christinepi
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Posts posted by christinepi
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https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-zd-canine-dry
here is the low down on the z diet- it's a real low calorie food. therefore small poops. basically your feeding him chopped liver- hire my 95 year old mom to make it for him! she loves the stuff- no one else can stand it. AND our neighbor's dog rocky lived to nearly 18 on fried kosher liver every day of his life!
when was the last time you had blood work run? there can be other things going on, thyroid if he's have skin and coat issues. at 12 these greyhounds really do age rapidly so i notice w/ my 11.5 year old. his rapid aging started in conjuction to lyme disease.
if it's not thyroid related then just remember you got yourself an old man. what ever keeps him happy food wise, just give it to him. clay does a really good job binding. it's much better than Owelo carrots. supplements can be added, vit b6 amino acid complex or just a good multi-vitamin and let him enjoy.
if it's itching, i found that with my late welsh terrier who really reacted to ground mold a quick hosing down w/ plain water kept the allergens at bay and we had no more hot spots! i never thought about food allergies since it was seasonal- along w/ the start of ragweed and the change in weather here in the east.
I adjusted the amounts of cups upwards so the caloric content would match what he ate before, and still the poops are small and few. Weird. He had bloodwork done just 3-4 weeks ago, and he is on thyroid meds and gets checked every year or more. Maybe I should get it checked more often.
Where do I get clay? Even if that were to firm up the poop, wouldn't the underlying issues still need to be addressed? He's not itching, it's all intestinal. How do I find out whether it's just old age and age related intestinal idiosyncrasies or something in need of addressing? He did get an abdominal ultrasound 4 weeks ago, all normal. It's maddening to figure out what's best for the dog. But one thing I know is I loathe that z/d stuff.
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greysmom said it perfectly. i believe in home cooked diets to figure out what's going on w/ possible sensitiives. i use a rice cooker vs. a crockpot due to the fact that i hate stewed dishes and only own a rice cooker. a good friend's old saluki was 14 and doing poorly. his issues ultimately were due to food allergies. after umpteen visits to vets everywhere and she was contemplating euthanasia ( his reaction was not breathing well and a general decline in weight and spirit) i said, "what do you have to loose. try my rice and i source of protein feeding." it worked, his allergies cleared up and he lived to 18!
for me allergic reactions which are sensitives to food generally involves the food's source of nourishment. i can't go near any of the farmed fish- the plankton and antibiotics they are fed will induce a full fledged reaction, head to toe hives. also, i watch it with chicken. organic or kosher chicken are fine, the rest are fed huge amounts of garbage including antibiotics. now even awful Perdue chicken are selling "no antibiotic" fed chicken. you might try a novel source of protein and one carb at a time and old fashioned vitamins. i know Felix who i now cook for will not go near his food if veggies are pureed and added in.
Just curious how old is your dog now?
He'll be 12 in December.
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There are ways to go through a food sensitivity trial without buying commercial dog food. You just have to be disciplined in cooking and feeding. All you *need* to do is find what he reacts to, then you can switch off to an appropriate commercial diet.
The most common allergies/sensitivities are to corn and chicken, so that's where you begin. Choose a neutral carb source like rice or pasta, peeled white potatoes, sweet potatoes, even bland beans like adzuki beans or chick peas can be used as a food carb (they are all used in commercial food diets as well). You can prep and freeze large quantities to make it easier throughout the work week.
Same with the protein source - choose something other than chicken. Turkey is what eventually worked for Lilly, longterm, but she also tolerates pork and beef. Lots of people have success using mild white fish like Tilapia that isn't too expensive to buy or difficult to cook. Lilly also likes canned solid albacore tuna and usually has a snack of a can every day. I used ground amounts of the meat I chose, and again, prepped a bunch on Sunday.
Veggies can be good if he will eat them as they add vitamins and minerals. Though for the short term most dogs will do OK with a very limited diet.
You can also just dump everything in a crock pot (carb source, protein source, any veggies, water), and cook it overnight into a mushy stew. Portion out meals and freeze.
You need to feed your selections for about 4-6 weeks (unless you see a bad reaction sooner) before movingon the the next combination.
Once you find out what he's reacting to you can then work on finding a commercial food he likes and will eat. Then you watch the ingredients like a hawk for any changes. I've had to switch commercial foods twice now when the companies changed formulas to add in something she can't have.
It's a PITA to get through but you will see a difference when he's getting nutrition fro
Wow, thanks for all that. The amount of time I already spend in my kitchen because of a particular diet I myself need to keep is exorbitant and the idea of spending ever more time in it makes me go dizzy, but I'll do it if the vegetarian/quail combo doesn't work for Tracker. I hear you on companies changing formulas. That's really good to know.
