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Violet - likely stroke


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About a month ago Violet has a second, more severe "episode" like one she had had one year ago. I thought it was odd they were so far apart, but figured it was a focal seizure since she recovered really quickly both times. She's also had increasing issues with her suspected disc issue so we ended up at the neurologist for another consult today. The good news is cancer is very very low on the differential dx list and she agrees with the earlier dx of an issue with a lumbar disc or discs that is getting worse with time and activity. 

However, she thought the episodes were actually strokes. Most likely because she's a greyhound, but I do have a list of possible underlying causes that I can work with my vet to test for. Just curious if anyone else has experienced something like this and whether you found a cause/what the prognosis was.

Here's what I caught on video this time:

What isn't captured well is the nystagmus/eye movement, but it's one of the most obvious symptoms (left eye) and according to the Neuro she has some residual effects in that eye.

Btw, she's 12 now and I'm still undecided on whether we'll do an MRI. 

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I don't have the training to help with a diagnosis, but I do have too damn much experience with neurological issues (dog and cat), and I have to send sympathy and best wishes to you and Violet. It must be tough to experience and it's hell to watch. I hope she recovers quickly from this episode.

FWIW, I wouldn't do an MRI unless the vet thought it would alter the course of treatment.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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Have any of your vets checked her BP? 

My Pearl had something very similar during a walk. So we turned right around and I called her cardiologist.  She told me to come right in as she suspected her BP was high. It was very high. The hypertension causes clots which causes strokes.

 

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My little podenco, Hada, had something similar.  Head tilt, vomiting, staggering, no nystagmus though, licking the carpet constantly. Lab work was normal. Diagnosed with a stroke in the area behind her ear. Vet only recognized it because her own dog had had it too.

It took a week for Hada's episodes to end. The only med vet said to give was Meclizine (same ingredient at Dramamine) because the carpet licking was related to the nausea, caused by the stroke behind her ear.

 

Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Lulu the podenco andaluz, Rita the podenco maneta
Angels: Charlie the iggy,  Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt.

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At one time we were considering an MRI when Jacey appeared to be having mild seizures. The vet said not to do the MRI: If there was a tumor or something causing the behavior, there was nothing we could do about it, and there wasn't much an MRI could reveal that we could treat.

Sorry Violet is having trouble. I'm so grateful that my 13-year-old Jane is mentally and physically sound. Knock wood.

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Kathy and Q (CRT Qadeer from Fuzzy's Cannon and CRT Bonnie) and
Jane (WW's Aunt Jane from Trent Lee and Aunt M); photos to come.

Missing Silver (5.19.2005-10.27.2016), Tigger (4.5.2007-3.18.2016),
darling Sam (5.10.2000-8.8.2013), Jacey-Kasey (5.19.2003-8.22.2011), and Oreo (1997-3.30.2006)

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2 hours ago, MP_the4pack said:

Have any of your vets checked her BP? 

My Pearl had something very similar during a walk. So we turned right around and I called her cardiologist.  She told me to come right in as she suspected her BP was high. It was very high. The hypertension causes clots which causes strokes.

 

It's on the list of things to follow-up with our regular vet on that the neuro provided and definitely something we will check. Oh if it could be something that simple! One can hope. 

 

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Definitely good to have some feedback and support. I wasn't expecting the stroke dx at all, though no cancer is good news!

 

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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This looks very similar to what Petunia had in the middle of the night one night. The first one was over a year ago.  She had what I thought was the start of another one recently but it went away quickly, so I don't know if she actually had something wrong or if i was just seeing something that wasn't there.  The diagnosis when she had the first one was a Vestibular Event. The vet also said it can be sometimes called old dog syndrome or some variation of that name.  The head tilt and excessive drooling were the main basis for Petunia's diagnosis. During the onset she also seemed to not be able to find her rear end to sit down. I sort of saw that same thing in Violet's video. 

Violet's video looked very familiar to Petunia's incident.  That night I gave it about a half hour before making the decision to go to the E-Vet. About 2 hours after we left her there, the vet called and said she was apparently back to normal because she was complaining about everything. :lol She has been fine since except for that one time when I thought one of the events was starting. 

Hope you can get it figured out and that Violet is feeling better soon. 

