Noob questions about feeding a Grey (puppy)

[Herman]

Hello,

 

Quite new here on this Grey forum. In a couple of weeks our puppy will arrive in our home in The Netherlands. We have had many cats and dogs, but never a puppy! So this is new for us.

That is why I have a little bit of a noob question about food for the little bugger.

 

I’m a fan of raw food; it feels natural. However, after many years of research and talks with many dog owners and veterinarians, I have come to the conclusion that there isn’t a real need for raw food.

I might be wrong, though. However, for my new puppy I am planning (he will be around 8/9 weeks) to give him a breakfast of a frozen chicken leg and a dinner of kibble (Acana puppy for the first six months), combined with an egg, some veggies, a little bit of stock and some bread. In the daytime he can have a frozen Kong filled with some peanutbutter, meat and dried fish. I have chosen Acana for the availability and the quality compared to the price. During the day he will have some Farmfood trainers (probably a lot) and a Yak cheese chew. I also will have a Nylabone for him, but only when he’s a little bit older (6+ months).

 

There is some controversy around chicken (uncooked, I know). So I would like to know when to start (if at all) feeding like this.

 

So to be thorough:

•Frozen chicken leg in the morning, yea or nay?

•An alternative for frozen chicken leg (for healthy teeth)?

•When to start with bones?

•What kind of bones?

•My choice of dinner is a good choice or not?

 

These are my questions. I do hope that you lovely people can help out a little bit.

 

Have a greyt day!

 

 

 

 

[Hubcitypam]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Hello,

 

Quite new here on this Grey forum. In a couple of weeks our puppy will arrive in our home in The Netherlands. We have had many cats and dogs, but never a puppy! So this is new for us.

That is why I have a little bit of a noob question about food for the little bugger.

 

I’m a fan of raw food; it feels natural. However, after many years of research and talks with many dog owners and veterinarians, I have come to the conclusion that there isn’t a real need for raw food.

I might be wrong, though. However, for my new puppy I am planning (he will be around 8/9 weeks) to give him a breakfast of a frozen chicken leg and a dinner of kibble (Acana puppy for the first six months), combined with an egg, some veggies, a little bit of stock and some bread. In the daytime he can have a frozen Kong filled with some peanutbutter, meat and dried fish. I have chosen Acana for the availability and the quality compared to the price. During the day he will have some Farmfood trainers (probably a lot) and a Yak cheese chew. I also will have a Nylabone for him, but only when he’s a little bit older (6+ months).

 

There is some controversy around chicken (uncooked, I know). So I would like to know when to start (if at all) feeding like this.

 

So to be thorough:

•Frozen chicken leg in the morning, yea or nay?

•An alternative for frozen chicken leg (for healthy teeth)?

•When to start with bones?

•What kind of bones?

•My choice of dinner is a good choice or not?

 

These are my questions. I do hope that you lovely people can help out a little bit.

 

Have a greyt day!

 

 

 

 

 

[Hubcitypam]

Don't overanalyze.  Thousands  of greys have grown up hale and hearty on Purina which is WAY down on the average adopters scale in dog food.
Chicken bones can splinter and cause problems.  I used to use beef knuckles (almost impossible to find) but then you risk slab fractures.   I became friends with a butcher and he'd cut a femur into 4 pieces and that worked best for me.

[Remolacha]

I am also a raw feeder, but have never dealt with a puppy. The only concern I would have in giving him the raw chicken is if his teeth are strong enough to chew the whole bone. I assume he has lost his puppy teeth? Also, frozen might be harder to chew than not-frozen. Otherwise, it sounds good. 
I hear land sharks (puppies) have lots of energy, so have fun!

