggie in the world). When I comply and demonstrate the desired behaviour the demanding behaviours are extinguished. This girllie dog also has very clear demands for Hester which is always either lets play, or can I try your bed. She gets compliance with the bed sometimes but never the play.
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This is great to hear. I is very easy to forget how long it can take for some of these dogs to learn that nothing bad is going to happen to them. It is a big investment for you but a very great payoff it seems. Well done. I am sure he will get better yet.
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A bit concerning is that Hester is doing the jumps to the deerhound which is leaving his underside unprotected (front chest area and throat). If another dog like a rottie or pit decided to go for him, they could do some serious damage before you have a chance to call him away. Pit bulls instinctively go for the throat and just latch on.
Hester encounters Pit Bulls and Rotweilers on a regular basis. He simply does not display this type of behaviour with those dogs. He just avoids them or allows them to sniff his butt.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing or understanding where the problem is here.
His tail is wagging, and they're both play-bowing and jumping toward each other. This is exactly how my guys play with each other and other greyhounds. They bark and sometimes make snarl-y noises and mean-looking faces. It's been typical chase-and-be-chased, bitey-face play behavior. One grey that we petsit from time to time (GT'er jenniferk's Django) will actually bark in my dogs' faces and not stop until they run with him. OTOH, I've definitely seen my guys in tense greetings with strange dogs. When this happens, it's clear they're uncomfortable and the signals are very clear. Growling, warning snap, whale eye, trying to get away. They would never wag their tail or play-bow at a dog they were scared of. I wouldn't be too concerned about this.
I don't disagree with you but not shown on the video is that this did escalate to Hester snapping a couple of times. The Deerhound did become a bit frightened but was not clever enough to back off and Hester would not let it go either. Maybe he is just not good at playing.
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Toward the end of the second video, I was wondering if Hester was still trying to play or attempting to chase off the deerhound. His facial expression seems a little more tense than just wanting to play. Your addition information confirms that he had perhaps had enough.
This how the situation felt at the time.
Interestingly, while the deerhound is focused on Hester, he's not making a lot of advances. Hester is the one who seems to move toward the deerhound and initiate most of the interactions.
I really don't see anything to indicate the deerhound is being bossy. I see an excited young dog who wants to play, but is being cautious and backs off when the other dog tells him off. The signals I'm looking at are how the deerhound has his weight shifted back, playbows, and runs away when Hester barks/growls and jumps toward him.
Except for when the Deerhound takes a quick shot at Hester near the beginning of the video and then again when Hester leads off responding to the owners voice, this is how I interpreted it also which is why a am a bit concerned. It's like Hester is absolutely demanding complete compliance to some behaviour and will not quit till he gets it. He has done this with Greyhounds also but as soon as the ears go up the other Greys respond immediately so there is no escalation - that's the end of it. And he settles as soon as the other dogs slow down and engage in calm, respectful sniffing.
The other thought I have is that he may be asking to other dog to run so he can chase. And when that doesn't work out he doesn't know what to do.
It is all very out of place for a dog the generally has very high emotional intelligence. Afterall this is a major energy expenditure for a dog that has already had a decent run and was just finishing an hour and a half hike. He is generally so good that I wonder if there isn't a very good reason for such agressive, competitive behaviour. Nonetheless, I still don't find it acceptable. Further I don't think this can be trained out of him. Fortunately I can call him out of it and leash him.
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I know you said it got worse later, but I'm really not seeing that in this video.
It was like Hester's "play" at the beginning evolved into an attempt to get the Deerhound to stop trying to engage him. More like he was trying to chase him off. The Deerhound ran a couple laps and Hester halfheartedly chased. The Deerhound came back and Hester resumed "harrassing" him. The interaction elevated to Hester snapping a couple of times when the Deerhound wouldn't back off. That's when I recalled him. For Hester, interactions of this type are only one sided. He never allows the other dog to assume the role of aggressor. I am starting to wonder if he has a problem with large breeds. He just doesn't seem to know how to play - it's as if this type of interaction is an intense competition.
Did I hear her say the Deerhound was not neutered? For some reason my greyhound Elton hated non neutered dogs. He was absolutely the best natured dog ever with all breeds and sizes unless they were not neutered. I don't know why. He had been for years but could immediately tell if another dog was not.
Hester doesn't seem to be bothered by testicles one way or the other. (other than maybe wishing he still had his.)
The behaviour of the little dog is the key to it. The normal Calming Signal protocols were not being observed by the two larger ones and the little dog thought there may be a fight in the offing.
I thought Hester did very well with the little dog. He seemed to switch off immediately, gave a polite sniff, and then got back to business with the Deerhound.
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Today I fiimed two greetings. The first was a typical Hester greeting. It begins with a leaping approach the last bit of which is seen at the very start of the video. The balance of the interaction is typical and occurs in the majority of cases where Hester actually acknowleges other dog. (Half of the time he just trots by.) Hester had never met these dogs before.
This second video is where it goes bad. For about the last year I have not seen this type of behaviour, certainly nothing this bad. Yes the Deerhound does not avert his gaze, and some of the interaction was just Hester's attempt to play which he is still learning but most of it goes too far for my liking. The Deerhound is two years old. Later it actually got worse at which point I called him to me. Hester would just not chill out as long as the Deerhound was focused on him. The vocalizations are amazing though. Never heard a dog make those sounds. (The Deerhound never made a peep.)
Can anyone explain what might trigger this reaction?
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If one is sharing space with your one's dog, one must be aware of where all the dogs parts are at all times. Even if the dog is good about keeping to themselves, sooner or late a part will end up under you.
