Long haul hookworms

[Time4ANap]

2 hours ago, zimsmom said:

Dropped off another  (I lost count) stool this morning.  Has been on & off Drontal for over a year.  Consistently  on the Advantage.  We shall see.  

Paws crossed. 

[zimsmom]

Ova & parasite & antigen negative!!  Now on Advantage monthly & stool in 3 months.  At least this gives me time to save the $$ for the testing and meds.

[Jerilyn]

41 minutes ago, zimsmom said:

Ova & parasite & antigen negative!!  Now on Advantage monthly & stool in 3 months.  At least this gives me time to save the $$ for the testing and meds.

Woo hoo!  

[Time4ANap]

9 hours ago, zimsmom said:

Ova & parasite & antigen negative!!  Now on Advantage monthly & stool in 3 months.  At least this gives me time to save the $$ for the testing and meds.

[JenniferS]

My Theo has had 3 negative tests (monthly) but I'm confused as to when the tests should be done. We tested 3 weeks post treatment (Advantage Multi + Drontal). I hope we can now switch to just AM, the Drontal made him so sick and he hated it  I need to talk to the vet - she has read Dr. Ng's article and is open to learning more - anything else I should mention to her? I want to keep him clear of course, but would love to get him off the Drontal.

Also, has anyone switched to Simparica Trio after 3 negatives? I am considering this med in place of AM & Frontline. 

[Jerilyn]

5 hours ago, JenniferS said:

My Theo has had 3 negative tests (monthly) but I'm confused as to when the tests should be done. We tested 3 weeks post treatment (Advantage Multi + Drontal). I hope we can now switch to just AM, the Drontal made him so sick and he hated it  I need to talk to the vet - she has read Dr. Ng's article and is open to learning more - anything else I should mention to her? I want to keep him clear of course, but would love to get him off the Drontal.

Also, has anyone switched to Simparica Trio after 3 negatives? I am considering this med in place of AM & Frontline. 

Three negatives is great!  I'd stop the drontal. I don't know anything about Simparica but I see it has moxidectin which seems to be what keeps the hookworms at bay.

[zimsmom]

Jen 3 negatives is great.  Mackenley would have one; stay on AM test a month or so later and positive again.  I agree the Drontal is terrible.  She does not feel well after her dosing.  I only give AM; no frontline.  It seems like duplication to me.  Am I incorrect??

[zimsmom]

Oh now I know.  Frontline adds tick protection.  

[Time4ANap]

On 7/29/2022 at 3:44 AM, JenniferS said:

My Theo has had 3 negative tests (monthly) but I'm confused as to when the tests should be done. We tested 3 weeks post treatment (Advantage Multi + Drontal). I hope we can now switch to just AM, the Drontal made him so sick and he hated it  I need to talk to the vet - she has read Dr. Ng's article and is open to learning more - anything else I should mention to her? I want to keep him clear of course, but would love to get him off the Drontal.

Also, has anyone switched to Simparica Trio after 3 negatives? I am considering this med in place of AM & Frontline. 

How far apart were the 3 negatives? 3 in a row is fantastic as long as there was some amount of time between them. Definitely stop the Drontal Plus at this point. No need to use it with 3 negatives. We haven't tried the Simparica. We switched to Interceptor for the monthly after hooks were gone and never had any more issues with the hooks once each hound was clear, but getting them clear took between 6 months and a year for each hound.

We stuck with Interceptor after it came back on the market, as our experience with the original version of Interceptor was very good, and we never had any dog have much in the way of a reaction to it. LaVida and Petunia both reacted with a day of hyperactivity (for a greyhound) on the day they took the Interceptor, but other than that there was no stomach upset or any other issues with it. 

[cleptogrey]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:28 PM, Time4ANap said:

 

We stuck with Interceptor after it came back on the market, as our experience with the original version of Interceptor was very good, and we never had any dog have much in the way of a reaction to it. LaVida and Petunia both reacted with a day of hyperactivity (for a greyhound) on the day they took the Interceptor, but other than that there was no stomach upset or any other issues with it. 

interceptor(plus) does a great job on hookworms. it's whipworms that are getting to be a real PITA and have joined the club. i just spoke with a vet nurse at Elenaco since Lettuce came back positive whipworm eggs after being on it for 6 months. technically they say it prevents whipworm as well as hook. well, it seems like it kills off the monthly adult whips but leaves the eggs. as long as they are on the interceptor then they will not deal w/ the ill effects of whip(hook, etc). i wonder if this is true for the hooks as well. my dogs who were on interceptor never had positive hook infestation.

 i started doing some research for a generic interceptor plus and came up with this https://www.milbeguard.com/about-milbeguard/.  my vet thinks it's a good alternative and maybe it will help w/ the whip as well. mean while in the middle of the month, i'll worm w/ safeguard, 3 days, 3 week later- repeat, 3 months later repeat. with whip like hook it's impossible to clean up the yard, they are resistant to everything! and i'll give the milbeguard a try. it's 50% cheaper! alllivet has the best price.

