Newly adopted ex-racer nipping at other dogs

[ccwparty]

Hi everyone, 

 

We adopted Louie, a 5-year-old ex-racer about 6 weeks ago - our first greyhound. He's a lovely dog: affectionate, calm, happy to be manhandled, easy on the lead, etc. However, we noticed some concerning behaviour when we tried to start recall training him off-lead (with a muzzle) in a small dog exercise area near us - he'd start furiously chasing other dogs and ignore their barking/crying, and seemed to be trying to nip them through his muzzle. (We've since stopped doing this after reading several threads on here about greyhounds in dog parks, and the danger of muzzling a greyhound when other dogs aren't muzzled.) 

 

Generally speaking we haven't been muzzling Louie anymore when walking him on-lead, as when he meets other dogs on walks he either completely ignores them, or he greets them politely with a tail wag and a sniff before moving on. We've recently noticed though that if the other dog is running, Louie gets excited and starts to move as if he wants to join them in running. He did this and nipped a dog that ran past him the other day, and yesterday he lightly nipped a spaniel puppy who was excitedly running off lead and jumping up in front of him. He seems to be doing this playfully as he seems excited and is wagging his tail, but obviously other dogs don't like it and we're worried about whether it's a warning sign of some kind. Is this just a question of continuing to socialise him with other dogs until he learns that this isn't an appropriate way to play with them? Or does it mean that he has aggressive instincts and can't be trusted with smaller dogs? 

 

We are meant to be away for two weeks at Christmas and had been planning to leave Louie with my in-laws - but they have a (grown and well-behaved) cocker spaniel, and we're now worried that Louie might get excited in the house and end up injuring her, inadvertently or otherwise. We've been discussing various options, like asking my in-laws to muzzle Louie at all times apart from when he's eating (which seems a bit cruel), or just lodging him at a local kennel instead where there are trained professionals on hand. For further context, we haven't been able to introduce the dogs to each other yet due to Covid restrictions, but our plan had been for my husband to spend three or four days there beforehand to help settle Louie in (and do the whole thing of introducing him to the other dog in a neutral location, with the muzzle on, etc) and to then be on hand to keep an eye on the situation so we're not just throwing my in-laws in the deep end. 

 

I'd love to hear from people who have experience with this behaviour - 

1) Generally speaking, is this nipping behaviour cause for concern or is this just inappropriately playful greyhound behaviour that can be easily managed over time?

2) Should we be worried about leaving him for two weeks in a household with another dog? 

 

Really appreciate your insight!

[BatterseaBrindl]

My guys nip at each other when they're playing. Many Greys will do this.  

Do you have a basket muzzle?  If so, Louie could wear it when playing with other dogs.   That said... he should not be muzzled if the other dogs are not as he would have no way to defend himself if the other dogs attacked.  

And let's face it... if a super excited dog came up to him and started leaping and jumping around, of course he is going to respond!   Nipping is not attacking...he is just playing.

I will say that dog parks and greyhounds are not often a good mix...for this exact reason.   It is his nature to chase the other running dogs.    Most Greyhounds owners that I know (Ontario, Canada) never go to the dog park.  We try and find  Greyhound only playgroup where all dogs are muzzled. 

I'd start by taking Louie on outdoor walks with your in-laws dogs to let them get to know each other on neutral ground.  Social distancing can be well-maintained while outside walking.    

Alternatively, can your Greyhound group recommend a Greyhound-only boarding kennel?

 

[HeyRunDog]

The way Covid is going in the UK at the moment your problem might not materialise.

Nipping is how greyhounds play which is why in pre Covid days my adoption group insisted that the hounds are muzzled when attending one of their monthly open days when they made their paddock available.

If possible I would start now with getting the dogs getting to know each other.

[MerseyGrey]

We did a google search for dog fields, as there are usually places where you can hire a field for 1/2 hour or hour if you want to work on his recall training. The difference between the hired field and the dog park is that there will be no distractions at the dog field, and no matter how good his recall is when you’re training him, it may not necessarily apply when there are distractions around. We learnt this the hard way when ours chased and caught someone else’s dog. It’s a horrible feeling to know that our dog, through our misjudgement, could have caused someone else to lose their beloved dog, and then waiting to see if anything was going to happen to our dog because of our choices. My dog doesn’t care that he’s on a lead. It was me that it bothered, but I’ve just come to realise that having him off lead doesn’t need to be the goal and that lead walking is not detrimental to his health or happiness.

[DocsDoctor]

10 hours ago, BatterseaBrindl said:

  

Alternatively, can your Greyhound group recommend a Greyhound-only boarding kennel?

 

Just to say, the OP may even find that the group can offer holiday kennelling themselves - this is standard for the Greyhound Trust and some other UK greyhound adoption centres. Of course, Covid may have changed that. But do ask; the suggested donation is normally very reasonable, and my guys have always loved being back with their own kind, even if the conditions are more spartan than at home! And for me it's very reassuring to know that my dog's being cared for by people who know and love greyhounds so well.

Re the nipping: my first dog Doc would nip when he played, and we also had the problem initially that because he hadn't been around other breeds, a fast-moving fluffy dog or squirmy puppy could all too easily set off his strong prey drive. We overcame this by attending some mixed-breed positive dog training classes, where I learnt about dog body language and he learnt that all those other funny-looking creatures were, actually, dogs too. It really helped but again, Covid probably rules anything like that out. Though a one-to-one session with such a trainer in a busy local park could be helpful?

