Essential oils (externally) for flea & tick preventation safe for Greys?

[WHanson12]

Does anyone have knowledge about which essential oils applied (diluted, of course) externally to repel fleas & ticks are safe for use on Greyhounds? I perused the internet & only found that cedar oil should not be used on Greys, as it's way too potent & potentially poisonous to them. Also, is it risky if the essential oil sprayed on their coat & feet are licked after it has dried or soaked in? Last summer I started using a spray product made by Kin + Kind to repel ticks & fleas, which seemed to work well. The active ingredients include the following essential oils: peppermint, cinnamon, rosemary, & thyme. Honestly, it didn't occur to me before that there may be some essential oils that are contraindicated for use on Greys. Our Girls don't like being sprayed with anything, but I don't want to use poison & chemicals on or in them when there are safe, natural alternatives. Anyone have experience with external use of essential oils on Greys? Thank you!     

[KF_in_Georgia]

I don't know that essential oils are effective, but I'll leave that discussion to someone else. (I once fostered a dog who'd been on garlic for months to prevent fleas. The Capstar I gave her killed hundreds of fleas.)

I just wanted to issue a warning: Rosemary apparently lowers the seizure threshold in dogs as well as in humans. https://www.epilepsysociety.org.uk/complementary-therapies OR https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2017/07/10/pet-seizures.aspx

I know of one dog who experienced seizures after ingesting treats with rosemary, and there is a possibility that an externally applied essential oil may be a problem, too. I'm not saying "Don't use them." I'm just saying  be aware of this potential complication and keep and eye out for it.

[WHanson12]

KF in Georgia: thanks so much for your response & info. I was not aware of the issues with rosemary--I will review the articles you included. What products do you use on your Greys to repel fleas & ticks? Thanks again!

[cleptogrey]

Fleas and ticks are nothing to be played with. There are enough preventatives out there that you can find one that works in your location that you feel comfortable with.   tick borne diseases are not pleasant to deal with. And who wants tapeworm?

The talks that I have gone to re: essential oils did stress how sensitive dog can be to them and how easy it is to use them incorrectly.

I use peppermint around the perimeter of my property as a feline repellant. They hate it. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by cleptogrey

[macoduck]

I attended a seminar presented by Melissa Shelton DVM on the use of essential oils for animals. She was amazing. Years ago she was associated with Young Living oils and left because of inaccuracies in oil purity.  doTerra had purity issues too.  She refused to endorse them any longer and started her own company.  She lectures at veterinary universities in the US, Australia and Europe. She assists zoos in treating large animals. Her products are cat safe too.

https://www.animaleo.info/   Her website will explain the safe use of essential oils in depth. You'll see which oils can be diffused, ingested, rubbed on, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/animalEO/    Use her Facebook page search engine regarding flea control.

This is a small family-run company that is very busy, so emails may not be answered quickly. Facebook posted questions may take a few days or so to be answered.

One BIG thing I learned from this is to not try and blend my own concoction of single oils.  Although she does sell single oils, your best bet is to use her formulated blends for the best response for your pets.

No pyramid sales schemes with this company either. 

I am a very satisfied customer and I have happier dogs because of Dr Shelton!

WHanson12, PM me if you have any questions about Dr Shelton.

 

 

[greysmom]

You should not use essential oils if you have cats in your house.  They are extremely sensitive to them and most are poisonous to felines.  I definitely wouldn't just make something up DIY. 

Fleas, ticks, and parasitic worms are nothing to be toyed with.  They can cause serious and debilitating diseases if not effectively eradicated.   They can and will destroy your dogs organs and tissues from the inside out, and mostly they will shrug off non-lethal treatments and go right back to work.  Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's effective.

[HeyRunDog]

2 hours ago, greysmom said:

Fleas, ticks, and parasitic worms are nothing to be toyed with.  They can cause serious and debilitating diseases if not effectively eradicated.   They can and will destroy your dogs organs and tissues from the inside out, and mostly they will shrug off non-lethal treatments and go right back to work.  Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's effective.

