Assertive foster girl with passive older boy

[lulah62]

Hello!

 

Apologies for the long message!

 

We are super keen on taking in a second greyhound full time, and decided on a stint of fostering so we could decide if it was the right thing for us and our 7 yr old greyhound boy.

We've had him almost 5 years - he's a nervous chap and when I bought him home he was terrified of everything. He didn't understand affection, was petrified of stairs, of walks, aeroplanes etc. Just about everything you could imagine! Our challenge with him was to build his confidence and make sure he felt safe. He's now a very happy lad but very deferential - he has separation anxiety when left alone, but will settle well when left with various friends and families more assertive girl greyhounds (seen with multiple dogs)

 

We are still in the first week with our first foster girl (4 years old) so I am VERY aware that her world has been turned upside down and she's not quite herself. She comes across as very confident, but I think some of the 'issues' are really down to the understandable stress of being uprooted. She is wonderful with us, very affectionate, excitable and playful, (currently very velcro)  but there are a couple things I wanted to check in on if we need to nip in the bud / accept as just settling in.  I've included if we've noticed things getting better or worse, but as it's only over the course of a week this may not be relevant. Also, we know she was kennelled with a boy (also a large black boy, like ours) who was dominant over her

 

1) She is extremely assertive - she will happily throw herself up and down the stairs and tripping and falling doesn't bother her in the slightest.  She is very "rude" whereas he is very "polite" (I know these are humanisations, but they help explain the dynamic!) She will barge anyone out of her way, and is desperate to lead the walks. Our boy "sings" when he's excited, chirping and chattering his teeth and she HATES this, growling and bearing her teeth at him. Her growling at his singing has lessened a little but still happens WE THINK if she doesn't understand why he's excited, as otherwise her own excitement distracts her from chastising him.

 

2) Resource guarding - they get fed separately, but she will occasionally growl initially at our boy if he approaches their main water bowl. This immediately causes him to back off and go hide. He is greedy but not a bully - he has tried his luck taking one treat off her and she responded appropriately and he backed off and has not tried anything since. Guarding the main water bowl has got worse over a few days

 

3) Overall bonding - she is very people orientated, and constantly and enthusiastically asks for fusses. Our boy is a lot more shy, and will only come sit with you if you're sat quietly. Currently there is a big divide, with our girl bouncing around and trying to get on laps, monopolising attention etc, while our boy sits quietly alone in another room.

 

4) Pulling on the lead - she's currently got the rescue centre-issue fishtail collar but will strain SO HARD against the lead, we often spend the first 10 mins of the walk stop-starting with her trying to walk on her back legs and gagging (we do not let her continue this, but it's slow progress and each lunge must be awful for her throat). She will calm down a little eventually and walk (but still pulling) By the end of each walk (after a lot of correction) she generally walks acceptably. As mentioned above, she likes to be at the front of the pack and will pull less up front, but we are not allowing her to do this. She pulls regardless of if our boy is on or off lead, but pulls most when my partner and hound are walking too far ahead when she seems to be panicking about being left behind.

 

We understand that this is extremely early days and she is settling in and much of this will change as she settles, but we are feeling like our boy currently feels as thought we've bought a terrible barbarian into his nice quiet home. They completely ignore each other, other than her growls. Normally he is very relaxed and friendly with other girls in his house (we joke that he goes "ohh phew, someone who knows what they're doing!")

So far, our plans are
a) Make it clear she is not the boss. Our boy gets fed first, leaves the house first, gets cuddled most and is not to be growled at. A firm NO to her, and a cuddle for him if he gets growled at for an unacceptable reason (he did try steal a treat from her the other day, which she growled at him for and we deemed that acceptable). We have also added another water bowl, close to the one she's been protective over, so she doesn't feel she's guarding a scarce resource. Is this a fair approach, or are we humanising them too much? We've had such a journey with our boy, I may be being protective of his hard earnt confidence.
b) Nothing-in-life-is-free training. We are attempting this, but she is not food motivated. She will come when called for a fuss, but anything that requires her to be calm is proving much harder to instill! Any tips for excitable non-food motivated sighthounds would be ace
c) When do we need to consider a harness for her? I am worried she is doing damage to her throat, as she REALLY strains, but also she does eventually calm down? Again, just to press that we don't LET her continue pulling, but she will lunge forward and gag repeatedly for the first 10 mins of the walk.
d) We do let our boy off lead on walks as his recall is good and prey drive low. He walks calmly with us, but may occasionally burst into a zoomy, coming when he's called etc. She won't lunge to join in, but she does get worked up by this, bouncing on the spot. Do we need to keep him on lead to keep her calm, or is his good off lead behaviour useful for her to see?

 

Like I say, we weren't expecting everything to be easy and I know she's had a lot happen in the last week - I'm just keen to understand what we need to shrug off and what we need to address, and if there are any modifications to our behaviour that might ease her settling.

 

Thanks for any tips and advice :)

 

[Time4ANap]

Remember that by bringing in a foster you are also turning your boy's world upside down. 

There will be times that a particular foster will not get along with a dog in a home and it is usually imperative to get that foster to a different person to foster, especially if you think there is any danger of an injury to your dog. Honestly, your dog sounds like he is much more comfortable as an only dog, and if this ends up being the case, fostering may not be a good situation for him. On the flip side of that, the next dog you bring in could easily become his best friend, so there is a lot of trial and error when first introducing fosters.

Others here have had numerous fosters through their homes and can probably give you some more specific things to look for in the behaviors of both, but just remember that if the dog needs to be relocated to a different foster home, it is not a reflection on you as a foster. Sometimes a dog will just not do well in one home over another, and this is beyond the control any of us have. 

