krissy
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Posts posted by krissy
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Summit is just like your kids. He was trained but never raced. For whatever reason though he never made it up to Canada for adoption until 3. Then he was adopted for 2.5 years by a lovely older couple so I have no idea what he was really like then. We got him at 5.5 (about 18 months ago now... he's coming up to his 7th birthday). He is calm and well behaved. He is not always great with non-greyhounds (but only certain dogs, sometimes predictable and sometimes completely random)... but I'm not sure I'd chalk that up to "less socialization" compared to a dog that raced a lot since most racing greyhounds aren't routinely socialized with non-greyhounds. He is much older than your guys, but if the pattern holds I'd say they'll mellow out just like him with age.
He is fed twice a day. 1 cup in the AM and 2 cups in the PM. Mixture of J/D, T/D, and Iams (either lamb and rice or healthy active... the red and green bags). I sometimes substitute raw for a meal here and there. I give him turkey necks. Usually on the weekend or another day when I'm home and almost always in the AM. If I were to feed him once a day I would be cleaning up puke every day. If he has an empty stomach he vomits. So if I have to feed him earlier than 6 PM (for example if we are going out for the evening and leaving before his dinner time) I often give him a snack when we come back so he doesn't puke in the middle of the night.
I'm not sure there's such a thing as "too much walking". I had a foster pup a few years back. He was a shepX and was 7 weeks old when I got him. I walked him almost 3 hours a day. I'd take him for an hour in the morning before going to work, then I'd come home at lunch to feed him and take him for a 20-30 minute walk before I had to get back to work, and then in the evening I took him with my friend's two adult dogs for a 2 hour walk. When he went in for his first set of vaccines I asked if I was walking him too much. Obviously I was concerned about causing him some sort of permanent injury/damage, but basically if the puppy/dog is keeping up with no problems then don't worry about it. This pup never had any trouble with 3 hours of exercise. He loved it. By the end of the long evening walk he'd be pretty pooped... which is exactly what you want for a puppy or other young dog. Remember, a tired dog is a good dog.
I too won't touch the sitting comment... save this....
oh, and this
Oh, and just to give you a bit of a laugh/sympathy... I was at the pet store with Summit last year. We were at the check out. This guy behind us in line started talking to us. He said that he had shown AKC (or I guess here it's CKC) greyhounds for 20 years, yadda yadda yadda. I told him Summit was a retired racer, yadda yadda yadda. Then he asks me what is wrong with Summit because he has so little hair. I tell him that that's normal and that a lot (if not the majority) of retired racers are pretty bald, especially in the bum and tummy. He says that that's absolutely no true and he should know because he's been working with greyhounds for 20+ years and that there must be something wrong with him... I should take him to the vet.
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I posted this article on my facebook awhile back. It's written by a vet explaining why vet fees are the way they are. It may be little consolation, but I'm graduating school with a TONNE of debt, and while I'm not complaining about my starting salary... let's just say I'm still stressed about paying my bills. So at least know that we're not charging you an arm and a leg to make ourselves a lot of money. My boss' house is nice, but it's no mansion.
But so does everybody else have Bills to Pay.
I'm not saying it's good. It still sucks as a pet owner. Even paying just cost for my vet bills for the dog at the vet I volunteered and worked for (for 4 years) I was still looking at bills over $100. And that's no exam fee, cost of bloodwork, cost of medication. So I completely sympathize. I was just trying to point out that your bills aren't exorbitant and why they are what they are. Doesn't make it easier, I know. I just thought it might help to know that if we COULD offer our services for less we would. But if we can't make money then we can't keep our doors open, and then that means nowhere for pet owners to go when their pets need help.
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I posted this article on my facebook awhile back. It's written by a vet explaining why vet fees are the way they are. It may be little consolation, but I'm graduating school with a TONNE of debt, and while I'm not complaining about my starting salary... let's just say I'm still stressed about paying my bills. So at least know that we're not charging you an arm and a leg to make ourselves a lot of money. My boss' house is nice, but it's no mansion.
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I have 3 rabbits.
