KF_in_Georgia
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Posts posted by KF_in_Georgia
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I have some of the same concerns. Q broke his hock in January and had surgery then. His "healed" hock is lumpy and is not straight across the bottom. (He doesn't sit, doesn't "sphinx," doesn't do anything that would put his hock flat against the ground.) He limps, he doesn't support his weight on that foot or leg, and if he runs, that foot doesn't hit the ground.
All of that is fine with me, as long as he's not in pain. He doesn't yelp. He gets up and follows me from room to room. He doesn't get into the car on his own, and I don't know if it's because pushing off with that foot would be painful. I've tried tossing treats. He doesn't hop in to get them. I've tried a footstool: he puts his front feet on the stool and stands there, waiting for a miracle. I have a hammock on the back seat, which is great when we're moving, but it means he can't step onto the floorboard to get in the car; it's a longer distance from the ground to the back seat. I'm probably going to have to invest in a ramp because boosting his 65 pounds is killing me. (65 pounds is about 5-6 pounds lighter than he normally raced, and is 10 pounds lighter than he was when he crashed in January. I'm betting he was hurt in October and should have been retired then.)
I'm going to try to find an orthopedic specialist here for a consultation. I have a CD with his x-rays from Florida and from SEGA's vet up here. I need someone to assess whether everything in that hock is still in the right place, or has it shifted. (Was the crooked hock the best they could do with the break? Or has something gone wrong since then?) And I want info about whether the vet thinks he's in pain.
In the meantime, he's a sweet, shy 3-year-old. We're battling hook worms (he's much better thanks to meds from the vet and food grade diatomaceous earth). He spends meet and greets lying on his bed, accepting petting from adults and kids. If a noise startles him, he doesn't recover well (drop a plate on the floor and you'll have to peel him off the ceiling), so he isn't likely to be a therapy dog, but that's fine. -
Blood work on dogs who've eaten can be influenced by fat droplets--lipemia. This can interfere with some tests. I'd never fasted my girl for blood work until the vet asked for it on her latest lab work because she had some iffy numbers on the previous test. (Her fasted test was fine.) I'll fast before blood work from now on just so I don't wind up having to repeat tests because of dubious numbers. http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/preparing-your-pet-for-a-blood-test/274
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For anesthesia (as on a dental): No food or water after midnight (and then we drop off the dog by 8am).
For blood draws for lab work: No food after midnight, but all the water they want.
I always schedule first-thing-in-the-morning blood draws to go with first-thing-in-the-morning urine samples.
ETA: Differing instructions from vets might depend on whether they need to pull blood for pre-surgical lab work as well as time-of-day for the surgery. If they won't get to the dentals until 2 or 3 in the afternoon, they may have different rules than for the early-morning patients. (My vet does tricky stuff early, routine stuff late.)
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I'd ask for a vet's recommendation. Some simple things--like aspirin--have such a long washout period that giving them to a dog means waiting days before the vet can give a more effective med if it's needed..
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At least a couple of weeks between vaccines. If he gets them all at once and then gets sick, which vaccine caused the problem?
My guys get bordatella oral vaccines twice a year, and I don't mind doubling that vaccine with one set of injections. But I don't do DHLPP and rabies together. (And my guys are on the 3-year rabies shot.)
Make certain you're not late on the 3-year shot. In some places, you can't get a 3-year shot if you let the previous shot expire.
Also, just as a precaution: don't get the last appointment of the day. Leave enough time that you can sit in the waiting room for 30 minutes or so afterward, just in case he has a reaction. -
There are appetite stimulants that are effective. Talk to your vet.
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I'm so sorry you've lost that handsome boy.
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I'm sorry it wasn't better news.
