Kidney Failure and diet - very strict or striking a balance?

[MattB]

I have posted about Daisy (12 1/2) who was diagnosed with reduced kidney function about 4 months ago.

There was discussion about whether it was possible that the propalin had led to her kidney function dropping but the vet suggested that although it (propalin) had potentially had a negative effect on her kidneys she thought they were likely struggling already.

The good news is that they think it is early stage and we immediately switched to a renal diet which initially Daisy enjoyed. Although very sleepy, Daisy is generally doing well, glossy coat, enjoys her 2x walks and has a lot of cuddles.

Our problem now is that we've cycled through ALL of the different renal foods we can find and Daisy is going off them. We are using baked tinned food as a treat which she is most enthusiastic about but this seems to be getting less exciting by the day.

I have been mixing a small amount of 'normal' tinned food in with her renal food which she goes nuts for - sometimes just a little bit and sometimes a bit more if she hasn't eaten much that day. Last night she took a slice of our toddler's pizza off the dinner table and I have never seen her look so happy and that's made me worry that her diet is reducing her quality of life. 

I've read some resources and I still find kidney function quite confusing - I want to do the best by Daisy and part of me feels like stopping her having her usual foods, and treats in particular, isn't fair on her. But on the other hand I don't want her kidney disease to progress unnecessarily quickly - when she was on her previous diet she seemed to be drinking more water so presumably this was her kidneys struggling to cope. 

Maybe I've answered my own question - try to keep her to the renal diet but put in other bits where this will help her to eat enough food.

Do others have experience of this?

 

[macoduck]

My 13 year old little podenco Hada (photo in my siggy) is also in declining kidney health. On the kidney disease scale of 1 to 4, she is nudging 3. The signs that it had worsened were decreasing appetite, lack of energy, increased water intake, and being unable to hold her pee overnight. Urinalysis was normal. Some blood test values were way off.

Last year we gave her Hills K/D kibble and canned. She hated it but ate reluctantly when hungry and had other food mixed in. We settled for just getting her to eat whatever she could. She went from 27 lbs to 22 lbs in less than 4 months.

Last week we started her on prescription Royal Canin Renal Support in the "T" flavor, one of several flavorful choices they have. The change was remarkable. She gulped down her food, has more energy, drinks a normal amount of water daily, and now sleeps through the night without peeing. We will be repeating a test after one month on the Royal Canin.

If you have not yet tried this brand, I encourage you to do so.

https://www.royalcanin.com/us/dogs/products/vet-products/renal-support-a-dry-dog-food

Royal Canin's Renal Support recipes are designed to appeal to the different taste preferences pets can have. The dry recipes are A, F, and S. A is for Aromatic and is formulated to have a stronger scent in a round kibble. F is for Flavorful and is a triangular kibble with enhanced flavor. S is for S avory and i s a square kibble offering a more varied flavor profile. The canned recipes are T, D, and E. T is for Tasty and is a slices in gravy option with multiple flavor profiles. D is for Delectable and is formulated as morsels in gravy, similar to the Renal Support T. E is for Enticing and is a pate texture canned recipe with chicken and pork flavors.

Edited August 4, 2021 by macoduck

[MattB]

8 minutes ago, macoduck said:

My 13 year old little podenco Hada (photo in my siggy) is also in declining kidney health. On the kidney disease scale of 1 to 4, she is nudging 3. The signs that it had worsened were decreasing appetite, lack of energy, increased water intake, and being unable to hold her pee overnight. Urinalysis was normal. Some blood test values were way off.

Last year we gave her Hills K/D kibble and canned. She hated it but ate reluctantly when hungry and had other food mixed in. We settled for just getting her to eat whatever she could. She went from 27 lbs to 22 lbs in less than 4 months.

Last week we started her on prescription Royal Canin Renal Support in the "T" flavor, one of several flavorful choices they have. The change was remarkable. She gulped down her food, has more energy, drinks a normal amount of water daily, and now sleeps through the night without peeing. We will be repeating a test after one month on the Royal Canin.

If you have not yet tried this brand, I encourage you to do so.

https://www.royalcanin.com/us/dogs/products/vet-products/renal-support-a-dry-dog-food

Royal Canin's Renal Support recipes are designed to appeal to the different taste preferences pets can have. The dry recipes are A, F, and S. A is for Aromatic and is formulated to have a stronger scent in a round kibble. F is for Flavorful and is a triangular kibble with enhanced flavor. S is for S avory and i s a square kibble offering a more varied flavor profile. The canned recipes are T, D, and E. T is for Tasty and is a slices in gravy option with multiple flavor profiles. D is for Delectable and is formulated as morsels in gravy, similar to the Renal Support T. E is for Enticing and is a pate texture canned recipe with chicken and pork flavors.

 

Oh I'm sorry to hear about Hada - I hope she continues to do well on her new food. 