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Not a test that works, apparently. It all seems to be just a rip-off. I fell for it and did a saliva test with Tracker, and according to that he's reactive to 24 out of 24 tested foods, but I'm not sure I believe it, after everything I've read. It would be so nice. Now none of the ingredients he was tested for are in the suggested foods I mentioned above, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't trigger him, too.
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Unfortunately I have no clue where to begin, other that a suggestion Dr Dodds at Hemopet gave me, which is to try a particular high quality brand's two meat-free dehydrated pre-mixes, and add some canned pure quail (nothing else in it other than quail liver and guar gum) from another company. She claims it works for her food sensitive Greyhounds. We'll see. Speaking of treats: I bought the z/d treats, which he likes, but if there's a chance that even the z/d contains ingredients that could trigger him I really don't know what to do.
While we humans think these vet diets are really bad nutrition, at least MY dog begs to differ on the likeability of the stuff. He LOVES all the z/d variations (canned, dry, treats). He'll probably loathe the one I'll try on him next, which is oh so healthy and nutritious...
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Since I've transitioned Tracker over to Hill's z/d diet (food sensitivities) his stools have been fewer and much smaller. Has anyone else had the same experience?
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just look it up on the internet. but an older dog does less, needs less....unless your dog has found and drank from the fountain of youth and acts like a 3 year old pup! they loose muscle mass as they age. it's difficult to keep the weight on. have you tried good short grain asian rice? higher carbs and calories than white rice, most agreeable with the tummy. basically congee is great for everyone/every dog at every age! and it binds and adds calories and is hypoallergenic! can't beat rice, most of the world lives on it! i personally just invested in a zorisho rice cooker- so much better than my old aroma rice cooker.
Tracker never lost weight nor gained weight in any significant way, so I'll leave things as they are. Besides, he may have food sensitivities to something as of yet unknown, so I'll stay on the hydro diet only.
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ah-ha medical issue, that makes total sense. dogs need very little to survive.btw-how old is your gh? size and weight? total caloric consumption(it's on the bag)? just curious.
does my comment about being in good weight and not having a parasite make sense?
He's 3 lbs less than his race track weight (according to Greyhound-Data). He's 73 lbs. He'll be 12 in December. Not sure about his size. I never keep the feed bags, so I don't know about calories.
Yes, your comment makes sense.
For what it's worth, since I've been tapering off the Olewo carrots, his pm poops have been getting softer, bordering runny-ness on the last walk at 9pm. In order to transition him to the hydrolized diet, I have to taper him off everything else. This just will take time and patience. But I feel I should give the possibility of a food sensitivity a chance, even though I'm not so sure this is what's causing the problem. At the same time, it won't hurt him.
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if the dosage of flagyl/ Metronizadoleis too high it will result in the runs.
even though you may feel your dog is the right weight, it might be a matter of 1/3 to 1/2 cup less per day that might keep things in check. i find that as my dogs age they need less food. fiber is most important, but what does it cost you to reduce the intake for a week or two? start w/ 1/4c per meal and why are you feeding 3xs a day? i only do that when a dog is ill. and they are small meals.
also if your dog is still in good weight i tend to think it's not coccidia or colitis. dogs with either drop weight really fast. annie lost 10+ lbs in a month with colitis. felix's littermate had coccidia and it took quite a few rounds of antibiotics to find the one that worked. she too lost a ton a weight during her bout with it.
"It's heartbreaking to see his expectant face when I come back from the chickens and he can't have his daily egg, or no more gullet strips to chew on, just this gross cornstarch/chicken liver stinky stuff all day long..." WOW !!!!!that's a lot of goodies!
unless there is a medical problem i'm mean....kibble and that's it. felix's kidneys are compromised due to lyme and anaplasmosis. so he get wonderful high carb goodies to cut the protein level down since he has chronic pancreatitis and can't eat a normal kidney diet which is high in fat.I reduced his diet by 1/2 cup maybe a year ago or so, but not since, and he's ultimately kept his weight at where it was before I started giving him less, so yes, he needed less then, but not sure why I'd do that now. Anyway, I feed him 3x per day because he's got laryngeal paralysis and started regurgitating his food right after eating 3 times so far, though over the course of 3 weeks. I figured (and the vet concurred) that wetting the food and giving smaller portions may help with the larynx issues. So far, so good.
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Many dogs need less food as they age. All this could also be stress colitis too. And just IMO, you may want to experiment with just not doing anything. He doesn't feel bad, he's not in pain, there's no parasites present, his poop is formed but soft - it might just need some time and watching to see if this is a new normal for him. Intestinal changes are normal in older dogs.