[HeyRunDog]

To start with feed him the same as he's been having and substitute new dietary items slowly otherwise you'll be surprised at how much liquid can come out of a small dog

Good luck with him and I hope you've got eyes in the back of your head and new running shoes because greyhound pups are very active

[racindog]

I just completed raising a Belgian Shepherd puppy from 8 weeks to 1 year old (on next Monday) and wanted to warn you not to make the mistake I did.  He was my first puppy for many many years. I feed raw because after years of doing so it has proven to me that it is healthier and cheaper actually because I don't have to run to vets for common problems that seem to occur in kibble fed dogs.  They also have far better teeth and seem to stay far healthier with less problems as they age.  HOWEVER I did not know how to calculate a scientifically perfectly balanced diet for a puppy with raw ingredients. I knew the proper balance of nutrients was absolutely critical for a pup and so I decided I would feed a big shot perfectly scientifically formulated puppy kibble for the first year or so. BIG MISTAKE.  My poor little guy developed panosteitis (growing pains) straight-a-way   At times he was in terrible pain and would even hold his foot(different ones at different times) off of the ground he limped so bad.  That was when I learned from EXPERIENCED puppy raisers that the puppy kibble makes them grow too fast and  hence panosteitis is the result.  I felt so bad I had done this to him and caused him such suffering. The vet offered nothing except dog pain/NSAIDs which I refused to give to such a young pup because frankly they could have damaged his kidneys or worse.  I found a protocol that called for raw food; NO carbs; various natural remedy's that have proven effectiveness, and lo and behold the pano flareups became less and less and eventually subsided all together.  Currently he is the picture of health. As soon as I switched him from the big shot perfect scientifically formulated kibble that brought that horrid and painful disease on him to the raw he began to improve. I will never make the mistake of doing that to a pup again. And the raw was not 'specially' formulated or anything else. It is the same food-whole prey model based- the other adult dogs have always got.  But the difference is the raw diet causes them to grow at an APPROPRIATE rate not to mention all the other benefits.  The puppy kibble makes them grow too fast and then its a sad thing to see a puppy who should be happy and running and playing laying in their kennel not wanting to move because it hurts so bad and then knowing it was your fault for feeding them the stupid kibble.  Never again.   He is a beautiful strong healthy working dog currently in Search & Rescue training.  So my vote is for raw. 

[MaryJane]

I would not do bones until the puppy is much older.  Give chicken breasts - cooked or raw and roasts that have been seared quickly on outside. You can use the egg shells for calcium. Do your research -- analyze the puppy vitamin/mineral requirements and see if the dog food vitamin mix is enough along with egg shells and if not, supplement. You can also check out the nearest vet school and see if they have a nutritionist that will analyze the food for you.

[Herman]

Indeed I will not start with bones until the little bugger is old enough! I will not cook bones, but some chicken necks maybe when he's a few months old is a fine start to see how he reacts to it.

[Remolacha]

Chicken necks sound like a good place to start. They were too small for my adult greys, Fletcher could (and did) swallow one whole   Duck necks are a good compromise between chicken and turkey necks for adult dogs. Not sure if turkey is readily available where you are.

[Herman]

Ducks is a good idea! But I reckon that in the first few months that he is able to consume chicken necks, these will suffice. But if they become too small for our little piranah, I will step it up to something bigger.

By the way, our local butchers and supermarkets and even street markets sell chicken, duck, kangaroo, and even some occasional crocodile meat. Turkey has been on European diets for decades now. Believe me, here in Europe we are not in the bush-bush... :-) 

[cleptogrey]

commenting on racingdog"s post- i was told when my last gh puppy came to the house - FEED ADULT FOOD with lower protein levels. you want them to grow slowly. i'm now dealing w/ a whippet puppy- her breeder had her on purina sport - i've cut her protein levels back and she is filling out and doing well.  as to bones- my GH loved his beef knuckle and marrow bones when he was a wee pup. no problem letting those scissor teeth rip the meat off the bone. i removed most of the marrow since it's so rich. 

i don't/won't feed raw. so no comments there. from what i have observed watch/talking to pure raw feeders it's a science getting all of the minerals/proteins etc balanced. not for me- i would rather spend my time working on training and exercising my pup. also here in the ny area it is difficult to find and quite costly. 

have a blast w/ your puppy and remember nothing is sacred- no matter where you put it, unless it is put away.

