greyhoundparty
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Posts posted by greyhoundparty
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9 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:
Gives a new meaning to "frito feet."
So true!! Good one
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7 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:
Thank you. We see the vet later this month, so we'll see what he says.
Our corn kids are just trying to help feed the family with their constant grain production
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On 5/19/2017 at 1:37 PM, krissy said:
Sorry, I was working yesterday and then I had an ultimate game in the evening and got home really late.
Here's the unfortunate reality for sighthounds. They're more sensitive to almost all drugs compared to other breeds, and pain control is necessary with surgical procedures. And further to the point of opiates... there aren't many injectable pain medications or sedatives that aren't opiates.
Non-opiate sedatives: Ketamine, Acepromazine, Dexdomitor, Diazepam/Midazolam.
Ketamine is a heavy hitter in my experience so I usually only use it on very aggressive, healthy patients. No pain control and HAS to be given with something else to avoid nasty side-effects, usually with Diazepam or Midazolam, otherwise with an opiate.
Acepromazine can be a problem for greyhounds. OSU uses it at very low doses and that seems to be okay usually (0.5 mg total per hound, not mg/kg). No pain control. But frankly, I've never been a huge fan of Ace and I rarely use it on any patient anymore, regardless of breed.
Dexdomitor is a dream, but is generally avoided in senior patients or those with known/suspected heart conditions. I love it. Heavy sedation that I can reverse - patient is out like a light in seconds to minutes and then awake again within minutes of getting the antidote. No pain control.
Diazepam/Midazolam provides only very mild sedation. We typically combine it with an opiate to use for elderly or debilitated patients. No pain control.
Non-opidate pain killers (injectable): NSAIDs
NSAIDs have no sedative effect, can't be given to patients with kidney concerns or GI concerns or those that are dehydrated or debilitated.
Opiates: Hydromorphone, Butorphanol, Buprenorphine, Morphine
All of these drugs provide pain control as well as sedation and can be given by any injectable route in most cases, and in some cases can also be given orally.
Butorphanol is the mildest, providing the least pain control and the least sedation. However, it is typically my choice of opiate for sighthounds as it doesn't tend to cause dysphoria. That said though, any dog can have a bad reaction to any drug as evidenced by Macoduck's Allen who had a pretty significant adverse reaction to Butorphanol. Those reactions can't be anticipated.
Anesthetizing greyhounds makes even ME stressed out. It's a no win scenario. If I don't use enough drugs then the dog is painful after surgery... and owners don't tend to like it when their dog is really painful (understandably!). If I use heavy opiates and get better control on pain then the dog is probably going to be dysphoric (panting, anxious, crying, etc), and even if no actual complications (like the temperature spike)... again, owners don't like it when their dogs are dysphoric (understandably!). If I do what I would do with my own dog, then the dog is quite sedate for an extended period of time (but not dysphoric and not painful)... and owners also don't like that. I do my sighthound patients early in the day and then keep them very late before sending home.
When I had Kili spayed I used a huge concoction of drugs. She was sedated with Butorphanol/Dexdomitor. Then once her IV was placed I started a low dose constant rate infusion of Lidocaine/Ketamine/Dexdomitor. I ran this constant rate infusion of these 3 drugs all through surgery and for several hours after. She unfortunately had to be an afternoon surgery, finished around 4:30 PM, so I went home and ate dinner before coming back to get her. I took her home on her triple drip of drugs, and I ran it all evening and for most of the night. It ran out around 2AM. On those drugs she was comfortable and very sedate. I was personally very pleased with this protocol and will probably do the same when I decide to spay Kenna. It controlled pain very well. And because she was sleepy/sedate I didn't have a dysphoric dog crashing around after waking up suddenly. She woke up and then basically went back to sleep (rousable but reluctantly) and then once the infusion stopped it took another few hours to clear all the drugs so she woke up nice and slowly through the night. Problem is, I don't think this is a protocol you can really use on a client greyhound, but gosh it was amazing.
When I did Summit last year at almost 11 years old, I did Butorphanol/Midazolam for his sedation. However, he only had a very small lump to come off and a routine dental cleaning with no extractions... so pain was a minor factor. When he had surgery for his spine a few months later I left it up to the referral centre. I have no idea what they used for the actual anesthesia, but I do know that they had him on a drip of methadone afterwards so he was super sedate for hours after (but not dysphoric). That dog seems to handle his opiates okay which is fortunate.