....or safe.

Whatever you use for flea/tick or worming treatment it is a poison of some form, it has to be otherwise it wouldn't kill the little blighters, and it is balancing act of administering enough to be effective without harming the dog.

At least with the commercial treatments from the vets / pet store they have been tested and meet a set standard. I know there have been stories of ill effects on some dogs from these treatments but overall the number of affected animals is very small but it grabs the media's attention whereas the alternative remedies don't. 

[macoduck]

Just restating that Dr Shelton's animalEO oils are cat safe. I wouldn't trust any other brand. You can read about cat use on her FB and website.

But also agreeing with greysmom. You need the Rx meds to prevent parasites. Dr Shelton's oils for dealing with fleas and biting flies are for external case to that use.

[NeylasMom]

15 hours ago, WHanson12 said:

Our Girls don't like being sprayed with anything, but I don't want to use poison & chemicals on or in them when there are safe, natural alternatives. Anyone have experience with external use of essential oils on Greys? Thank you!     

Except there aren't, at least to my knowledge. I have yet to hear of a natural remedy that can effectively repel/kill ticks. I hate applying chemicals as well, but the risks of TBDs to my dogs, and me as well (I have had ticks move onto me from my dogs) is much greater and more immediate than any potential risk from a preventative. 

 We use Seresto and are thrilled with it's performance. And my vet was very comfortable with its safety. Supposedly a dog could ingest one of the collars and be fine.

[KF_in_Georgia]

This is a Bravecto household. I've used Bravecto on four dogs and not had so much as an upset stomach from any of them. (And a couple of the dogs were ones that had diarrhea--caused by the flavoring--with Heartgard Plus)

We do Interceptor monthly to prevent heartworm; I have my Google calendar set to warn me the first of every month. Then it reminds me every 12 weeks about the Bravecto. (Actually, it warns me in 10 weeks to check whether I need to reorder, then reminds me to give it two weeks later.)

[WHanson12]

Thanks to everyone for your responses--please excuse my delayed acknowledgement to y'alls. I haven't been home much since I posted a couple days ago.

To those of you who use the oral & topical (including the collars) chemicals for flea & tick control, I would ask you if you've read the product inserts--all the fine print. I have read the ones I've tried, as well as reviewing information from other users of these products: Nexgard, Frontline, Seresto collar, to name a few. Our current  2 Greys had adverse reactions using those products, including severe lethargy (Seresto), local & overall skin irritation, & increased neurological "events" (not full blown seizures thankfully) in one of them. All of those products warn that they can cause neurological disturbances & effects, so if your Grey experiences seizures or other neurological disturbances, you shouldn't be using these products. I begrudgingly give our Girls monthly Heartgard poison until I find a safer alternative. How can you assume that administering these chemicals, even in small, "safe" amounts (according to the manufacturers & the vets who promote such products), doesn't accumulate in the dogs' systems, including their tissues & livers, over the many years of use? Don't get me wrong--I'm not one of those "everything's gotta be organic & natural" fanatics regarding chemicals & drugs. As a retired Certified Veterinary Technician with 13+ years experience with various types of veterinarians & as a Greyhound adopter for 26 years, I've encountered a few "things" along the way & have reviewed lots of information on various dog & Greyhound related subjects & have reached out to various Greyhound veterinary experts over the years (Dr. Couto, Dr. Stack). I will never claim to "know it all" or be as knowledgeable as a Veterinarian. But I do have common sense & an open mind to learn about healthier alternatives for my Greyhounds to hopefully lessen their chances of developing the nasty diseases that Greys are so predisposed to.  Thank you again for all the feedback.       