[Remolacha]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:41 AM, Herman said:

Ducks is a good idea! But I reckon that in the first few months that he is able to consume chicken necks, these will suffice. But if they become too small for our little piranah, I will step it up to something bigger.

By the way, our local butchers and supermarkets and even street markets sell chicken, duck, kangaroo, and even some occasional crocodile meat. Turkey has been on European diets for decades now. Believe me, here in Europe we are not in the bush-bush... :-) 

Didn’t mean to imply you were out in the sticks  I guess turkey is just as popular in Europe as over here, cheap and feeds a lot of people, but it is not my favorite bird. Dogs seem to like it though!

[greysmom]

I would not freeze the chicken legs - makes them too hard for little teeth and jaws - but raw occassionally should be fine.  My biggest issue is with the Acana kibble.  Here we are dealing with an epidemic (no, not THAT one!) of diet-induced Dilated Cardio Myeopathy (DCM) causing many dogs to die prematurely.  Currently the FDA is investigating the cause, but initially it is linked to boutique diets not containing whole grains.  The Acana doesn't have any grains, and the use of legumes as a substitute is to increase the protein levels - something a growing puppy doesn't need, as outlined above.  

Please choose a different kibble if you're going to hybrid feed.

We've raised two puppies on two different kibbles and they definitely do better on a large breed adult kibble like Purina.  Not too much protein, additional whole grains, scientifically tested and balanced diet.  A puppy needs access to all kinds of nutrients to grow properly.

FWIW, I would add in whole grains to a raw diet, commercial or home made, as it has also been linked to DCM.

[Herman]

3 hours ago, Remolacha said:

Didn’t mean to imply you were out in the sticks  I guess turkey is just as popular in Europe as over here, cheap and feeds a lot of people, but it is not my favorite bird. Dogs seem to like it though!

I was just messing around of course. However, I seldomly eat meat but when I do, I prefer a piece of turkey or a slice of turkey on my bread. Funny, right?

[Herman]

1 hour ago, greysmom said:

I would not freeze the chicken legs - makes them too hard for little teeth and jaws - but raw occassionally should be fine.  My biggest issue is with the Acana kibble.  Here we are dealing with an epidemic (no, not THAT one!) of diet-induced Dilated Cardio Myeopathy (DCM) causing many dogs to die prematurely.  Currently the FDA is investigating the cause, but initially it is linked to boutique diets not containing whole grains.  The Acana doesn't have any grains, and the use of legumes as a substitute is to increase the protein levels - something a growing puppy doesn't need, as outlined above.  

Please choose a different kibble if you're going to hybrid feed.

We've raised two puppies on two different kibbles and they definitely do better on a large breed adult kibble like Purina.  Not too much protein, additional whole grains, scientifically tested and balanced diet.  A puppy needs access to all kinds of nutrients to grow properly.

FWIW, I would add in whole grains to a raw diet, commercial or home made, as it has also been linked to DCM.

Gosh, it is becoming rapidly ever so more complicated now... 
I am honestly torn between going full raw after all and kibble (the problem is that several websites say quite the contrary of what you are stating!). It is very hard to make a decision.
Just for the record: if you buy instant raw deep-frozen, you got these big sausages and I wonder how in heaven you people split these into workeable parts? Do you use electric knives? Or a plain old cleaver?
Still got a few weeks to decide!

Thanks for the input, though! Greetings, Herman

[cleptogrey]

17 hours ago, Herman said:

Gosh, it is becoming rapidly ever so more complicated now... 
I am honestly torn between going full raw after all and kibble (the problem is that several websites say quite the contrary of what you are stating!). It is very hard to make a decision.
Just for the record: if you buy instant raw deep-frozen, you got these big sausages and I wonder how in heaven you people split these into workeable parts? Do you use electric knives? Or a plain old cleaver?
Still got a few weeks to decide!