Greyhounds suck to anesthetize sometimes. I totally agree. However, avoiding necessary care because of the risks of anesthesia is not any better for the dog. Girls that aren't spayed get cancers and life-threatening uterine infections. Boys can get testicular cancer. Bad teeth lead to a host of other health concerns and is incredibly painful. Anesthesia is a risk in ANY breed, and yes it can be even a little scarier for those of us with sighthounds. But trust me, living with a rotten mouth is not something any dog would choose. I know it is difficult and scary, but I would encourage you to continue to perform anesthetic procedures when they are necessary. Do as much as you can at home to avoid needing anesthetic procedures (brush teeth daily, use a water additive, use a dental diet if possible, give dental treats, get lumps checked out early, etc) and do anesthetic procedures earlier than later. A routine dental cleaning is way easier on a hound than one with a bunch of extractions... pain control is a problem as we've already discussed and anesthetic time is very much prolonged by needing to do a lot of work. And finally, use a vet that you are comfortable with. And by comfortable, I mean that if something goes wrong (and it can with any dog or cat or rabbit or human) that your first reaction won't be "I've lost trust in them" but "I know they took the best care of him that they could".
I'm very sorry this happened to you and Adam, and I'm so glad he's doing better.
Old thread but wanted to come here to say wow you really know your stuff! My girl needs a dental with extractions ASAP, she had to be under for another procedure one year ago and did ok but seemed to take 24 hours to seem normal again and wake up fully. She had half open eyes no blinking for HOURS at home recovering and it was scary. Seemed so out of it like not responsive so I did not give the second dose of butorphanol they sent us home with, so glad I didn’t. Im extremely hesitant to have this dental but she has a chunk of molar that broke off so I have little choice. Thank you!
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On 2/8/2021 at 12:49 PM, greysmom said:
Normal vet. BUT she is very familiar with working with greyhounds and their idiosyncrasies.
If your vet isn't totally on board, see if she will refer you to another GP vet who could handle the dental, preferrably someplace close to where you are moving since nearly all vets are booked out months for everything but emergency procedures. Covid protocols have put a wrench in most timing lately.
If she wants to give it a go there are things you can do to minimize the risks.
Make sure you begin giving your dog Amicar (aminocarproic acid) 4-5 days pre procedure and post procedure to help with blood clotting. If you can't find it, a product called tranexamic acid can be a substitute.
Talk with your vet about NOT USING opiates during the surgery, and avoid Tramadol and Fentanyl for post procedure pain relief. An nsaid and codiene sulfate (an opiate but better tolerated than the others) have been a successful combination.
The anesthesia your vet uses will make a difference. She can get proper protocols from MSU. Also, close monitoring before during and after the dental is very important.
If your girl gets anxious at the vet, talk about giving a dose of anti anxiety medication like trazadone prior to leaving the house, to - hopefully - walk into the office and basically into surgery. Keeping stress low from the beginning is key.
You can also search through here for other threads on anesthesia and getting dentals. Good luck.
Is butorphanol an opiate? I feel like my girl had a hard time waking up after anesthesia last year but she cracked a molar this week and will likely need a dental ASAP. Curious which drug caused her to take almost 24 hours to seem normal again so we can avoid it. Thank you!
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21 hours ago, ramonaghan said:
After a couple of weeks of colloidal silver, I think this booger's starting to emerge. There was no border before. What say the experts?
Yep definitely a corn! For my girl, the smaller ones seemed to be deeper and more painful for her than the big ones. It was a constant affliction until the flexor tenotomy, which took me years to work up the courage to do for her. I’m sorry you have a corn baby also.
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20 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:
I’m so sorry your boy had such a scary experience with his dental. I can’t find the anesthesia link I’m looking for but here is one to start linky.
Oh thank you so much! ❤️
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I guess a better question to ask is if anyone has a referral to a doctor or canine dentist in Atlanta area that you liked and trusted.
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Hi all,
My girl is 9 and has terrible teeth. Her brother almost died from a dental several years back (he aspirated during extubation, despite fasting, and was in ICU for a WEEK hanging on for dear life) so I swore I’d never do a dental again.
But I just noticed last night my girl has a piece of molar missing near gum line so it looks like a dental surgery will now be absolutely necessary.