It would also be normal to see about adding in a good amount of fiber - just like an older person needs more fiber - oat bran or beet pulp or even regular metamucil tablets. Add it into his diet slowly.
IF he's having full on diarrhea, or his poops deteriorate, then would be the time for a records review from a specialist to see what they say.
Wise advice. Funny you should add beet pulp--I added Olewo carrots to his diet for exactly that reason and they helped a lot, but never cleared up the softness entirely. He's been on them for two weeks now. I'm actually in the process of slowly weaning him off them to see what this hydro-diet will do on its own.
But I hear you on this just being old age creating changes; maybe his intestines also just take a long time recovering from the effects of the coccidia? I'm hoping very much he'll clear up fully on this new diet and then we can re-introduce a few items. It's heartbreaking to see his expectant face when I come back from the chickens and he can't have his daily egg, or no more gullet strips to chew on, just this gross cornstarch/chicken liver stinky stuff all day long...
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did he clear up at all on any of the antibiotics? pancreatitis usually just results in nasty foul smelling stool and discomfort. you didn't mention any of those. honestly that sounds like a lot of testing, did your vet try another antibiotic for a longer period of time? huh??? second opinion w/ records sounds like it's in order. i would only retest the stool. try another experienced vet rather than a specialist, one never knows.....best of luck.
oh, one thought....cut down on the amount of food. most dogs eat too much(like humans) and less just might be the answer. if they are not running hard, living in a stressful situation dogs need much much less to exist. my whippet went from 4 cups of Proplan Sport 30/20 to 1.5 c. of Proplan Salmon and Rice.(not in one day- over time) Less calories per cup and he wasn't kenneled. His needs changed drastically over a 3 month period. Now it's getting the extra weight off of him.
Initially after diagnosis of coccidia, 3 days of Metronizadole made things worse. Then we switched him to 6 days of Albon. Things mildly improved, but didn't clear up. He's quite a bit better than he has been at its worst, but the soft stool in the pm is still there.
First stool sample: negative. Didn't trust that, did another: Coccidia. After two weeks incl those 6 days of Albon: re-test: negative, incl. a full diarrhea panel that looks for 14 pathogens. he's only been seen by a general vet, not a specialist. But yes, I'll seek a second opinion if this hydrolized protein diet doesn't clear up things.
He's at a great weight, never put on any, so I'm not sure why he should be eating less?
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He gets fed the same stuff 3 times a day... and he doesn't exercise any longer, he just doesn't have the energy; he just putters. He is on Fortiflora and has been for 4 weeks. This is all bizarre. I'm pondering a second opinion, but he's already had blood samples, urine samples, stool samples, abdominal ultrasounds taken and all returned normal, so I'm worried a second opinion would just subject him to more testing and being away from home (the specialists are 45 minutes away), which he now HATES (he's going on 12). But I'll go, if things don't get better on this hypoallergenic diet.
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Apparently Tracker has some kind of food sensitivities. He's been having mild diarrhea for over 4 weeks now. An abdominal ultrasound came back negative (save some slight thickening in the cecum and proximal colon wall, as well as the urinary bladder wall); he was initially diagnosed with coccidia and treated with Albon, which cleared up the parasite. No fever, vomiting, and the vet says he feels totally normal. But his diarrhea continues. What strikes me as so odd, but what do I know, is that his stool 99% of the time is perfectly firm in the morning; any poop after, say, 2 pm turns soft. Not runny, but soft, and occasionally sort of soupy. Is this morning firmness vs afternoon/evening softness indicative of anything in particular? If he indeed had a food sensitivity, wouldn't he always be soft, not just in the afternoon? Or is this just Tracker's "personal style" of dealing with food sensitivity?
We put him on a hypoallergenic kibble two days ago to see what that'll do. I'm hoping that it'll clear the soft stool up.
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Forgot to mention I switched to feeding him 3x/day, breaking the portions into thirds. He gets 2/3 kibble (soaked) and 1/3 wet.
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Not right after exercise. Just resting. I fed him twice a day and it was always half kibble, half wet. Then he recently refused the wet so I gave him only kibble and maybe that is the problem? Yesterday I started soaking the kibble and adding some wet food again. So far so good.
I have this hunch this is connected to his laryngeal paralysis. I googled that and regurgitation, and that's a common symptom. He's had LP for over a year now. It's become a tiny bit more prominent lately in terms of his breathing getting a bit louder, so maybe the regurgitation is also a sign of things slowly worsening.