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She hasn't given back the hound as far as I can tell. I noticed nothing derogatory or accusatory in what OP has said about the group. In fact the points out their follow up care. All she has said is that she asked for a dog without certain traits that she feels is incompatible with her living arrangements & beyond the limits of her ability to handle but appears to have ended up with a hound who has those very problems. That is stating the facts as she sees them. There was nothing critical or negative in the tone of her writing in regards to the group that I could perceive.
Accusatory would be if I said you sound quite cavalier about this whole thing. You appear to give the OP absolutely no credit whatsoever for knowing what is within her limits of ability. You seem to work hard to read unpleasantness into everything she has written. If a child gets bitten or another pet injured you will not be the one dealing with the repurcussions. What say we try to show as much respect to the OP as we do the group. Why don't we acknowledge that all the humans involved here are... well, they're humans subject to all the mistakes, miscalculations, worries, concerns, etc, that all humans have. Something somewhere has gone amiss in the OP's adoption & now she is reaching out for help, trying to understand what can or should be done. Right now, you are not helping. Yep, I think that's what accusatory really is. Y'all have a greyt day now.
Completely off topic. But you are officially my hero.
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Here's Summit:
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Good catch! Duhhh on me because I should have thought of this. Indeed, if a dog (or person) is breathing at that rate, they're in trouble.
lol. Well, I am graduating from vet school in like 2 days (just have practical exams on Thursday left).
I guess I'd better know those numbers pretty well. hee hee.I thought that was high too. I still check to make sure Ben and Brooke are breathing every morning
and sometimes it seems to take forever for their chest to rise.OMG. Sometimes I go up to Summit when he's lying down/sleeping and talk to him or even touch him and he doesn't even move his eyes. And my heart stops for 2 seconds and I think "oh my gosh, he's dead" and then he finally takes a breath... or moves an eyeball. lol.
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Everyone has dog behaviour issues that they don't want to deal with, whether because we feel we are not able to adequately address them or because for whatever reason they just aren't issues we want to deal with. It sounds like you tried to be a responsible adopter and let the group know what your limitations were, to avoid this exact scenario of having to return a dog. I don't think they would (and certainly hope they wouldn't) hold that against you. I hope they will applaud you for once again being a responsible owner and for caring about the needs/welfare of everyone involved (the dog, yourself, your cats, your community). There is someone out there willing and able to deal with this dog's issues, and there is a dog out there waiting for you with none of these issues but maybe some other ones that you are able to work on.
Best of luck.Edited for grammar.
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Just took my new foster in for prelimiary bloodwork for neutering and dental. His rate was 60. Vet was amazed at the calmness being just picked up from the farm. The vet said he would be 40 at home at peace! The google says average rate is 60-100
Thanks for the info. I also Googled but after a while, reading so many sites makes my brain spin. I wanted to hear info from someone who had direct info from their vet. Thanks again.
I hope those rates are for pulse not respiration! Normal respiration rate should be under 40 in a dog, typically 20-30. Normal heart rate in a large dog is ~60-100.
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Revolution only has activity against one type of tick (found in the southern States) and is an "aid in the prevention of" another (found here in Southwestern Ontario). In the US however, Revolution has absolutely no label claim for the latter and I don't think vets in the States think it does much against the one tick it is supposedly labelled for.
K9 Advtantix is labelled for all 3 commonly found ticks in the US/Canada. Summit had it when we first got him because I found a couple ticks on him and upon identification found it was a tick from down south, the carrier of Babesia and Ehrlichia. The only "reaction" he had to it was the first dose made him kind of itchy. However other than that I didn't notice any problems with it. I was told that you can put Vitamin E oil on at the same time in order to prevent this type of reaction.
Frontline... we don't have here so I don't know quite as much about it. It's licensed and has worked very well in the past, but apparently recently there have been some reports of possible decreased efficacy. Maybe resistance is coming up. Not sure.
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We've tried all the "wholesome" bagged treats possible. Last week I cooked up some chicken and she still didn't give a hoot. I really don't want to use hotdogs due to the salt/crappy ingredients aspect.