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I do understand about hoping your vet didn't overlook something. I don't know if vets get used to seeing some problems and thus don't question them if they turn up in an out-of-the-usual situation or a different breed or something like that. I know some elderly greyhounds in this area. I don't know if they all have vision issues that owners and vets haven't spotted or if there's more vision trouble out there than I'm aware of. The veterinary opthamologist didn't indicate she thought Silver's vision was normal or better or worse than normal. She didn't say anything like "Her vision is better than most greyhounds her age" or anything useful like that. And she's seen Silver for two consecutive years and didn't indicate that things are noticeably different this year compared to last. (But this was Silver's last complimentary eye exam; she's retiring this year as a service dog.)
For me, I think that if "normal" is "normally good," I'm willing to take the vet's word for it. But if "normal" is "not-so-good," I'd want a second opinion.
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How old is Zuri? I ask because I think it's not "normal" for a dog to face significant vision loss just because of age. If it were, wouldn't we all have nearly-blind seniors?
I think I'd like a specialist's opinion just to be sure there wasn't anything to do. Doggles for outside in the sun might be helpful or some sort of dietary supplement or eye drops--something that would help without breaking the bank.
Silver, 11 years old tomorrow, had an eye exam last week. (It was complimentary because she's a service dog, so I can't guess at normal price.) The vet said her eyes looked good for her age, but said she's probably starting to have some issues with depth perception.
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Keep us informed, and come ask questions if you need to after you've seen the vet.
We'll be keeping you and Lizzie in our thoughts.
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Try a harness instead of leashing him by the collar when you walk him. If his dishes aren't raised, try elevating them at least a little, so he doesn't have to stretch as far.
Robaxin (methocarbamol--a muscle relaxer) was the most useful for my boy when there was a flare-up. Gabapentin was most everyday-useful over the long haul.
When the neck hurts, a dog might start walking "funny" to keep from ouching the neck further; that can produce a limp.
Has your boy been whiny when trying to stand up or lie down? That was the warning sign for me that the neck/shoulder area was being a problem. He also later developed trouble lower down his back--just about at the hip area.
Sometimes a chiropractor can help, but I'd insist on spinal x-rays before letting a chiropractor work on your boy's back. The first time we did it with Sam, it helped for a couple of months. The second time was horribly painful for Sam and he was in pain again in less than two weeks. From there on, we just concentrated on the muscle relaxer, tramadol, and gabapentin. (Sam had stomach troubles with nsaids.) I think Sam was 10 or 11 when his problems started; I lost him at 13. He spent most of his final years on the meds, but seemed comfortable and contented on them until the very end.
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Look into Bravecto, an oral med (prescription) that you give once every 3 months. Other greyhounds have used it successfully. No scent, no greasy residue.
I got my vet to write the script for 1 dose, plus refills, for each dog. That way, I could order one dose, test it out, make sure no one got sick (my girl has trouble with the flavoring in some pet meds), and not wind up with meds I couldn't continue to use on my dog. The dogs just got their first doses yesterday, and no one's had any problem. (The girl usually has diarrhea in the first 12 hours after a med like Heartgard Plus.)
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Tigger's wasn't violent (they'd already given him a mild sedative so they could x-ray), but it took half-again as much of the second med to stop his heart. And then there were some muscle contractions in his chest that made it look as if his heart was still beating. And I know this vet is good and gets far too much practice. (She's a vet at the ER, and she put Jacey to sleep five years ago.)
I think there can just be idiosyncratic reactions in some dogs and unless the vet has had to give the dog the same med previously, there's no way to predict it.
But I'll be watching for posts here from some of Greytalk's vet/med folks...
______________________I'm sorry Brendan's passing wasn't peaceful. My Oreo threw a blood clot during surgery to repair a broken bone, and when the vet called to tell me, his staff was doing CPR on her. I heard awful noises in the background--I don't know if it was related to the CPR or not--but those sounds have stayed with me for 10 years. I think I screamed at him to let her go, and he had to repeat the question because he needed a witness to hear that I was telling him to stop, and all I wanted was an end to those sounds. Everything about the last 24 hours of Oreo's life was a nightmare.