[WHanson12]

On 5/28/2019 at 11:15 PM, macoduck said:

I attended a seminar presented by Melissa Shelton DVM on the use of essential oils for animals. She was amazing. Years ago she was associated with Young Living oils and left because of inaccuracies in oil purity.  doTerra had purity issues too.  She refused to endorse them any longer and started her own company.  She lectures at veterinary universities in the US, Australia and Europe. She assists zoos in treating large animals. Her products are cat safe too.

https://www.animaleo.info/   Her website will explain the safe use of essential oils in depth. You'll see which oils can be diffused, ingested, rubbed on, etc.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/animalEO/    Use her Facebook page search engine regarding flea control.

This is a small family-run company that is very busy, so emails may not be answered quickly. Facebook posted questions may take a few days or so to be answered.

One BIG thing I learned from this is to not try and blend my own concoction of single oils.  Although she does sell single oils, your best bet is to use her formulated blends for the best response for your pets.

No pyramid sales schemes with this company either. 

I am a very satisfied customer and I have happier dogs because of Dr Shelton!

WHanson12, PM me if you have any questions about Dr Shelton.

 

 

To Macoduck: THANK YOU for your response & all the info. I will certainly review Dr. Shelton's information & products. I would not attempt to blend my own concoction of oils--I leave that up to those with the expertise. Thanks for the PM offer. I will do that in the next several days, but it will be using my husband's FB account (Frank Fork) & not under my name.  Wendy

[NeylasMom]

Yep, I've read the info and no, I'm not convinced that over time they may not contribute to an eventual cancer or other disease, but so could a million other things in our environment including the pesticides and fertilizers a ton of my neighbors apply in the name of having a pretty green (ie. boring to me) yard. I do what I can to keep my dogs out of those yards, but I'm not going to stop walking them, which they both enjoy and get physical benefits from, because there's a risk that a long time down the road they'll develop an issue.

It's all risk versus reward and I choose to prevent the very real and more importantly immediate risk of tick borne diseases to both me and them rather than worry about an unproven and potentially non-existent risk way down the road. And honestly, both ofy greyhounds so far have died of bone cancer. Could chemicals have contributed, sure, but we all know there's a genetic component to osteo in our breed and I doubt anything I could have done would have changed them getting it.

And again , maybe you live in an area where your exposure to ticks isn't great, in which case, fantastic for you (be grateful!), but that isn't us. We're exposed to them daily and again, pre-Seresto I've had ticks move from my dogs onto me and attach while sleeping and I've had to be tested for TBDs twice now. Unfortunately I can't wear a Seresto collar so my dogs do instead. The nice thing about Seresto is it kills ticks on contact so it keeps me safer as well. I'm incredibly open to use a natural remedy when there's one that's proven effective. Until then, we use Seresto. 

So to each his own, but when you say there are safer alternatives, I have to disagree, at least when it comes to ticks. I suspect folks who use the natural remedies (successfully) don't have a high exposure to ticks in the first place. In which case, by all means, skip the chemical preventatives. 

By the way, the other nice thing about Seresto, if your dog does have a reaction, you have the ability to take it off and bath them and not have ongoing issues. The first time mine wore them, I only put the collar on for an hour or so, then the next day a few, and then when I felt comfortable they weren't going to react I left them on.

Edited May 30, 2019 by NeylasMom

[WHanson12]

NeylasMom,

I agree with your first paragraph above, except that the manufacturer's literature isn't the ultimate source for long term effects from the use of their products. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that. You're basically correct in that we're all free to take the risks we want with our pets/Greys based on the information we're provided &/or researched on our own. And we cannot influence or dictate the behavior or actions of others in reference to how that affects our precious Greys, pets or us in general . When my Greys had adverse reactions to the Seresto collars, I contacted the manufacturer who was very interested in documenting this data & they advised me to take them off, do not put them back on, & explained to me that within several days, those negative effects should wear of, which fortunately they did. I have had Greys die of osteosarcoma, ITP (non-responsive to conventional protocols for Greys), polyarthritis & chronic pancreatitis, & lymphoma (also non-responsive to conventional chemo protocols for Greys). It's heartbreaking to lose any of our precious Greys, dogs or pets, no matter what the reason.   

Thanks again.

