The battle to get outside...

[NeuroticGrey]

I need help, greyhound friends. I adopted a 5 year old retired racer and I've had her for a week. She's lovely and we're going to be great friends, if I can just overcome the daily struggle to get her out of my building to pee. It begins when I put on her collar and she senses trouble ahead. She puts on the brakes when I open the door and getting down the hallway takes ages. Once we get to the elevator, she seems resigned to her fate. There's a final resistance when we get to the front door, then we're outside. We cross the street and she pees to much celebration! Then, we race back inside. During these ordeals I have tried the best treats I can think of to encourage her, but once she gets nervous she won't take any of them. I guess what really gets me is that she seems to resent me after each potty break. I feel like I've betrayed her trust every time we go out to pee. I initially tried short walks, but now we've taken a step back to just peeing and going back inside. 

Any suggestions? I want to build trust, but she has to go outside to pee. I'd try anything. 

[greysmom]

Time and patience.

I know it can be really frustrating when things aren't seeming to go well, but she's very (extremely) new to your home and her entire world has been turned upside down.  She's likely never been in a city or on a street before, never seen stairs or an elevator, never even been alone in her entire life.  She's anxious and scared and doesn't have the tools to respond other than to try and make it stop.  You need to keep building her trust and confidence and helping her settle into her new life.

Remain calm, don't speak sharply, and just let her be limited in her outdoor activities for a while.  Play with her in the your apartment, or, if she's not into that, just sit with her and read a book or magazine out loud.  Work on *simple* commands like "watch me" or "leave it" (lots of good videos on Youtube about how to teach both), and remember to use positive reinforcement only techniques.  Consider getting some Adaptil collars and diffusers to help her feel more settled at home and out and about.

Congratulations and good luck!

[Time4ANap]

Just to add to what Greysmom said, she also has likely never had to pee or poo while on a leash.  That is a huge adjustment for a greyhound.  If you can give her some space to go behind a bush or use a longer lead to give her a little distance between the two of you, you will likely see some improvement. This is all new for her, so with time and a new daily routine that stays the same, she will adjust accordingly. 

 Just be sure to securely hold the leash if giving her room.  You don't want her getting away due to a loose hold on the leash. 

[NeuroticGrey]

Can you think of any way for me to get her outside without damaging her trust? I have a harness for her and I've tried for confident/no nonsense when exiting. But, as we near the front door I'm basically marching her along and she's very unhappy. She's become more withdrawn and I think it is due to these trips outside to pee. It's like I'm marching her to the guillotine!

[Trudy]

Start small. It sounds like she's not wearing a collar in the house.

So do some fun things in the house, treat her, then put her collar on and treat her again. Take it off.

Try again, but leave the collar on longer. Then add in leashing up, but just walk around the apartment. Then maybe down the hall. Get her used to good things happening when she is collared and leashed up. 

Anybody else in the building have a dog? Maybe you can go out together and another 4 legged pal will help give her some confidence.

 

If you haven't yet, try hot dogs. If hot dogs are awesome to her, use them while getting her used to the routine to go out and potty. Even if she doesn't take them while going out. Give them to her when you get back in.

Unfortunately, you can't not take her out, so she's going to have to get out, even while working on making that routine easier for both of you.

[NeuroticGrey]

I bought and chopped up hotdogs that I only use when we put the harness and leash on. I did try walking her around the apartment, that went okay. I will try expanding that to the hallway and elevator, that's a good suggestion. Usually, she isn't interested in treats by the time we get to the door. Tonight, I drove her to a quiet, empty park to explore. She found the public restrooms and tried to get inside to hide. I dropped hot dog pieces in the grass to encourage her to explore, but no-go. I read a training article that suggested just letting her potty inside until she gets over it, but this doesn't seem practical. I'm already dreading getting her outside tomorrow morning. I'll keep working. 

[greysmom]

It's not going to be an overnight fix.  Slow and steady, time and patience.  Just keep working with her in short sessions several times a day.  

And no, she's not going to be happy about going out for a while, but it has to be done, so make it matter of fact and as fun/non-stressful as possible.  Keep it short, keep it simple, reward her for going potty with a happy-voice "good dog!!!" and back inside, where more treats happen.

Remember too, this isn't going to be your (or her) life forever.  She *will* get used to her new routine and setting - it just. takes. time! 

BUT if you feel unable to let her go at her own pace and deal with her quirks, you need to return her NOW, rather than later.  Some dogs just aren't apartment/city dogs, though most do quite well.  If you haven't contacted your adoption group about her issues, you should.  They may have some ideas to help her settle in, and they should know asap if you are thinking this isn't a challenge you can meet.  It's not a failure on your or her part, it just means this placement didn't work.  There will be a perfect greyhound for you and a perfect home for her out there.

[Feefee147]

Ahhh. I feel your frustration. 

I live about 50 seconds from a small green park. When we got our grey 4 months ago it took me 10 to 15 minutes from front door to entering the park!

It's slow progress, don't expect miracles instantly. I found that trying to drag him along or being stern with him was absolutely not the way to go - he just statued and panicked more. And if anyone was walking towards us, it was particularly noisy, kids were screaming or there were other dogs nearby it took even longer. 

I found gentle, calm coaxing was the way to go. And everything people say about about retired racers is true - it really is as though they have been chucked onto an alien planet with no clue. We built it up slowly, eventually he started trusting me and after a little while he even started taking treats from me outside. If you stick to a routine and do the same walk each day she WILL get used to it and you'll see tiny improvements. 

I also found once we'd formed some semblance of a bond that if he stopped and wouldn't move I would go and stand next to him, facing the way I wanted to move, chatted to him gently and he would take small steps with me. If he is nervous he will stick to my side. Now, 4 months later, he's a little devil outside - confident, prowling for small fluffies to stalk and comfortable enough to push all the boundaries!

Personally I absolutely wouldn't encourage her to go to the toilet inside - you'll be setting an unwanted trend there. 

Good luck and believe everyone when they say it DOES get better, it just takes ex-racers a bit longer than you'd think to adjust. 

 

 

[Feefee147]

On 6/8/2020 at 3:10 AM, Trudy said:

Start small. It sounds like she's not wearing a collar in the house.

So do some fun things in the house, treat her, then put her collar on and treat her again. Take it off.

Try again, but leave the collar on longer. Then add in leashing up, but just walk around the apartment. Then maybe down the hall. Get her used to good things happening when she is collared and leashed up. 

Anybody else in the building have a dog? Maybe you can go out together and another 4 legged pal will help give her some confidence.

 

If you haven't yet, try hot dogs. If hot dogs are awesome to her, use them while getting her used to the routine to go out and potty. Even if she doesn't take them while going out. Give them to her when you get back in.

Unfortunately, you can't not take her out, so she's going to have to get out, even while working on making that routine easier for both of you.

... and cheese! Good smelly cheese wafted under my chap's nose will usually draw his attention to me and get him doing what is needed. He's a stubborn lad but he would probably clean the flat, do some ironing and sew my buttons on for cheese ;-)

[NeuroticGrey]

I'm going to document this process for future grey adoptees with the same problem. Her foster parents came over with a confident grey and we had them walk out together. No problem! It was like magic. Evening walk, slightly less jittery. This morning, back to trembling like before.

But, new tactic...dried beef lung and using my body like lifevest. We cross to the park and she's shaking like a leaf, so I wrap my arms around her and we just hang out. My neighbors find this hilarious. We hang out until the trembling subsides, which is quite some time. Beef lung is like crack, but she won't take any until we're heading back in.

Tried coaxing up and down the hallway with hotdogs and hugs, no go. She'll only go out if I have my hand on her harness and march her out.

Tried desensitization by playing traffic noises when inside, she sleeps through it. I learned that 8 hours of NYC traffic playback makes ME anxious.

Our grey friend is coming back tomorrow and we're going to do it again. If you have any other tactics that were successful for you, send them my way. I will try it all!

[Feefee147]

14 hours ago, NeuroticGrey said:

I learned that 8 hours of NYC traffic playback makes ME anxious

Hahaha! I can imagine that would make anyone anxious :-D! 

It really is just time and patience, sadly no quick fix. Greyhounds are funny creatures, nothing like other breeds.

As she gradually trusts you (which she absolutely will) she'll slowly start to be able to cope with scary situations and you'll be able to build it up.

The other thing I do (whilst looking bonkers outdoors) is chat away a LOT to my grey. I find soothing chatter outdoors keeps him engaged 'with me' and stops him receding into a nervous statue. 

How is she getting on indoors now?

 

[NeuroticGrey]

She's great getting in doors, it's like a switch flips and she's relaxed and will take treats. I am concerned about her running down people exiting the building in her anxiety to get back indoors, but hey, we're working on it.