I hate to tell you, but you won't forget this. It'll be less sharp in your mind after a while, but you'll remember. Go ahead and learn what you need to know now, in case there really is something you can have done differently in the future. But don't beat yourself up over this: you did everything Brendan needed you to do--including being there for him at the end. -
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At least have something on-hand if you discover he's in too much discomfort to sleep. Maybe let him tough it out if that seems sensible during the day, but let him (and you) get a good night's sleep every night.
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Ask about methocarbamol (Robaxin). It's a muscle relaxer, and it should just make her more comfortable in general. It might well make her more wobbly (wobblier?) the first day or so, but she should adjust quickly. Just watch her on stairs and stuff those first couple of days.
It's a people-med, so if your vet will write a prescription, you can shop around for a good price.
(And if you go with gabapentin, that's also a people-med available at local pharmacies.)
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My boy Sam was 13. Not incontinent. Wobbly on his feet, ate his dinner on his bed in the living room because he couldn't stand long. Got 3 or 4 meals a day so we could fit in all the pain meds (methocarbamol, metronidazole, gabapentin, tramadol). He had difficulty standing when he'd been lying down, but didn't object to being helped. Occasionally did a Bambi-split and couldn't get back up, and I dreaded the prospect that that might happen when I wasn't home. We had one semi-useful chiropractic visit; a second visit was massively painful and gave relief for less than a week, so we stopped. Also tried various shots on occasion--steroids, whatever.
Sam never would have given up. For me, it came down to pain control. He had a bad night where he panted all night. Neither one of us slept that night. He was maxed out on his pain meds and it still hurt--not enough that he whimpered or cried out or got snappish, but enough to keep him awake all night.
He might have had a better day--maybe been distracted from the pain for a while. Or the pain meds might have been more effective another day. But if there'd been a better day, there'd have been a worse one, too. I couldn't see making him go through that just because neither one of us was ready for him to go. So after his bad night, we went to his vet. Stopped at McDonald's first and got him sausage, egg, and cheese biscuits. (I didn't normally give him sausage, fearing stomach distress.) The vet agreed it was time. Sam's breath was starting to smell ammonia-like, and the vet thinks his kidneys were packing it in on top of everything else. So we eased him on his way, and his vet and I cried.
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Perhaps try keeping a calendar for him. Mark whether it's good poo or soft morning and night. And also record what else's he's having, whether he was outside unsupervised (I have it on good authority that rabbit poo is a delicacy), and what meds he's getting. (Include his heartworm meds, vitamins, everything.)
I had a boy we put on a very small maintenance dose of metronidazole after his poo diary one summer revealed that we'd give the prescribed metronidazole like clockwork, finish a round, see good poos for four days, and then face diarrhea all over again. Treat him again; four good days; disaster. When I showed the vet the calendar, we put him on the maintenance dose (I think it was half a pill every other day), and the diarrhea stopped and didn't come back.
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And about the carrots: we've started them here because the girl has dry skin.We're going on three weeks now, and she adores them--more excited about dinner with carrots than about any other meal. Her poo normally was okay, but now it's solid, well-formed, and pretty much perfect. Orange, but perfect.
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If you need make-shift cavaletti poles, try a ladder laid flat on the ground, and let him walk the length of the ladder, stepping over each rung.
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I lost my Tigger Friday night. He raced as Flying Clemenza, son of Flying Penske, and he has none of the named dogs in his ancestry up either line of his pedigree.
He was 8 years old. Tuesday morning he woke me to the GSOD when he got his foot tangled in his Slumber Ball. At the vet on Tuesday morning, the vet pronounced it a sprained knee. I asked for x-rays. She agreed, they took one, and she came back and reported, "Just as I thought. A sprain. No sign of a break."
And that's when I failed to do something I should have done. I should have specifically asked, "And you checked for cancer, too, right?"
This vet wasn't Tigger's regular vet, and I'm betting she wasn't even thinking about osteo in long-boned dogs. My regular vet wasn't due in until late afternoon, and I didn't want Tigger to wait in pain for 6 hours before he was seen. Figuring his visit wasn't going to require a knowledgeable greyhound vet--no issues of lab numbers that are right for some breeds but wrong for greyhounds--I didn't wait for Tigger's regular vet--which is fine--but I didn't specifically wave the cancer flag in the face of the substitute vet...and I should have. The vet found what she expected on the x-ray, and I didn't make sure she looked for something more.She prescribed rimadyl and tramadol--fine for a sprain but inadequate for osteo--and I took Tigger home. He was better Tuesday night, Wednesday, and Thursday. Friday, he yelped again, but I thought he'd stumbled on a bed again (he never did it while I was watching him), and I jokingly threatened to make him sleep on the bare floor. Friday night, he fell--three feet from the nearest bed--and couldn't get his leg under himself to stand back up. I picked him up, saw that it was 2 minutes to closing time at my vet's, and just took him to the ER. The vet at the ER knows greyhounds. (In fact, she was Jacey's ER vet when I lost her to immune mediated thrombocytopenia in 2011.) They did x-rays right away. She was able to get a second opinion from another vet right on the spot, but it really wasn't necessary. The osteo showed its typical moth-eaten bone look just above his knee. The vet said, "We can give him stronger pain killers than tramadol, but I can't estimate how long he'll have before the bone breaks." I said, "Oh hell no. That's not going to happen. He's already in pain and falling down. I'm not going to risk that happening to him some time when he's home alone, just because I'm not ready to let him go. I'll never be ready to let him go."
So I said goodbye to him that night. They'd sedated him a little for the x-rays, so when they brought him to me, he was ready to lie down and nap on the blanket. I sat with him, kissed him, told him he was a good boy, and just stayed until he was gone. He had horrible separation anxiety (for anyone, not just for me), but he had people with him the whole time he was at the ER and he wasn't scared while he was there. He just laid down to take a nap, and slept his pain away.
My first greyhound, Oreo, was the first dog I ever owned. I'd had her 4 years when she broke her humerus in my living room, and I had to drive my screaming dog to the ER. The x-ray didn't show cancer, so the recommendation was to implant a pin to stabilize the bone. They didn't want me to see her that night--or the next morning--for fear the visit would agitate her. Then she threw a blood clot in surgery and died, and I never got to see her. For all she knew, I took her to the ER, handed her over to total strangers, and walked out without a second glance. That was 10 years ago, and I've never gotten over that. I still cry quicker for Oreo's end than for any of the other dogs I've lost. And that includes Tigger, because I know how much worse things could have gone Friday night. I miss Tigger--my excellent R.E.A.D. and therapy dog, the meet-and-greet schmoozer who'd do anything for a treat--but I'm at peace with his ending.
So learn from my experience. Yes, greyhound owners are paranoid about cancer (justifiably so). But don't assume all vets are as paranoid as you. If the vet had gotten the diagnosis right, Tigger would have been spared three uncomfortable days and a night that was worse than it needed to be (even if it was better than it could have been).
(I've assumed that Oreo's leg broke from osteo that just wasn't visible on her x-rays. So the blood clot that killed her probably spared her from weeks of suffering from a break that was never going to heel before osteo reared its ugly head. But Oreo was a bounce with unreadable tattoos, so I've never known her racing name or her pedigree.) -
My boy Tigger (formerly Flying Clemenza), meet-and-greeter and therapy dog extraordinaire.
5 April 2007 - 18 March 2016.
Osteo.
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I'm so sorry.
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Also consider that an ear might get pinched a bit when donning or doffing a snug martingale, especially if she's turned her head the wrong way. Or if she ever wears a muzzle, and she worked to get it off and pinched her ear.
Chase Acting Weird
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Try to video him during one of his spells for the vet to see. It's possible there's something about his behavior that isn't significant for you but will mean something to the vet if she can see it.
For his weight, you might see if he'll tolerate an entire extra meal--maybe something before bedtime.