Thanks for this. Royal Canin is one of the ones we use - the dry and the wet. Unfortunately as far as I can tell they only do one flavour in the UK.

Hills do a couple of types of tinned food - the chicken stew is the one we have the most success with. 

At the start I cooked a lot of food for her - chicken with rice and vegetables - but she wouldn't eat it once reheated so it meant cooking 3-4 times per day which I struggled with. Maybe a compromise where she gets a mixture of cooked and wet/dry is the way to go for a bit. 

[macoduck]

MattB, we started out with the Hills chicken stew.

Our group had an adopter who was an amazing cook. When her dog got picky she cooked chicken/rice, veggies for her every day for over a year. Her dog was not improving even though she was eating. When she finally told me about it was when she learned that this food exclusively was neglecting many key nutrients. She went back to dog food and is fine. I, personally, know nothing about how to feed home-cooked or raw.

I haven't joined these pages but they may be of help to you:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/582094775463298

https://www.facebook.com/CRFDogs

This one is based in the UK:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/276633539481798

[greysmom]

Kidney failure is hard to negotiate, because you need to feed exactly the opposite of what a dog wants to eat.  It's also important to remember that the cause of their inappetence isn't the food, it's the nausea that goes along with failing kidneys, and that you're really not attempting to "heal" your dog.  Kidney failure doesn't get better, so your concern should be about quality of life.

If that means tempting her along with higher protein foods that aren't as great for her kidneys, I think that's a call only you can make, balancing how fast her disease progresses with getting enough food into her to maintain weight and energy.  But, unfortunately, at some point you'll come to a place where she's not enjoying eating at all.  Then you'll be close to decision time between struggling on and letting her go.

I've been there twice with dogs of mine, and it's heartbreaking to work so hard, only to lose them anyway.  {{{hugs}}} for both you and Daisy!

[MattB]

6 hours ago, macoduck said:

MattB, we started out with the Hills chicken stew.

Our group had an adopter who was an amazing cook. When her dog got picky she cooked chicken/rice, veggies for her every day for over a year. Her dog was not improving even though she was eating. When she finally told me about it was when she learned that this food exclusively was neglecting many key nutrients. She went back to dog food and is fine. I, personally, know nothing about how to feed home-cooked or raw.

I haven't joined these pages but they may be of help to you:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/582094775463298

https://www.facebook.com/CRFDogs

This one is based in the UK:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/276633539481798

Thanks. You're right - it's not as simple as rice and chicken and veg. I've been reading a webpage by someone who did a lot of research and has a recipe for a homecooked meal his dog food well on. Thanks for the FB pages, I've joined one but it is, sadly, mainly much more poorly dogs than Daisy and I felt uncomfortable posting when Daisy is so well at the moment.

[MattB]

5 hours ago, greysmom said:

Kidney failure is hard to negotiate, because you need to feed exactly the opposite of what a dog wants to eat.  It's also important to remember that the cause of their inappetence isn't the food, it's the nausea that goes along with failing kidneys, and that you're really not attempting to "heal" your dog.  Kidney failure doesn't get better, so your concern should be about quality of life.

If that means tempting her along with higher protein foods that aren't as great for her kidneys, I think that's a call only you can make, balancing how fast her disease progresses with getting enough food into her to maintain weight and energy.  But, unfortunately, at some point you'll come to a place where she's not enjoying eating at all.  Then you'll be close to decision time between struggling on and letting her go.

I've been there twice with dogs of mine, and it's heartbreaking to work so hard, only to lose them anyway.  {{{hugs}}} for both you and Daisy!

Thanks greysmom - I'm sorry you've lost dogs through kidney failure. Thanks for that info - yes so it's a balance between the 'ideal' food and getting her to eat. At the moment I don't think we're doing too bad, she's currently eyeballing me waiting for our night walk. But I do know that at her age we never know how long we have left together - kidney disease or not!

[GreyPoopon]

I've lost 5 dogs to kidney disease. I basically agree with greysmom: there comes a point when you feed whatever they will eat. I've used tasty additions, prepared stews, even fed a sample of cat food that came with the local paper. A trick will work for a time, then fail, usually forever. I hope you can find something--a series of somethings--that will keep Daisy eating for some time.

[MP_the4pack]

I was successful with a homemade diet for my CC.  When she stopped eating that with all the meds she was on to help her appetite,  that was it. She left me in Jan at the young age of 6.

[cleptogrey]

i have had 3 dogs on rice and chicken, a minimal amount of chicken to give the rice flavor and have saved a bundle not purchasing RX food. cook the rice w/ raw chicken parts in it, debone the chicken and chop, mix in and it's totally irresistible. when felix was really on the decline from kidney failure we added prednisone to his daily regime. it enhanced his appetite and improved his quality of life.

[cleptogrey]

oh, just wanted to add, a raw feeder i know highly recommended raw green tripe- she used that on her kidney damaged dog. well- my dog's #s went thru the ceiling on it. so, don't waste your money.