I wanted to report out on my new tactic. After trying all of the above suggestions, I purchased as many episodes of Cesar Millan training a fearful dog that I could find and had myself a binge. Worked on projecting a calm, assertive energy. Deep breathing, pictured myself as a powerful warrior empress. Put on her harness and leash and led her down the hallway. She balked in the same places, I didn't look at her or talk to her, just kept going. At several points, I had to put my hand on her harness to keep her moving. We get outside, she'll be trembling, but to my eyes, not as badly. We pee (well, she does) and if it's our first/last venture of the day in cool weather, I take her for a short, 15 minute walk. 

On the walk, she begins to relax. When she's not relaxed and stalling, I don't look at her or talk to her, but look straight into the distance and continue at a slow, steady pace. A couple of times I've had to put my hand on her harness and move her along. If she points back the other direction, we do a little circle. Several times her ears popped up and she sniffed, which is a good sign. She's very chill on our way back and only starts pulling a bit when we get closer to the building. 

Unfortunately, her sweet little anxious mind doesn't recall that we had this chill experience the next time we go out, and she's fearful again. But you know what? I think we're making progress. And given all of this new construction during the day on my street, when she does adjust, she'll be able to walk through a war zone without flinching. 

[mansbestfriend]

Hi NeuroticGrey. With fearful behaviour in dogs (and people), relieving it in gradual steps is a realistic expectation. I'd suggest looking for the help of a behaviourist/trainer who uses Positive Reinforcement type meathods and has a science-backed understanding of dog behaviour. He/she can assess your and your dog's situation directly, and plan for the benefit of the dog now and ongoing. Peace. 

[NeuroticGrey]

An update on this situation - I connected with a pet behaviorist for support. She suggested leashing up your grey well in advance of the walk and even letting her drag the leash around until it's time to go. She also suggests, since my dog likes car rides, to get her in the car and take her someplace else to walk. I had been doing some of this, but am now committed to taking her someplace each evening. She suggests going a different way when exiting my building, although is tough... there's really only one direction to go that is away from traffic and towards peaceful parks and trails. Most of all, she emphasized that as my greyhound become more attached to me, she'll look to me to what is scary and what isn't and begin to let go of her fear. 

This is the third week since I adopted her and the progress I've noticed is that she rarely stops in the hallway on the way to the door. She'll take treats going down the hallway and sometimes right in the entry before going outside. She still trembles from anxiety, but it is less severe. In the morning when it's cooler, we go for a short walk, and while she freezes and wants to turn back frequently, it is easier to get her moving again. Once we get down to the riverfront, she seems to enjoy herself, it's just getting there that's challenging. In the evening, at parks, she rarely freezes. She perks her ears up at parks sometimes, but generally not. Any outdoor trip between morning and evening is strictly a potty break, outside to pee, and straight back in. 

[HeyRunDog]

Well done  It sounds like you and her are making good progress. It could be that there are certain sounds that only occur in the day that she doesn't like but she will get used to them. As your behaviourist advised, if you stay confident and don't react before the problem happens and as she continues to bond with you, she'll see that you aren't worried so she won't be.

It took Grace two months not to be spooked by traffic and nearly two years not to come running inside when the neighbours children are playing and screaming in their gardens, and we're still working on the sound of a football being kicked, but with time, patience and humour we'll overcome that as well.

[NeuroticGrey]

Here's another tip from my pet behaviorist that showed some improvement. If you also have a fearful grey like mine, try stringing two leashes together or getting a long lead. Standing outside in the green space across from my apartment, where she is generally very fearful, with her on a 12 foot lead was a big improvement. With this much space, she was more interested in moving towards me instead of straining back toward the building. This was also the first time that she would pick up treats (hotdog slices) from the grass in this area. She became so interested that she took me on a little tour of the space before we went indoors.

Also helpful, getting to know the dogs in the building. She didn't even sniff them the first 200,000 times we went outside, but now she "knows" some of the dogs from frequent contact. They're buddies, or at least acquaintances. Amazingly, she will now walk up to them, do a sniff, and occasionally even pop an ear up.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Time and patience ....

[NeuroticGrey]

I just wanted to close the loop on this for anyone else struggling. We got through it! It took at least a month, and it felt like a very LONG month, but we got there. My hound goes outside now and loves her morning walk. She still kinda hates going out at night, because there are some dicks that race their souped up cars and motorcycles through our neighborhood. When my lease is up, I may look into renting a townhouse in a quieter part of town, but she may be completely bombproof by then. I hope so, I like this location and moving is the worst.

[HeyRunDog]

Well done to you both.

[cleptogrey]

NICE PROGRESSION! Stick with your behaviorist and if there is a regression to contact him/her for a variation of techniques.  It's nice to read the growth and progression.