[lulah62]

Thanks Time4ANap. That's absolutely on mind.

 

I know our boy is very happy with other older dominant girls (all of whom have at various times told him off for understandable infractions and immediately settled into a good understanding of each other), but I am aware our foster is currently a lot more puppyish and (to him and us) seems unpredictable. She doesn't seem dangerous at all (as she calms down as soon as he backs off from whatever's upset her), but I don't want my boys confidence eroded because he will not stand up for himself when he's just trying to drink from his same old water bowl, or is just having a little sing because he's happy.

That being said, I do keep thinking how I would react if someone removed me from my home, plonked me in a weird place, went "this is your brother, he looks like someone who used to bully you, he sings out of tune and you must love him", all your routine is different - and you must be NICE!" I would probably be a bit of an a**hole for a little while. I think we need to give her the time to settle, but I want to make sure we're giving everyone the best shot at being happy

[Feefee147]

I don't really have any hints and tips - so not helpful! I'd love to start fostering dogs again if/when the time is right but at the moment our grey is still settling in so it is far too soon.

But I just wanted to say I think it's absolutely superb how you are handling this - particularly in respect of your boy. So many people take a new dog in, have no regard for the dog already there and then get cross if things start to go downhill or wonder why their current dog is suddenly showing upset, destructive or strange behaviour. I've even known people eventually get rid of the older pet and keep the new one because of behaviour changes 

The care and thought you have put into this is lovely and I hope it all, in time, works out.  

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Feefee147

[lulah62]

Thank you, FeeFee147! And congratulations on your new grey  I see you're London based too, shame Sighthound Sundays are on hiatus

My boy is the apple of my eye - he's had such a journey and I'm very protective over his happiness as it didn't come to him easy. It's lovely to see the other side of rehomed racers, where she's so enthusiastic and has no fear at all - so I know she will find a loving home one way or another- but my boy is the other half of my soul! He has his own issues but I couldn't be without him- the awkward, anxious, singing, endlessly paw-wounded, baldy butted weirdo that he is.

When I collected our boy from Battersea, they told me "all greyhounds are basically the same" and every time I meet a new one I wonder how on earth they could imagine that!

[Feefee147]

39 minutes ago, lulah62 said:

Thank you, FeeFee147! And congratulations on your new grey  I see you're London based too, shame Sighthound Sundays are on hiatus

My boy is the apple of my eye - he's had such a journey and I'm very protective over his happiness as it didn't come to him easy. It's lovely to see the other side of rehomed racers, where she's so enthusiastic and has no fear at all - so I know she will find a loving home one way or another- but my boy is the other half of my soul! He has his own issues but I couldn't be without him- the awkward, anxious, singing, endlessly paw-wounded, baldy butted weirdo that he is.

When I collected our boy from Battersea, they told me "all greyhounds are basically the same" and every time I meet a new one I wonder how on earth they could imagine that!

 

"the awkward, anxious, singing, endlessly paw-wounded, baldy butted weirdo that he is" - awwwwwwww!!

We got Samson just before lockdown hit so never made it to a Sighthound Sunday walk. I can't wait for them to start up again - he lights up when he (on the rare occasion he sees one) meets another grey rather than the usual aloof, non eye contact nervy shuffling. Soon hopefully..... 

I've found harness advice tends to be quite mixed. Mine is still cautious outside, generally more meek and ploddy than a puller. But as he's gained a bit of confidence he's had a few squirrel lunges that caught me by surprise resulting in scary backflips (him not me!) so I switched to a harness. Much easier if he does have a boisterous walk (I'm 50kg, he's 36kg!) and I don't worry about him damaging himself, or me damaging him if I have to pull him firmly away from something. 

Good luck with the little madam 

 

 

 

[lulah62]

Good info on the harness!

 

Also, amazing name - Samson! Such an appropriate grey name

[greysmom]

If you're considering a harness make sure it's a 3 or 5 point safety harness, as regular harnesses are *very* easy for a rambunctious dog to back out of.  Many people will continue to use the martingale collar along with a harness for added security, using either two leashes or one leash with a coupler situation attached to both the collar and harness at the same time.

Just FYI, in general, taken with a grain of salt  - females tend to be much more...  in your face, busy, into things, bossy.  Basically more like your girl!  And males tend to be more laid back and let life happen as it comes to them.  Exceptions abound, but your girl sounds very normal for her age and sex.  I agree with Don above that your boy *may* be happier as an only dog.  That being said, he will doubtless get used to having a sibling.  If you decide this girl isn't necessarily the right fit, talk with your group about getting a more calm female, or even another laid back (but confident) male for your next foster-with-intent.

If her food bowl is closer to the water bowl she may be guarding her food rather than the water.  If she's just guarding it because she can, then your solution should work.  I am generally of the opinion that dogs whould work out relationships on their own.  The exception, of course, is if there is any danger whatsoever to your boy.  And no one gets to bully anyone else in our house.  Redirection and time outs help when you have a very energetic younger dog come into the house.  We also make sure all our dogs get one-on-one time with us every day - a time when we are just paying attention to that dog.  Whether that's a special walk or play time, a good brushing session, or just some quiet time in another room.  

[Feefee147]

44 minutes ago, lulah62 said:

Good info on the harness!

 

Also, amazing name - Samson! Such an appropriate grey name

Part of his racing name, he turned up with it. He was incredibly shut down and introverted - couldn't have changed it even if we wanted to :-)

[Shannon]

On 8/20/2020 at 12:37 PM, greysmom said: