hound developing behavior problems

[doggone]

Hi GreyTalk forum,

I'm hoping to get some advice/support for some issues we're having with our hound. We adopted our grey a couple of years ago. It was the easiest adoption ever -- he never gave us any problems. ...at first. Our life with him has been the opposite trajectory from what I would have expected, in that as he's been with us longer he's shown more behavioral problems. We're working with a trainer who I think is quite good. But there have been some setbacks recently that are a little discouraging. 

Recently the issues have centered on getting him out to walk. He has an extremely persistent, extremely painful corn so we think a lot of his issues stem from pain. We've consulted with multiple vets about this and no one can find anything else wrong with him, so it is presumably all because of the corn. He often refuses to get up to go out and growls or snaps if we try to make him. We're both working with a qualified trainer/behaviorist and giving him galliprant for pain, hoping we can solve this problem. Yesterday we took him for laser surgery for his corn, and afterwards, when the drugs were wearing off, my husband tried to get his harness off (after getting his boot off, which probably hurt him even though my husband was trying to be careful) and our hound bit him. 

It's probably from pain and the surgery drugs. But I'm feeling very stressed out about this situation. I'm posting here in the hopes that someone here might have some words of encouragement/hope that we can make these issues get better. We recently had a kid. Like I said, we're working with a qualified trainer/behaviorist to keep everyone safe. So far our dog seems fine with the kid, and we've taken some steps to try to keep things that way and have begun planning more steps (like giving the hound a new space with a better escape path, figuring out where to put up gates, etc.). But ... it's stressful. We love our dog and our kid both. We are taking all the steps we can think of to try to make things good for both of them. And we want to help our dog's pain. We remember how sweet he was before his corn developed. I know this probably happened because of the surgery and pain. But frankly it's scary and I could use some hope right now.

Thanks all in advance.

[MaryJane]

It does sound like you are in a stressful situation and trying to make the best of it.  Few questions --

Before the surgery, were you able to manipulate his foot and touch the corn? How old is he now? Does he growl and snap everytime you want to take him out or is it more often at night? How long as the growling and snapping been going on? Have they taken x-rays of the leg with corn?

[palmettobug]

Others can speak to the corn issues, but I have experience w/the pain biting. My boy has problems getting things stuck in his feet, and then overreacting when I try to get them out. Vet exam and x-rays didn't show anything abnormal. The immediate solution is to put his basket muzzle on for walks and any time someone will be examining back there--although he doesn't react at others, go figure. I'm also pursuing cold laser, professional nail trims, chiro, CBD oil. I'm hoping with time and exposure to having GOOD things happen when someone is touching his feet, I can get him to stop reacting.

[FiveRoooooers]

Please see this thread about a fairly new procedure by Dr. Mike Guilliard to address those awful corns. This is the direct link to the article about the proc. My vet performed this surgery successfully  on a client a few months ago and from what I understand it was relatively simple and an easy recovery. Good luck!

[doggone]

2 hours ago, MaryJane said:

It does sound like you are in a stressful situation and trying to make the best of it.  Few questions --

Before the surgery, were you able to manipulate his foot and touch the corn? How old is he now? Does he growl and snap everytime you want to take him out or is it more often at night? How long as the growling and snapping been going on? Have they taken x-rays of the leg with corn?

Thanks for your response. He's 7, almost 8. In the mornings he's pretty eager for a walk, it's the afternoon/night walk that he resists most. In fact, we used to take him out late at night for last call, but had to give that up recently because he got so resistant to going. (I still feel weird about this because it seems like a long time for him to not pee, but he hasn't had any accidents and is still hard to get out at night when we try.) The growling and snapping has been building gradually for ... a while. I'm not exactly sure how long. Maybe a year? He's gotten multiple x-rays over the past year or so. At first the corn wasn't visible and we weren't sure what was causing the limp, so he was examined pretty extensively. There's never been any problem that showed up on the xrays, and the docs told us that if it was bone cancer that went untreated this long we would know it by now. So I guess we can at least provisionally rule that out. No one's found any fractures or any other condition yet either though. Things that we went through as possibilities include: arthritis, shoulder injury, bone cancer, back injury, and one animal surgeon suggested just amputating the toe without us even knowing what the problem was! (We refused.) 