Thanks for the input, though! Greetings, Herman

i tried green frozen tripe/5lb bullets(sausages) when my male was having kidney issues(p.s. his values went up, so i cut it out). it was totally gross- one needs to defrost it in a bin since the clamp at the end does not keep the blood contained. it was all over the fridge. also, one needs a separate freezer for bulk deliveries. at the time i was only purchasing 10/5lb bullets at a time. we had NO HUMAN food in the freezer. that is something to consider. living in a small small home( chateau bungalow) we do not have the space for a free standing freezer.

what does your vet say about this? i have a couple of friends who are vets- they roll their eyes at raw feeding.

[Remolacha]

I defrost the raw enough to separate it into about two days worth of food and re-freeze what I am not using right away. I thaw smaller amounts in the frig, but when I was buying duck or turkey necks by the case they got defrosted in the bathtub 

[Herman]

On 11/23/2020 at 2:26 PM, cleptogrey said:

i tried green frozen tripe/5lb bullets(sausages) when my male was having kidney issues(p.s. his values went up, so i cut it out). it was totally gross- one needs to defrost it in a bin since the clamp at the end does not keep the blood contained. it was all over the fridge. also, one needs a separate freezer for bulk deliveries. at the time i was only purchasing 10/5lb bullets at a time. we had NO HUMAN food in the freezer. that is something to consider. living in a small small home( chateau bungalow) we do not have the space for a free standing freezer.

what does your vet say about this? i have a couple of friends who are vets- they roll their eyes at raw feeding.

Sorry, have not been well a few days.

My vet says she does not know (I called her yesterday) of any study that says that the use of dryfood is bad.

she is not a fan of raw before adulthood due to risks. If adult, then my choise but still no fan. One other vet (my old retired) thinks dry is good enough.

 

she left me very confused.

Same goes for Orije & Acana. Almost EVERY site gives Acana one of the highest scores and Purina Pro extreme low. I could give you the sites.

I haven’t a clue anymore. I want to give my new one good food with the best chance of getting through life without a nasty illness of premature death. Sounds logical, right?

I still have a few weeks of figuring out!

[cleptogrey]

just don't go grain free. DCM is related to a grain free diet. i also, don't go by scores. the people who are making up the rating system- how are they qualified and how do we know there isn't sonship behind them?

https://www.whole-dog-journal.com/food/diet-dogs-and-dcm/

https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/study-grain-free-diet-for-dogs-leads-to-canine-heart-disease/

a friend just adopted a 6 month old gh- what did the breeder and the head of the adoption group(who races gh as well)- purina in the green checkered bag! my then 5 month old  was not filling out on proplan sport- her breeder(30+  years of experience)suggested  purina one/shredded beef and sport mixed. she is doing really well.

remember you can aways change brands of kibble. purina does put quite a bit of $$$ into testing. my friend in texas(who only eats organic) was feeding a designer food- $80+ for a medium size bag- her friend (horse/dog show person) told her about gentle giant- made in texas.  it's not the brand- it's one's dog. 

[Remolacha]

It is always good to get your vet’s opinion,  but ultimately it is your decision.  Many vet’s over here don’t get much (if any) education about raw feeding. Also, they worry that people won’t do the work to get it right. Unless you buy a commercial blend, it’s is on you to get the balance of nutrition right. A lot more work than pouring out some kibble from a bag. The “grain free causes DCM” is still being investigated which may be why you haven’t heard anything. Many people feel like there is enough evidence to not make it worth taking a chance. The latest thinking that I have seen is that the alternative items being used as binders, in place of grains, may be the cause. According to their website, Acana makes a kibble with grain (oatmeal). 
personally, I would go with a mix of kibble and raw for a puppy, but I have never raised a puppy.