At night I slide my feet along the floor when I walk in or bedroom. I'd rather bump a dog with my toe than step on one (it can be very dark if there are no stars or moon).
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Dog owners around here seem to be very knowlegable. They are always supportive of Hester when he growls at their dogs for getting a little too friendly. Not had one complaint. I still appologize for him sometimes - can't help myself. Now that I think of it I don't ever recall other dogs every growling at Hester (except for the little crazy ones).
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Hester has one every day. I feed them partially frozen. When he first arrived he used to plow through them in about 30 seconds. He has finally learned to savour them and takes a bit more time. It is amazing to see how powerfull his jaws are compared to dogs that visit who do not get such things. So many health benefits.
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I guess with a bite history you have to be extra careful.
We started with similar problems though from your description not as severe, but my Hester would definitely put on a terrifying display when dogs did not give him the space he wanted. What we did notice was that over time as the contact with other big dogs accumulated, he seemed to realize that he was not in any danger and has become relatively tolerant. Dogs have even tried to mount him and lived to tell the tale.
There may be a chance that over time your dog will become less defensive/agressive in these situations. I know you are already two years in, but how much off leash contact of this sort has she really had. Being approached by a large, strange off leash dog may still be a new and scary thing for her and if that is the case there is hope for improvement. If she has already had lots of exposure of this type and is still having problems than more advance training technique or complete avoidance is called for.
Good luck.
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Thanks JJNg, that was the guidence I was looking for.
My sense is that Hester was raced very light at 83 lbs. I have seen a photo of him shortly after his retirement and he had no more muscle mass than he does now. The only part of him that feels a bit "thick" to the touch is his neck area. Everything else just seems like skin on top of muscle. He definitely could not be under or at his racing weight. But my guess is that lighter then his current weight, maybe even close to racing weight might be healthier for the legs. He is raw fed FWIW. I have to get some better photos.
and your dog is stunning. No offense to that later photo but that first one - the body on him - perfection.
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Hester weighs 95 lb and you huffed him up the side of that steep-a$$ cliff?
Holy criminy, man, maybe we should see some pics of your own ripped self
Ha Ha - careful what you wish for - I promise it's not that pretty. Hester is officially on a diet (maybe his dad too).
The toughest thing I ever had to do with a dog was carry a 65 lb girly Grey, who cut her leg on a barnacle, about half a mile along a beach and up a massive rickety stairway - that did me in pretty good. (There is still one blood stain in the back of my vehicle that I leave as a reminder - love her so much - methinks I may be a bit mad)
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A recent trip to the vet meant Hester was on the scale for the first time since June. To my surprise he is now up 5 lbs to 95 lbs! He did much more hard running this summer/fall than last so perhaps the gain is muscle. Perhaps I have just lost perspect as to me he looks just great.
Of course my concern is not about how he looks but what is best for him in the long run. His racing weight was 83 lbs (which to my uneducated eye seems a bit light for a dog of his dimensions). For those in the know about weight, my question is whether 90 lbs or even lighter is a better number. He is such a big, tall dog I really don't want to burden his joints or feet any more than necessary. He is also extremely active - we cover a lot of miles every day and this heightens my concerns. Hester is 8 years old.
The photos below are his most recent side shots.
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IV fluids can make for some impressive peeing (think the beginning of the first Austin Powers film) but usually it is just for the first few hours afterward. I might report this to the vet.
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I hope he is doing better today. Amazed by the pic of you lifting him like he weighs nothing.
Hester is moving around much better today - thanks everyone for your concern.
I might be mistaken but I think he loves it when I lift him - he makes these happy little grunting noises. When I look at the photos of me lifting him, I am always struck by how relaxed he is - like he is ready to doze off. Never any squirming, he just goes limp and trusts me. Such a good boy.
As for the lifting, I don't find it too bad when I am warmed up, but first thing in the morning is when I have to be careful with the ole back. That photo above was taken at the base of a small cliff that I had to carry him up - near the top my foot got stuck in a crack in the rocks and I to sort of heave him to the top before I toppled.
This was the next photo in the series:
And this is after I heaved him and got my foot unstuck - fortunately I had a helper to grab him:
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Good news!
Every Greyhound adoption contract should explain how to determine whether or not your Grey can tolerate being crated.
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The vet didn't think x-rays were needed. Her conclusions were the same as mine. Metacam and Robaxin advised.
The big fellow is an excellent mover when he gets going but his body shows the years of racing. He is completely assymetrical, he certainly has his aches an pains.
He was very brave at the vet, but he did get stuck on the scale. There was a wall to his left side and because he can only turn to the left with his crooked neck he had no escape. I had to lift his front end and point him into the middle of the room. We did a little walk and he did all his business so were are good for a few hours.They even have a loading dock there - I back up my SUV and Hester can walk right out when we arrive and then walk back in when we are done.
The chiropractor is a fully certified human chiro who at some point switched to vetrinary. She also does horses and has a stellar reputation. I don't think I will take Hester until he is pain free.
Dogs On The Couch
in Training and Behavior discussion
Posted · Edited by KickReturn
Hester wouldn't think of climbing onto any of the furniture in our home (although one of my sons beds is used for the mid-day nap). A couch lover would be in heaven as there are many nice options for a snuggly Grey. Most of them are never used by man or beast. But the big fella would consider it rude to sleep somewhere that migh belong to daddy so no go. However his rules (and they are his, all rules are his) do not apply in other peoples homes.
This photo was snapped during a visit to his girlie friends place. To my knowledge it is Hester's only couch experience. Apparently there were no beds available at the moment so he went for it very much to the surprise of the humans present who are familiar with is fastidious manners. (That's a full size love seat. He's a real big boy!)