[Time4ANap]

5 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

interceptor(plus) does a great job on hookworms. it's whipworms that are getting to be a real PITA and have joined the club. i just spoke with a vet nurse at Elenaco since Lettuce came back positive whipworm eggs after being on it for 6 months. technically they say it prevents whipworm as well as hook. well, it seems like it kills off the monthly adult whips but leaves the eggs. as long as they are on the interceptor then they will not deal w/ the ill effects of whip(hook, etc). i wonder if this is true for the hooks as well. my dogs who were on interceptor never had positive hook infestation.

 i started doing some research for a generic interceptor plus and came up with this https://www.milbeguard.com/about-milbeguard/.  my vet thinks it's a good alternative and maybe it will help w/ the whip as well. mean while in the middle of the month, i'll worm w/ safeguard, 3 days, 3 week later- repeat, 3 months later repeat. with whip like hook it's impossible to clean up the yard, they are resistant to everything! and i'll give the milbeguard a try. it's 50% cheaper! alllivet has the best price.

I think it was whipworms that Rocket picked up when we lived in IL. We were out walking at night and when I used the flashlight to pick up after him, the little buggers were waving at me. Had it not been night time with a flashlight, I'm not sure I would have seen them. At that point, Interceptor was in that period where it was off the market and we were using something else for a monthly. I think we knocked those out with a dose of Drontal Plus at the time. 

[Jerilyn]

Interceptor was my preferred product. Then Wiki had the hooks and she went on Advantage Multi. She got a negative hookworm test and I was out of Advantage but had Interceptor in the house. She had two months of Interceptor then tested positive for hooks again, with eggs and larvae present. Went back to Advantage and now is just antigen positive. I could be wrong, but I think the Interceptor wasn't enough and allowed the hooks to go from hiding larvae to an active infestation.

[Time4ANap]

4 hours ago, Jerilyn said:

Interceptor was my preferred product. Then Wiki had the hooks and she went on Advantage Multi. She got a negative hookworm test and I was out of Advantage but had Interceptor in the house. She had two months of Interceptor then tested positive for hooks again, with eggs and larvae present. Went back to Advantage and now is just antigen positive. I could be wrong, but I think the Interceptor wasn't enough and allowed the hooks to go from hiding larvae to an active infestation.

This could well be the case. Back when we first heard of the Prison Protocol, most of the other products out there were not working to combat the hooks that the hounds were coming off the track with. It may just not be strong enough or may not contain the ingredient that works best to combat those hooks that have come from the farms and tracks with the dogs. Those hooks have grown more resistant to every treatment over time. I'm hoping that now that our hounds are completely negative, Interceptor is enough for anything they may encounter in the wild. (aka the sidewalks of our neighborhood). 

[Rickiesmom]

Moxidectin seems to be what works - it's an ingredient in Advantage Multi but not in Interceptor.

 

[ramonaghan]

Are alien creature belly noises the sound of hookworms dying? (Please say yes!) He's acting fine—super playful this morning, in fact, and already had an excellent poop. But wow, I have never heard these stomach noises from hound nor human before. Gave him a Pepcid just in case.

[Jerilyn]

1 hour ago, ramonaghan said:

Are alien creature belly noises the sound of hookworms dying? (Please say yes!) He's acting fine—super playful this morning, in fact, and already had an excellent poop. But wow, I have never heard these stomach noises from hound nor human before. Gave him a Pepcid just in case.

He probably just needs some biscuits. 

Wiki had horrible belly noises when her hooks were bad. Once they were treated the noises stopped. But random gurgles happen too, Pepcid usually works for those.

[ramonaghan]

Just now, Jerilyn said:

He probably just needs some biscuits. 

Wiki had horrible belly noises when her hooks were bad. Once they were treated the noises stopped. But random gurgles happen too, Pepcid usually works for those.

Okay, thanks! He had his second round of Drontal on the 1st. Recheck at the end of the month.  

[ramonaghan]

No change in Doolin's squirm count. 

They are interested in trying Profender. Doolin would be their guinea pig. I asked the vet if he would do it for his own dog and he said yes. Because Doolin already had the ProHeart shot in May and has had two rounds of Drontal with no change, they're skeptical that any further rounds would do anything. (This is Grassmere, so they know their greyhounds.)

I'm considering it. 99.7% effective is compelling. But a sample size of 17 is not. Decisions, decisions.

[Time4ANap]

21 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

No change in Doolin's squirm count. 

They are interested in trying Profender. Doolin would be their guinea pig. I asked the vet if he would do it for his own dog and he said yes. Because Doolin already had the ProHeart shot in May and has had two rounds of Drontal with no change, they're skeptical that any further rounds would do anything. (This is Grassmere, so they know their greyhounds.)

I'm considering it. 99.7% effective is compelling. But a sample size of 17 is not. Decisions, decisions.

Did Doolin have the alternating dose of Advantage Multi after the dose of Drontal? 

Neither med on their own seems to work well, but in combination with each other (we alternated them on the 1st and 15th of each month,) we eventually got rid of the hooks but it took over 6 months of alternating the meds. We were most likely dealing with hooks that had been in them for a long, long time while they lived on the farm after racing. 

[ramonaghan]

Just now, Time4ANap said:

Did Doolin have the alternating dose of Advantage Multi after the dose of Drontal? 

Neither med on their own seems to work well, but in combination with each other (we alternated them on the 1st and 15th of each month,) we eventually got rid of the hooks but it took over 6 months of alternating the meds. We were most likely dealing with hooks that had been in them for a long, long time while they lived on the farm after racing. 

Moxidectin is the active ingredient in Advantage Multi, the same as what's in the ProHeart injection he got in May. That's why their skepticism. Whomp whomp. 

We could do nothing and he said the hooks should die off in about two years. 

[Time4ANap]

55 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

Moxidectin is the active ingredient in Advantage Multi, the same as what's in the ProHeart injection he got in May. That's why their skepticism. Whomp whomp. 

We could do nothing and he said the hooks should die off in about two years. 

Gotcha. I'm not familiar with the shot so didn't know how it factored in. 

[ramonaghan]

8 minutes ago, Time4ANap said:

Gotcha. I'm not familiar with the shot so didn't know how it factored in. 

I wasn't either! I should have specified that in my original post, but I have mush-brain from analysis paralysis.*

*and possibly from my very cute 5:30AM alarm clock

[LBass]

Doolin and Nate appear to be on the same wake up schedule. Joy! 

[Jerilyn]

13 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

No change in Doolin's squirm count. 

They are interested in trying Profender. Doolin would be their guinea pig. I asked the vet if he would do it for his own dog and he said yes. Because Doolin already had the ProHeart shot in May and has had two rounds of Drontal with no change, they're skeptical that any further rounds would do anything. (This is Grassmere, so they know their greyhounds.)

I'm considering it. 99.7% effective is compelling. But a sample size of 17 is not. Decisions, decisions.

It sounds like they are following the protocol in the paper from UGA.  It’s here, you need to create an account to read it. https://www.cliniciansbrief.com/article/persistent-or-suspected-resistant-hookworm-infections

According to what I remember reading, if they did an actual count of eggs/worms before and after the Moxidectin and there was no change you are dealing with resistant worms (opposed to larval leak which we assume Wiki has because she’ll test antigen positive but there no eggs in her stool) and Profender is the only course of action.

For me personally, it sounded a little scary due to the very small sample size, possible side effects, and the complicated math to calculate the dosage. My vet & I were both glad we didn’t have to go down that path. But, if that’s the only option what are you going to do?

Is Doolin symptomatic? Still having squeaky belly and bad poops?

[ramonaghan]

20 minutes ago, Jerilyn said:

It sounds like they are following the protocol in the paper from UGA.  It’s here, you need to create an account to read it. https://www.cliniciansbrief.com/article/persistent-or-suspected-resistant-hookworm-infections

According to what I remember reading, if they did an actual count of eggs/worms before and after the Moxidectin and there was no change you are dealing with resistant worms (opposed to larval leak which we assume Wiki has because she’ll test antigen positive but there no eggs in her stool) and Profender is the only course of action.

For me personally, it sounded a little scary due to the very small sample size, possible side effects, and the complicated math to calculate the dosage. My vet & I were both glad we didn’t have to go down that path. But, if that’s the only option what are you going to do?

Is Doolin symptomatic? Still having squeaky belly and bad poops?

Yep, that's exactly the article he was looking at when we spoke. We talked for about 30 minutes, and he's been in practice for almost 40 years, so I couldn't trust him more. I'm inclined to go for it. Am I nervous? Absolutely. But yes, Doolin is still squeaky, does that nipping at his sides and butt thing, and has so-so poops. So it seems like the way to go. I am comforted by the fact that it's already approved for use in the EU. I'll keep you all posted!