What type of anesthesia for greyhounds are we in agreement on as the safest for this procedure? I am nervous bc of her age and my past experience. Thank you all.
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1 hour ago, ramonaghan said:
Sure, it's $40 total/month ($20 per dog) with 90% reimbursement, a $1000 annual deductible, and no annual limit. They are 4 years old with no pre-existing conditions.
Oh that sounds very reasonable! Thanks for the info.
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25 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:
I don't have Healthy Paws anymore because Pets Best was cheaper for Doolin and Willa, even for better coverage. I still haven't had to use it yet, but Willa has a vet appointment later this month...I'll report back! I will never go without pet insurance after our experience with Sweep. It made our decision-making so much easier during a very stressful time.
That’s great! I’ve never had pet insurance but want to look at getting it for my girl. How much is Pets Best for both of yours, if I may ask? Thanks for the info!
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On 11/7/2022 at 9:44 PM, ramonaghan said:
We got Pets Best for Doolin and Willa. Their pricing was very reasonable and they were highly reviewed (in both online articles and in a recent lengthy thread on this topic among my neighbors on Nextdoor
). Haven't had to use them yet, but I found it very appealing that they will cover routine exams, dentals, and even acupuncture and chiropractic depending on the package you choose.
We had Healthy Paws for Sweep and never had any bad experiences or huge price hikes like others have reported (they quickly reimbursed 80% of her $24k cancer bills this past year), but they were more expensive for less coverage.
I know this thread is old but I wanted to see if you still had the same pet insurance now?
that is a remarkable amount they covered for the C treatments...
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3 hours ago, racindog said:
I have had dogs do that. I never thought anything about it and I am admittedly a mother hen. Also nothing ever came of it. None of the dogs that did it ever had any respiratory issues ever. I think she is most likely just clearing her throat. Wait until you get one that has "drinkers cough." Every time they drink they cough and hack quite a bit. Absolutely normal my board certified vet told me. He said some of them just do that and it is called "drinkers cough." It also never caused any issues whatever to my hound.
Haha yes I’ve seen and heard the drinkers cough! Not to mention the water that is coughed up 🤣
It’s different than that and only precipitated by slight movement after lying still for a while. It’s like an “old dog” hack sound.
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On 2/4/2023 at 10:21 AM, ramonaghan said:
Very interesting. Thank you, friend.
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On 2/1/2023 at 5:57 AM, macoduck said:
Are you feeding her grain free kibble?
Hi sorry I missed your message. I think her current kibble is grain free bc they were out of the regular kind but I do give her bread bits and rice sometimes to supplement. Is grain free bad?
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On 2/2/2023 at 12:39 PM, greysmom said:
The order doesn't matter since you are farther along in the investigative process. It's just another tool in the toolbox.
Ducky's question about grain free food is valid, however the effects of DCM are usually much worse. Reflux is definitely a possibility.
Ok thank you!
Sorry, what is DCM? -
8 hours ago, greysmom said:
It's *probably* nothing. Really. Not every single thing is a problem. Sometimes a cough is just a cough.
But...
In a getting-to-be-a-senior dog, any symptom can be something to to watch. And an intermittent cough was my puppy's only indication of a heart defect, so I have PTSD around hearing one!
To be honest, if it was me, (and I could easily afford it), I would probably do BOTH a chest xray AND schedule an echocardiogram before I would allow my dog to undergo anesthesia for a dental if I had any questions in my mind at all. Both are quick and easy to do without any sedation, and will give you a lot of confidence going forward. And if she does happen to develop any serious issues in the future they will give you a baseline for comparison.
There is also this specific blood test:
It could be your vet has already done this, but if not it's also easy and quick and very accurate in diagnosing heart issues.
Hmmm it almost sounds like the article is suggesting this blood test be the first step action, followed by X-ray and echo if needed. This is such great information! Thank you. 🙏
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8 hours ago, Remolacha said:
I am a little late to the party, but wanted to add Val (black girl dog
) had an intermittent cough, usually just the one cough. She had it when I got her at 7 and was still doing it when I lost her at 14. We never had a cause, but her vet wasn’t worried so I tried not to be either.
Oh, good to know! I would be so grateful to have a hound until age 14! ❤️
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2 hours ago, Johnfar said:
I wonder whether it is Gastric Reflux perhaps caused by a reaction to a certain kind of food or even bacteria from bad teeth and gums?