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The currently empty and way too quiet home of Camp Broodie.  Always missing my boy Rocket Hi Noon Rocket,  Allie  Phoenix Dynamite, Kate Miss Kate, Starz Under Da Starz, and Petunia MW Neptunia.

 

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No differential expertise -- just sending cyberhugs to you both.  

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Ellen, with brindles Milo and Jeter, and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey

remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, and Nutmeg

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My Dachshund, Claire, had what was diagnosed as a stroke when she was about 15.  I found her struggling to stand, agitated and frantic, soaked from panting and floundering.  In the aftermath, she experienced a head tilt and she tended to circle when trying to walk.  I do not remember any nystagmus. This episode occurred nearly 30 years ago, so the world of veterinary medicine was in a very different place.  There was not any testing recommended--the vet felt confident in his diagnosis--and there was not any treatment offered either.  I happened to have worked with human stroke patients and watched Claire's recovery with interest.  She actually did quite well--within a very few days she was walking well, lost the head tilt, and seemed fully recovered.  She lived for 2 more years with no more stroke symptoms or similar episodes. 

I realize this is not helpful for you diagnostically, but perhaps it can serve as a small ray of encouragement.  Warm best wishes for you and Violet.

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Lucy with Greyhound Nate and OSH Tinker. With loving memories of MoMo (FTH Chyna Moon), Spirit, Miles the slinky kitty (OSH), Piper "The Perfect" (Oneco Chaplin), Winston, Yoda, Hector, and Claire.

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Posted (edited)

:( that was so hard to watch :(  It SO sucks when something's going on with our babies that we are powerless to help.  No advice (didn't look like a seizure, at least like what our Rainey had) but sending many prayers she'll be ok.  :grouphug 

Edited by RaineysMom

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Nystagmus was the word I couldn't think of last night when replying to this.  Petunia had that as well which was one of the ways they diagnosed the vestibular event that Petunia had. 

How is Violet doing today? 

rocket-signature-jpeg.jpg

The currently empty and way too quiet home of Camp Broodie.  Always missing my boy Rocket Hi Noon Rocket,  Allie  Phoenix Dynamite, Kate Miss Kate, Starz Under Da Starz, and Petunia MW Neptunia.

 

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For one of my kitties, the vet seemed to say that nystagmus is more indicative of vestibular disease than stroke. That kitty survived two bad bouts of vestibular disease at age 3 (we did an MRI after the second; general inflammation). She lived to almost 18, when she had a third event (stroke, I think) and wasn't coming back.

Ivy (now 13 1/2) had an episode in December that I didn't see, but which left her weak and disoriented and covered in vomit. The vet thought seizure or stroke. She hasn't had a repeat so I'm betting stroke.

I also had a seizure dog; her grand mal events were nothing like Violet's.

(And a probable-tumour dog, who didn't improve. And some neck issues. And a couple with FCE's. And another kitty with vestibular disease (two events). And, and, and, ...)

I hope Violet is feeling better today.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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Thanks everyone! I appreciate all of the feedback and support!

By the way, this incident was in May. She was acting completely normal within minutes and has been fine since minus one residual thing with her eye that the vet found, but that doesn't seem to be affecting her. I think the concern is just that the next one will be worse. The first two were a year apart though so here's hoping that's way off. 

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Some of us (ahem, moi) didn't read your post carefully enough. :lol I'm glad Violet has been (mostly) fine since. I hope she doesn't have another event.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13); Greys Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10), Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21)

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4 hours ago, GreyPoopon said:

Some of us (ahem, moi) didn't read your post carefully enough. :lol I'm glad Violet has been (mostly) fine since. I hope she doesn't have another event.

Hey, I appreciate the delayed sympathy. :D 

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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I’m late to the party but I thought I would interject….have you checked for  for proteinuria?  When a dog tosses protein through the urine he/she is losing antithrombin also by default.  Check that urine :-)

Edited by tbhounds
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1 hour ago, tbhounds said:

I’m late to the party but I thought I would interject….have you checked for  for proteinuria?  When a dog tosses protein through the urine he/she is losing antithrombin also by default.  Check that urine :-)

Thanks, I appreciate the input. We had blood work done recently, but urine wasn't included because it was an ER visit. She did have it checked around the time of the first "episode" and the vet didn't raise any concerns then, everything "normal", but I'm going to set up an appt with our regular vet to follow up and will ask about this. 

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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