He does typically let us manipulate his foot when he's standing, and touch the corn. Not when he's lying down, unless I"m putting musher's secret on his paws (because he knows he always gets tons of treats when I do that). I think there was one other occasion when the foot was really painful and he growled at us for touching it. I honestly can't remember what it was, maybe after one of hte times it was hulled? But it passed very quickly. 

[doggone]

2 hours ago, palmettobug said:

Others can speak to the corn issues, but I have experience w/the pain biting. My boy has problems getting things stuck in his feet, and then overreacting when I try to get them out. Vet exam and x-rays didn't show anything abnormal. The immediate solution is to put his basket muzzle on for walks and any time someone will be examining back there--although he doesn't react at others, go figure. I'm also pursuing cold laser, professional nail trims, chiro, CBD oil. I'm hoping with time and exposure to having GOOD things happen when someone is touching his feet, I can get him to stop reacting.

Thank you for sharing! I'm sorry you have to deal with this, although I'm also a little glad I'm not the only one! Since it sounds like you're pursuing a lot of options, I'm wondering--have you done much body handling training? How is it working out?

[doggone]

41 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

Please see this thread about a fairly new procedure by Dr. Mike Guilliard to address those awful corns. This is the direct link to the article about the proc. My vet performed this surgery successfully  on a client a few months ago and from what I understand it was relatively simple and an easy recovery. Good luck!

Thanks for letting me know about this!

[palmettobug]

I'm working to address his pain first. It's difficult as a single person to handle the feet and treat at the same time, maybe put some PB in the muzzle while I'm back there? When he is getting his nails trimmed and his cold laser treatment, I hold him in place and he doesn't move, lift a lip, snarl, whatever, so I think that eventually he may associate that with good things.

Anyhow, he did do some roaching this evening, which means he is feeling better. 

[greysmom]

If you're on Facebook, there's an excellent group called "Greyhounds with Corns" that has a lot of members in the same boat you are.  Corns are extremely painful and nothing really help take that pain away, so the Galliprant probably isn't helping very much.  It's like walking with a rock in your shoe that you can never get rid of.

The tenotomy procedure is the newest "it" thing in the corn world.  Many people have had it done with great success - pain free two weeks after surgery.  The issues I have with it are that it *is* a very new procedure - less than two years it's been commonly performed - so we really do not know what the long term outlook is for dogs who have had it.  Will the corn eventually grow back?  Will new corns form on adjacent toes due to the altered pressure on them from the surgery?  What happens then?  Do you just keep slicing the tendons in your dogs feet?  I just have questions.

BUT - If your dogs corn is really that painful and he's becoming aggressive about having it treated, it sounds like this might be worth it for you.  It is an easy surgery, and the recovery is relatively quick, with the results even quicker.  Dr Guillard is very willing to speak with vets and talk them through the procedure.

[doggone]

Just in case anyone looking at this thread wants an update...our dog's behavior problems have gotten a lot more manageable. There have been some tough moments with the new baby, but we've taken a few steps like setting up a baby gate to keep the dog and baby separate, and really working on training with the hound. His surgery helped his limp a lot and the corn hasn't come back yet, so although he still needs a therapaw boot he seems to be in less pain. We identified environmental factors that made him not want to go outside (mostly noise), and while we can't control the noise we've learned not to expect him to go out when it's happening, which has helped our ability to deal with this issue. And we've implemented a lot of bribery to make him like walks again. We basically started having it rain high value treats outside, and for the hardest walk--last call at night--we give him extra special treats after he crosses the threshold (and also use a bit to lure). So far these strategies combined have made our hound, and us, a lot happier. We're still trying to be pretty conscious of his boundaries, which have definitely shifted some over time since we got him--he has more boundaries now--but for now at least we're at a relatively stable equilibrium that seems to be working ok. Just wanted to share in case anyone else having problems with their greyhound wants to hear what has worked for us. 

[BatterseaBrindl]

Glad you have made progress and didn't give up.