You know, that is a good theory!
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8 hours ago, greysmom said:
It's *probably* nothing. Really. Not every single thing is a problem. Sometimes a cough is just a cough.
But...
In a getting-to-be-a-senior dog, any symptom can be something to to watch. And an intermittent cough was my puppy's only indication of a heart defect, so I have PTSD around hearing one!
To be honest, if it was me, (and I could easily afford it), I would probably do BOTH a chest xray AND schedule an echocardiogram before I would allow my dog to undergo anesthesia for a dental if I had any questions in my mind at all. Both are quick and easy to do without any sedation, and will give you a lot of confidence going forward. And if she does happen to develop any serious issues in the future they will give you a baseline for comparison.
There is also this specific blood test:
It could be your vet has already done this, but if not it's also easy and quick and very accurate in diagnosing heart issues.
Thank you for your input. I probably will just be on the safe side and do an X-ray and echo. She means THE WORLD to me so I will do everything possible for her. 💗
And thanks for the idea of that blood test, I don’t think that was part of the CBC she had done.
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Just now, ramonaghan said:
Maybe a girl dog affliction! Sweep did it and Willa does too. Those girls get so excited to eat.
Haha!! But it’s weird bc she does the cough only at rest, not for food excitement (although she does LOVE food!)
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Just now, ramonaghan said:
Yep, the gallop is something they hear, not something you feel, so I think you're good if the vet didn't hear it!
Yay!! Wonderful to know, thanks so much. 😁
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1 minute ago, Jerilyn said:
I'm glad Wiki is not the only one. Seems to be a black girl dog affliction.
Siouxsie is very cute. And her hack looks a lot like what Wiki does. And I think if she's got tooth issues that could be responsible for more spit/mucus than normal.
Haha!! I sure hope it is just saliva. That would be very much like her to give me such a scare and worrying only for it to be saliva, but I’ll gladly take it! Fingers crossed 🤞❤️
I was ready to go get chest X-rays for heart and lungs and get the cardiologist involved. Whew.
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Just now, ramonaghan said:
My experience with CHF is limited to cats, but the heartbeat is very distinct (like a gallop) and, at least, with my cat, the coughing spells were more than just one or two coughs at a time, and he had a high resting respiratory rate. You can count her breaths while she's resting if you're really concerned; normal is typically 20–30 breaths per minute.
Kiss themher for me.Oh thank you for the info. 💗Thankfully her respiratory rate seems normal and when I feel her heart beat it does seem to feel like a gallop sometimes to me, but the vet always says her heart sounds good so....
I was so curious if someone would watch this video and say, YES my hound does that too and it is _____.
I saw a little dachshund video online with a similar cough and everyone jumped on saying CHF. Cue GreyMom paranoia!
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16 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:
How long have you noticed your girl doing this? Do you live in a warm climate? What is her name?!
I'm with Jerilyn on this one. My Punkin does the same cough clearing hack then gulp before she's given a treat and sometimes before she gets ready for a meal. Given your pup's unremarkable bloodwork and comprehensive exam/s, I also don't see anything too concerning at this point. Unless it escalates and/or presents with additional symptoms, I would make a note to definitely mention it at her next vet visit. You did a good job capturing the cough on video and without asking for a real appointment you could ask your vet if you can email the video to them for their opinion. Keep an ear open for changes in your pup's bark or whine and if you notice those I would schedule an appt but not on an emergency basis. Hope this helps and please keep us posted.
Thank you! She’s been doing it intermittently for about a year with it increasing in frequency recently, hence my concern that it could be CHF related. Especially since she does it without food/water and at rest. Vet did mention her cough could be cardiac related and said we could book with the cardiologist to check even though she sounded ok with his stethoscope.
Yes, warm climate in the south although it is still cold now.
Her name is Siouxsie and she is the love of my life!!! 🥰
Gives a new meaning to "frito feet."
Kiss 
Cracked tooth...anesthesia question
in Health and Medical discussion
Posted
Thank you so much. Yes I will be taking my girl to a vet dentist vs regular vet for this procedure to keep her as safe as possible.
A 7 year old grey that I board just had a dental with no extraction and he almost died from a reaction to the anesthesia causing him to bleed excessively internally! So I have very few good dental stories personally to give me comfort.