As with people it is not WHAT you eat but the QUANTITY that you eat. Everything in moderation. A hot dog once a week for obedience class will not hurt her. Just like a bag of potato chips every now and again won't hurt you. Obviously eating nothing but hot dogs wouldn't be that great for her, but as a treat it's not a big deal. Personally I think it is more dangerous for a dog to not be able to concentrate outside the home and respond to commands than to eat a hot dog every now and again for training. Summit gets a whole variety of treats for training and hot dogs and pepperettes are definitely on that menu. I can assure you that he's in tip top health, and I don't worry about his behaviour in public or what happens if he slips a lead/pulls a lead out of my hand/slips out a door.
And Ellie might not even be that enticed by hot dogs at class. Some hounds are stressed enough that they aren't interested in their favourite foods at class. Thankfully for me Summit LOVED obedience and agility class. In his first level 2 obedience AND his intro agility class he was the best student. Then we retook level 2 at another facility and he was VERY nervous. I don't blame him. This facility was dark, had lowish ceilings, was kind of echo-y, and the trainer was great but smoked like a fiend so the room always smelled like an ash tray. Summit was definitely much more difficult to keep concentrated and it was hard to always convince him to perform his commands. I certainly didn't blame him and understood why, but at the same time it is important to me that my dog can perform no matter what the environment (and the trainer himself was quite good) so we stuck it out and I'm glad we did.
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As far as I'm concerned there are only 2 things a dog MUST know. As in there are no excuses for any dog to not know it and do it absolutely reliably. Come and stay. Any dog. Greyhound or not. It's such a huge pet peeve of mind that people's dogs know how to sit, down, shake a paw, and roll over, but they don't have a reliable recall or stay. Sitting is probably never going to save your dog's life, although certainly it is important in other ways. I don't care if a dog never has a moment off leash outside a fenced yard... accidents and mistakes happen.
In terms of training, it's not too hard for most dogs. It's just important to not get frustrated, practice often but not for long, and always reward success.
Stay/Wait - For puppies I start training this with their meals. I put the food bowl down in front of them and give them the command to stay. Puppy obviously immediately lunges for the bowl. I block them with a hand and grab the bowl up if I have to. Put the puppy back where it was and repeat. After a couple repetitions the pup should start to catch on and hesitate before lunging. When you have a good hesitation you just have to give the release command before the pup can lunge. You say "okay" and allow the puppy to dive into the food bowl. Over time you extend the amount of time you require the pup to wait. Then you move on to other places and situations, such as the door at walk time. You start adding in distractions. When I add distractions I will come back and reward the dog for not moving but I won't release him yet. So, for example... I ask Summit to down and wait, then I throw his stuffy across the room. If he jumps up I tell him "ah ah", back him up and ask him to down and wait. If he just watches the toy and doesn't break from his down then I say "yes" and give him a treat, then remind him he hasn't been released by repeating the stay command. Then I'll go get his leash and if he doesn't break he gets a treat and a reminder that he's still staying where he is. Eventually I release him with "okay" and give him a big reward. It's important to work in as many situations as possible with as many distractions as possible, working up slowly based on the dog's abilities.
Recall - You can start recall in the house or on walks with a leash. You call the dog and then give a little encouragement with the leash (or in the house by tapping on the floors, patting your knees and otherwise being interesting to the dog). When the dog comes, big celebration and treats. When the dog does this reliably you can go to a longer leash. Repeat until reliable. Take the dog to a small enclosed space (backyard, tennis court, etc.) and call the dog. When he comes he gets a big reward and lots of praise. If he ignores your call then you go over and get him and bring him over to where you were standing... give LOTS of praise and treats even though you had to go get him. Never get mad when your dog ignores your call and always make a huge deal about it when he does finally come. The hardest part of recall training is distractions. Every dog is different about what distractions are the hardest to overcome. For Summit it's when he is running, especially with other dogs. So we worked on that with a long line. I had a post about it on my blog awhile back showing how I worked on this training with him: http://apexagilitygreyhounds.blogspot.ca/2011/10/most-important-lesson.html
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Or take off your own comforter and replace it with one that she is allowed to nest... i.e. her own comforter. When my BF and I moved in together I saved my comforter for when we got a dog. It already had some holes in it so it became the dog blanket and he can nest it to his heart's content.
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I fostered a greyhound and then adopted mine at the beginning of my third year of vet school. If a third year vet student can foster AND THEN adopt a greyhound during school months, any college student can (provided they are dedicated and have done their research of course).
I heard a lot of great things about Team Greyhound when I was in Ohio this summer.
Best of luck.
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Just pointting out that my bridge girl Kate was taking pred AND a low dose aspirin (20mgs) daily- it was prescribed by Dr Couto so, at times the 2 can be given together. I would still run the aspirin suggestion by your vet first though.
Perhaps a neurologist should be seen at this point???
This is true too, we do often given low dose aspirin as an anti-platelet while simultaneously giving prednisone... or in the case of Cushing's dogs we give aspirin for their steroid induced coagulopathy inspite of the fact that they have super high endogenous steroid production.
However yes, I wouldn't give anything without sound medical advice.
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Daisy has a compressed disc in her neck which displays as limping in her right leg (or her least her gait is off if it's not a full-fledged limp). Can't tell you how many times that poor girl was x-rayed before we figured out what was wrong with her.
Talk to vets before giving meds because prednisone may be the med of choice and it CANNOT be given with an NSAID.
Steroids are out of vogue for spinal injuries now anyway. NSAIDs and cage rest are the medical management of choice now (I know a lot of vets haven't switched over yet, but this is what we learn in neurology now). Also, according to Dr. Couto if a greyhound DOES have a stroke it should NOT be given any steroids and should be given low dose aspirin. This of course makes sense because the cause of the stroke would be a blood clot and steroids actually cause hypercoaguability and aspirin is a "blood thinner" (inhibits platelets and therefore clotting). Given that steroids are out of vogue for spinal injuries anyway, my inclination would be to give an NSAID to cover both possibilities.
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Yay! Don't you just love the feeling you get when the lightbulb goes on? I swear I can literally see it in Summit's eye every time it happens. It makes me all warm and fuzzy and proud inside. I think this is what it feels like to be a parent, but it's as close as I ever intend to get to THAT particular feeling.
Congrats again!
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In the first 8 months that we had Summit I was the only person he would listen to. But it makes sense. I am his primary care taker. I walk him 3 times a day. I feed him twice a day. I work on his training. Why WOULD he listen to my boyfriend who rarely does anything other than pet him and play with him? In fact, one time at obedience class we had a substitute trainer (our regular trainer was out of town so she had one of her other trainers take the class for her that night) who I don't think really respected greyhounds as being a capable obedience breed. She used each dog once to demonstrate each exercise. She borrowed Summit for one. She needed him to sit first before she could show what we were doing. She asked him 3 times and he just stood there staring at her. So she returned him to me suggesting that I needed to work on his sit command. I said, "He sits for me" looked at him and said "Summit, sit". Boom. Butt hit the floor. Now he'll sit for BF and for friends/family, but up to about a year after adoption... good luck. And at this point he's really only interested in doing what the BF says if I'm not somewhere else and if he has food in his hand.
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I've always heard 7, but Summit is turning 7 in May and there's no way he looks or acts like a senior. He's getting a little older for sure and I do give him joint supplements etc, but I'll be giving those to the youngster we adopt in the summer too. Large, active dogs should all have preventitives for healthy joints in my opinion. I think 9 or 10 is what I really consider a "senior". To me, calling a dog a senior at 7 is like calling a human a senior at 50.
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I see the baseball bats but where's the dead horse? Oh... there it is.
I think this topic has been sufficiently beaten. New owners, keep your dogs on leash at least until you get to know them and do some SERIOUS recall training. Everyone else make the decision you are comfortable with and quit criticizing other people for making theirs. End of discussion.
Seriously. You'd think this was grade school.
Actually, I don't think is has been beaten enough yet -- especially since you are trying to leave the message that off-leash is OK.
Many adoption groups have the mantra "not off-leash, not tied up outside, and no flexi-leads" - and, you sign a contract stating that the dog will be on leash or in an enclosed area, at least I did. My word that I gave to the adoption group is good and my dogs are not off-leash.
If you want a dog that you can take off-lead there are plenty of other breeds in rescue shelters - go there.
Actually, no, the message I'm leaving is that everyone has the right to do as they feel fit so long as it is done responsibly. If you choose to accept the risks, assuming it is a reasonable risk and you have done everything in your power to negate it (i.e. off leashing in remote areas and training a proper recall) then that is your business. If you choose not to accept that risk because you are risk averse, cannot or do not want to train a reliable recall, or simply have no interest in ever having a dog off leash, then that too is your perogative. I don't really care what other people do with their dogs so long as it is well thought out and the appropriate measures have been taken.
Personally, I think the blanket statement is ridiculous and it actually encourages people to lose their greyhounds and not be able to get them back. Yes, the dog is always on a leash when being walked so it can't take off that way. But it can accidentally pull a lead out of someone's hand, it can accidentally slip out the door. And then because of this blanket statement, many (if not most) greyhounds have very unreliable recall so the diligent owner is unable to get the dog back. Then you have the "irresponsible" folk who allow their dog off leash. The dog has a reliable recall. Honestly, to me that dog is in a lot less danger of ever ending up on an Amber Alert. It's dogs with no recall whether off leashed or who accidentally escape that end up in the Amber Alert. The blanket statement should not be "don't ever off leash your hound". It should be "train your dog". There are probably 15 dogs at our weekly greyhound runs. Summit is the only one who hears his name and changes direction and comes. A fence is not perfect. Who do you think is going to come back if the hounds find a hole in the fence?
Honestly, this recurring discussion is ridiculous. It HAS been beaten to death. I'm not getting drawn any farther into this discussion because as I said, it's a personal decision and everyone needs to learn to respect the opinions and decisions of other people. I just don't like when people make up what "message" I'm supposedly leaving. The message I am leaving is officially this...
The greatest gift you can give your dog is the ability to reliably respond to two (maybe three) commands: come, stay (and maybe leave it).
That's it. That's all.
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I see the baseball bats but where's the dead horse? Oh... there it is.
I think this topic has been sufficiently beaten. New owners, keep your dogs on leash at least until you get to know them and do some SERIOUS recall training. Everyone else make the decision you are comfortable with and quit criticizing other people for making theirs. End of discussion.
Seriously. You'd think this was grade school.
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Don't know how long you've had Neville, but I wasn't comfortable about Annie Bella's bonding relationship with me or her loyalty to me for about 4 months after I got her.
This. Even though Summit had a recall at about 4-6 months, it was not until I'd had him almost 12 months that his bond with me was strong enough for the recall training to REALLY click. I don't know how else to explain it. We had worked on lots of recall before then and he was pretty reliable. He understood the concept. But I feel like at that time he still had moments of "Meh, I don't really feel like it, maybe I don't have to" whereas now with a better relationship I get more of a feeling like he WANTS to always obey, he wants to always be near me. When we go to greyhound runs he is very independent and likes to wander around on his own away from the pack. But he also likes people and he likes to get petted and rub his muzzle on people. But he always comes to check in with me first. Again, this only really became evident at about 10-12 months and after A LOT of training/bonding.
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I know one was adopted out in Birmingham, but the group cannot give me the adopters names...they have mine, but haven't initiated contact
I found out Summit's brother was adopted out by Allies. I contacted the group and they said they would pass along my info to the family. Never heard back.
Unfortunately, a lot of people aren't interested. -
Summit is almost 7 and if I were to let him he would walk in front of me. I make him walk beside me. On hikes he is free to walk in front, beside, behind, so long as he doesn't cross right in front of me. Then he tries to lag because he's a sniffer and marker of things, but we easily go for 4-6 hour hikes on camping trips. He starts to lag at the end as he gets tired, but for the majority of it he's out in front.
At home he's pretty lazy and spends most of his time laying down, but if he hears my keys or any other sound indicating a walk might be happening he comes running.
I guess I'd better know those numbers pretty well. hee hee.
Best of luck.
On The Back Of The Walking Thread
in Training and Behavior discussion
Posted
Beth has such a pretty sit. I wish Summit had a pretty sit. He certainly can sit (as per posted photos) but he sure ain't pretty about it!