[ccwparty]

Thanks, everyone, for the good advice. We've now decided to board him at a greyhound-specific kennel near us and are feeling relieved that we won't have to worry about how he's faring while we're away (if indeed the trip ends up happening!). I wouldn't imagine that Louie would ever be aggressive toward my in-laws' cocker spaniel, but I simply don't trust that we've had him for long enough to know he won't behave inappropriately and scare my in-laws. 

 

It's also useful to know @DocsDoctor that your grey nipped when he played in the beginning. Dog training classes are a good idea. There are a lot of dogs of various breeds (particularly, it seems, small fluffy ones!) in our local park, and when we have time we try to walk Louie over to the other dogs so he can have a sniff and say hello. It's just hard because the other dogs are normally off-lead, all running and playing with each other, so Louie just ends up standing there looking a bit puzzled as to why he can't join in. 

[racindog]

The nipping is genetic. It is in his genes and he is going to express it. What it is is prey drive.  It is the reason greyhounds chase the bunny so to speak and is their key to survival in nature. He also has something called hunt drive.  Hunt drive is what gets them to keep searching and keep trying to capture the prey.  You will probably notice that he likes balls or squeaky toys or will get excited at squirrels?  You cannot give his genes a makeover. In reality strong drives are a good thing and are highly prized and coveted for working dogs.  It gives the dogs a capability to do things that average pets that do not have such drives simply can't do.  The caveat is management as you have discovered.  On the one hand you are blessed with a dog that would probably excel at certain dog sports and you can have great fun training and going places and accomplishing things with him that non drivey dogs just can't do no matter how bad the owner wants or how hard they train. On the other you have to manage that drive and TBH prey drive can be "serious" in that his drive will be telling him to chase, capture and kill.  So you absolutely have to protect him from being put in situations where the opportunity to chase another animal exists.  Please understand! He is not being "bad." He is NOT being aggressive. He is simply doing what he has been genetically programmed to do for 5,000 years.  It is not personal with him.  Its not that he doesn't like a certain animal/dog etc. It just that when he sees "prey" he does just like you and I and responds to his genes.  That is why he gets along so well with other animals in general on walks etc.  They are not acting like prey then and he so doesn't respond like they are.  IMO if he is allowed off leash around other dogs that are not prey models to him then ALL the dogs should be muzzled.  I think Louie sounds like a rather easily managed houndie for an experienced keeper.  There is no magic formula for having dogs get along with each other- either they like each other or they don't. I would expect Louie to treat the cocker ok just as he does the dogs you encounter on your walks UNLESS the prey drive gets started up and many things can do that.  A toy squeaking, a ball rolling across the floor, the cocker sprinting across the yard etc..  With experience you will easily be able to 'manage' Louie without any trouble but right now you don't have enough experience to do it easily so it will be work for you as you will always have to be super careful and protect him from 'going into prey drive" as much as you can. Its not as difficult as it sounds. You'll pick it up quick.  Do a little more research on it and it will make more sense to you.  Basically though it means you have an extra good dog that you just have to handle in a certain way that is not any big deal once you get some experience with it. JMO.

[MaryJane]

As noted in an earlier post, nipping can be part of prey drive and with that, cannot be trusted around small dogs/animals that are running since this can trigger the "prey drive".  As you spend more time with your dog, you can get a better sense of what triggers him and respond accordingly.

[MaryJane]

1 hour ago, racindog said:

The nipping is genetic. It is in his genes and he is going to express it. What it is is prey drive.  It is the reason greyhounds chase the bunny so to speak and is their key to survival in nature. He also has something called hunt drive.  Hunt drive is what gets them to keep searching and keep trying to capture the prey.  You will probably notice that he likes balls or squeaky toys or will get excited at squirrels?  You cannot give his genes a makeover. In reality strong drives are a good thing and are highly prized and coveted for working dogs.  It gives the dogs a capability to do things that average pets that do not have such drives simply can't do.  The caveat is management as you have discovered.  On the one hand you are blessed with a dog that would probably excel at certain dog sports and you can have great fun training and going places and accomplishing things with him that non drivey dogs just can't do no matter how bad the owner wants or how hard they train. On the other you have to manage that drive and TBH prey drive can be "serious" in that his drive will be telling him to chase, capture and kill.  So you absolutely have to protect him from being put in situations where the opportunity to chase another animal exists.  Please understand! He is not being "bad." He is NOT being aggressive. He is simply doing what he has been genetically programmed to do for 5,000 years.  It is not personal with him.  Its not that he doesn't like a certain animal/dog etc. It just that when he sees "prey" he does just like you and I and responds to his genes.  That is why he gets along so well with other animals in general on walks etc.  They are not acting like prey then and he so doesn't respond like they are.  IMO if he is allowed off leash around other dogs that are not prey models to him then ALL the dogs should be muzzled.  I think Louie sounds like a rather easily managed houndie for an experienced keeper.  There is no magic formula for having dogs get along with each other- either they like each other or they don't. I would expect Louie to treat the cocker ok just as he does the dogs you encounter on your walks UNLESS the prey drive gets started up and many things can do that.  A toy squeaking, a ball rolling across the floor, the cocker sprinting across the yard etc..  With experience you will easily be able to 'manage' Louie without any trouble but right now you don't have enough experience to do it easily so it will be work for you as you will always have to be super careful and protect him from 'going into prey drive" as much as you can. Its not as difficult as it sounds. You'll pick it up quick.  Do a little more research on it and it will make more sense to you.  Basically though it means you have an extra good dog that you just have to handle in a certain way that is not any big deal once you get some experience with it. JMO.

 

This is a great description of prey drive - what it is and how to handle it.