[WHanson12]

2 hours ago, WHanson12 said:

To Macoduck: THANK YOU for your response & all the info. I will certainly review Dr. Shelton's information & products. I would not attempt to blend my own concoction of oils--I leave that up to those with the expertise. Thanks for the PM offer. I will do that in the next several days, but it will be using my husband's FB account (Frank Fork) & not under my name.  Wendy

Macoduck: As we're all aware, I'm no "Techie," so if the PM you & I referenced above is not on FaceBook, then please excuse my ignorance of this forum & platform. I'll figure out in the coming days how to PM you on this platform. Thanks for your patience & understanding!  Wendy

[cleptogrey]

12 hours ago, NeylasMom said:

 

By the way, the other nice thing about Seresto, if your dog does have a reaction, you have the ability to take it off and bath them and not have ongoing issues. The first time mine wore them, I only put the collar on for an hour or so, then the next day a few, and then when I felt comfortable they weren't going to react I left them on.

my whippet had a reaction, bayer refunded the cost of the product and removal of the active ingredient was KISS....a bath in dawn dish detergent. that removed the active ingredient and also btw dawn kills fleas. the reaction was loss of hair and itching absolutely nothing neurological. not that much hair was lost since i got on top of it quickly. my greyhounds successfully wore Seresto collars with out a problem and it kept them flea and tick free in san antonio- talk about pests~! i agree w/ jen 100%, it's much safer for us humans as well using a good product. 

i haven't used but a chemically sensitive friend used diatomaceous earth. i do not know the side effects or type she used but she was pleased. but her dogs barely left her yard.

[greysmom]

As far as I know there is no scientifically supported research that promotes essential oils as a preventative for the many parasites (and other bugs and biting insects) that is as effective as commercially available products.

Would I rather there be other alternatives???  Yes, of course.  But I'm not going to put them at risk of something that *might* happen vs something that *will* happen without that chemical protection.

 

[BatterseaBrindl]

Here in Ontario we are limited to chewable Bravecto for ticks. We are in an extremely  high tick area.

i see ticks every single day  and just do not have the confidence that 'natural' oils etc will be effective. 

I have managed to get the Preventic collars for the past few years for either Australia or the UK but this year  my Australian order was refused entry at Canada Customs. I have never had any reactions from those collars.

I have now gotten the Seresto collars from the UK and am confident they will take care of the ticks but I will do as Neylas Mom suggested and put them on for an hour or so daily for 2-3 days.

 

[krissy]

Remember that water is a poison in sufficient quantity, and has a chemical formula despite being natural. Natural things are not always safe. Chemicals are not always unsafe. 

Would I give my dogs heartworm or tick meds if there was no risk of getting diseases that could be life threatening or life altering? No, of course not. These medications are chemicals and although very safe and well researched, they do have some risks. However, when I weigh out the risks of these conditions against the risks of the medications, I'm going to pick medications. There are no safer, equally efficacious alternatives, otherwise we'd be using them.

It basically comes down to personal risk assessment. Your choice may be that heartworm and ticks are less of a concern to you than giving the medications, but if heartworm and ticks ARE a big concern to you then unfortunately your effective options are to move somewhere with lower risk, or use medications like Bravecto, Simparica, Nexgard, Seresto, etc. The reality is you assume some risk to your dog regardless of your choice, you just have to decide which choice you're most comfortable with.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Thanks Krissy...exactly my thoughts !

[macoduck]

On 5/30/2019 at 8:22 PM, WHanson12 said:

Macoduck: As we're all aware, I'm no "Techie," so if the PM you & I referenced above is not on FaceBook, then please excuse my ignorance of this forum & platform. I'll figure out in the coming days how to PM you on this platform. Thanks for your patience & understanding!  Wendy

To PM me here on Greytalk, click on my profile and you'll find where to message me.

To reach me via Facebook (which I check more often), my name there is Macoduck Greys. I haven't been on FB much this week while I've been at Mountain Hounds, but I'll keep an eye out for any message from Frank Fork.

~Ducky in NC