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Tracker's now regurgitated right after his meals on three different occasions during a 2.5 to 3 week span. He also has diarrhea issues which is why he got an ultrasound yesterday, and everything, incl. the stomach, looks normal. He has had laryngeal paralysis for over a year that seems to be getting worse only very very slowly. When his vet felt him up thoroughly ca one week or ten days ago she felt nothing worrisome in his throat area. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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Officially 5 days, so 5 times at 7ml, and there was some left in the bottle which amounted to another 5ml on the 6th day. Maybe this was too short?
As of today, for the first time, his morning stools were as runny as the afternoon ones. I'm quite worried.
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Tracker has had loose stool in the afternoon and evening for the last three weeks or so. Morning stools are pretty well formed. A stool test revealed coccidia; before the vet got the results, they started him on metronidazole which seemed to make things runnier in the afternoon/eve. After three days, the results came in and the vet put him on Albon. The stool started firming up some, but not completely. He had the last dose yesterday at 5pm, and 24 hours later, his stool is back to runny. I'm at a loss. The vet suggested an abdominal ultrasound, which seems to make sense. But I just don't understand why he wouldn't respond to the drug appropriate for his parasite--it would seem strange that there's something else going on at the exact same time, but who knows. Has anyone had a similar experience with Albon or some other drug not helping with a parasite?
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Tracker's been on 60mg of Galliprant for a year or so and now the vet suggested to give him Gabapentin, since he's still quite stiff. She said depending on how he does on it, I can reduce or stop the Galliprant since both drugs together can be taxing on the kidney. We'll see how it goes. My question is this: since Gabapentin is an NSAID, and can be good for inflammation, would it be a good thing to just continue to keep him on a lower dose, like 30mg, together with the Gabapentin?
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That's very helpful, thanks.
I started him on twice 100mg per day. It seems it's a see-how-it-goes kind of approach, since nobody can say exactly what an individual dog might need? I'll stay on the 2x/100mg for 2-3 days. If there's no change, should I up it, say, by 100mg every few days (or more slowly)? Should I go to 3 times a day in a few days? I just don't want to give him too much... the vet is clearly struggling also to give me clear instructions. It may not be possible, maybe?
How do people give pills every 6 hours? How does that work at night? I'm in bed trying to sleep from 9:15pm until 6:30am...
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The dosing range is very wide, so a lot of the amount depends in the purpose. Most will start out low at @100mg twice a day due to some dogs having trouble with sedation until they become acclimated to the drug, which can take a couple days. But amounts can go as high as 300mg (or more) every 6 hours for extreme pain, even for 73 lb girls.
Dr Couto recommends dosing every 6 to 8 hours instead of the suggested twice a day as greyhounds metabolize this drug faster than other breeds. You don't want to have a big dip in pain relief at the end of every dosing period so dosing may need to be adjusted - either more mgs or closer together - once you have her on it.
That's very helpful, thanks.
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Next question, and I will ask the vet this question, too: what's a safe amount of gabapentin for a 73 lb dog?
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Yeah, that all doesn't sound very good, does it.
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I came across that very dermatologist yesterday, from Nutriscan's website:
One veterinary dermatologist performed a double-blinded study at no charge, but then revealed afterwards that the samples included human saliva, street water, and vodka along with some healthy and suspected food intolerant dog salivas. These non-saliva samples interfered with the pH of the 47-sample immunoassay plate as well as results for the other clinical client samples on the plate. This colleague, without our knowledge, then stated that Nutriscan testing did not work and apparently also informed the other members of the veterinary dermatology board (ACVD). Once we explained how this trial of “fake” saliva ruined the assay results, this fact was acknowledged but apparently has never been explained to other ACVD members, clinical veterinarians and clients interested in this testing.
That's from this page: http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife/dog-and-cat-nutriscan/results.html
Of course, all of this could have been made up. I'm not at all wed to Nutriscan, but the alternative to find out about food sensitivities seems incredibly SLOW (several months) and not necessarily all that cheap either, depending. So a simple 2 minute rope-chew-test sounds very tempting.
It doesn't seem anyone has ever done the test? With good or bad results?
Z/d Diet/elimination Issues?
in Food and dietary discussion
Posted
Even if his stool consistency is deteriorating? It's sometimes greenish now, and feels like goo, or is very very soft...
"Reliable" being the key word. I mostly trust this vet who put him on the z/d diet, but not completely. Another vet (whom I don't know personally) claims that there are still regular proteins (non-hydrolized ones) in the z/d diet because otherwise there'd be no nutrition at all. So what's the point of this diet then? This is so confusing. I just know that things aren't improving, rather getting worse.
He's been on z/d 100% only for 4 days after the transition of about a week. So am I overreacting, maybe? He also had a bout of coccidiosis 5 weeks ago which was treated with Albon, but things never fully cleared up, even though a second stool test came back negative. I'm going to drop off another sample tomorrow.