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I agree with your vet.

 

I don't know of any studies per se, but just from using it on several of my dogs, I've had to nearly always shorten the dosing time. Plus, there are several drugs like gabapentin, that greyhounds rend to metabolize faster than other breeds.

 

My current pain reliever of choice is codeine sulfate (I think the pills are 30mg). I do still usually have to dose every 6-8 hours, but it does appear to be effective without too much sedation.

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

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Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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I agree with your vet.

 

I don't know of any studies per se, but just from using it on several of my dogs, I've had to nearly always shorten the dosing time. Plus, there are several drugs like gabapentin, that greyhounds rend to metabolize faster than other breeds.

 

My current pain reliever of choice is codeine sulfate (I think the pills are 30mg). I do still usually have to dose every 6-8 hours, but it does appear to be effective without too much sedation.

 

Does codeine sulfate make the dogs a sleepy as Tramadol?

 

And I have a question re dosing Gabapentin. I'm currently weaning Tracker off the Tramadol. I'm not sure how much it did for him, if anything. So I'm left with Gaba. Currently he gets 1 300mg pill in the am, 1 300mg pill inthe afternoon, and 2 300mg pills before bed (this last one we just raised from 1 pill, thinking if he gets more tired initially on the nighttime dose it's fine since he's horizontal anyway). I'll go up to 2 300mg pills this afternoon (this is all under vet supervision and approval) since his hind end is very tremble-y when he comes back from a (very mellow) walk. How far can one take this?? Eventually I'll have to add second 300mg pill in the am, too, I figure, and then what? Would it be better to add codeine, say, or keep going up with Gaba until he's clearly better?

 

Also, can too much Gaba trigger nighttime peeing episodes if he gets too "relaxed"? He had a recent 6 week period of lots of nighttime peeing events which he's fortunately ended.

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I have gone up to 600mg per dose (but I only did it twice a day), however I think you have the room to do so. Dosing with gaba can go much higher and 100mg at a time increments works. I know from experience that gaba produced a withdrawl symptom on Kasey. He would actually shake and chatter when it was wearing off. I always tried to beat this timing. That's the only episode I've been exposed to. I would try to add in another pain reliever if you can. What else have you tried? Kasey was also on a very low dose of prednisone. Is that an option for you?

Proudly owned by:
10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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I have gone up to 600mg per dose (but I only did it twice a day), however I think you have the room to do so. Dosing with gaba can go much higher and 100mg at a time increments works. I know from experience that gaba produced a withdrawl symptom on Kasey. He would actually shake and chatter when it was wearing off. I always tried to beat this timing. That's the only episode I've been exposed to. I would try to add in another pain reliever if you can. What else have you tried? Kasey was also on a very low dose of prednisone. Is that an option for you?

 

Tried nothing else, this is all new. The only thing with prednisone might be more urination, which I really don't want to trigger, as he's been already pretty "trigger happy" (beginning stages of kidney disease). Although if it were a super low dose, maybe he wouldn't have to pee more?

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Larry (will be 12 in Feb) has a lot of back end weakness and trembling due mostly to LS. He gets 100mg Tramadol in the morning and afternoon, and 50mg at night, and 300mg Gaba 3 x day -- what I think really helps though is he gets 3.75mg (1/2 a 7 mg pill) of Meloxicam every morning. He was on carprofen but developed stomach issues so we switched to the Meloxicam. He also gets a chiro treatment every 4-5 weeks.

 

He is, however, showing a decline just in the past week or so (just had his chiro yesterday) so hoping it's just temporary :(

Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway

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Does codeine sulfate make the dogs a sleepy as Tramadol?

 

And I have a question re dosing Gabapentin. I'm currently weaning Tracker off the Tramadol. I'm not sure how much it did for him, if anything. So I'm left with Gaba. Currently he gets 1 300mg pill in the am, 1 300mg pill inthe afternoon, and 2 300mg pills before bed (this last one we just raised from 1 pill, thinking if he gets more tired initially on the nighttime dose it's fine since he's horizontal anyway). I'll go up to 2 300mg pills this afternoon (this is all under vet supervision and approval) since his hind end is very tremble-y when he comes back from a (very mellow) walk. How far can one take this?? Eventually I'll have to add second 300mg pill in the am, too, I figure, and then what? Would it be better to add codeine, say, or keep going up with Gaba until he's clearly better?

 

Also, can too much Gaba trigger nighttime peeing episodes if he gets too "relaxed"? He had a recent 6 week period of lots of nighttime peeing events which he's fortunately ended.

You might consider asking your vet about trying amantadine.
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We've seen good arthritis relief on several dogs with once to twice a day dosing (2x in cold weather), never had a dog appeared stoned on oral dosing alone.

Beth, Petey (8 September 2018- ), and Faith (22 March 2019). Godspeed Patrick (28 April 1999 - 5 August 2012), Murphy (23 June 2004 - 27 July 2013), Leo (1 May 2009 - 27 January 2020), and Henry (10 August 2010 - 7 August 2020), you were loved more than you can know.

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Despite its name codeine sulfate is an opioid, just like tramadol. None of my dogs have experienced a heavy sedative effect for either drug, but reactions are very individual to each dog. The spaciness will go away after a few days to a week of dosing.

 

I would also talk to your vet about getting some 100mg gabapentin so you can go up in mgs more slowly and customize it more to his needs. Gabapentin has a *huge* dosing range, so the doses you mentioned aren't necessarily too large. The other option is dosing every 6 hours instead of every 8 hours.

 

If he has hind end weakness or LS or any kind of nerve issue affecting his back half that would account for his inability to hold his pee. Getting control of his nerve pain/issue will help with that.

Chris - Mom to: Lilly, Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora)

35764734494_93de5b5963_b.jpg

Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom

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Which drug are you talking about? Tramadol?

Yes, sorry, Tramadol is what I've used for arthritis with sucess.

 

I also had a dog on Gabapetine with no ill effects, but that was for a neurological issue.

Edited by PatricksMom

Beth, Petey (8 September 2018- ), and Faith (22 March 2019). Godspeed Patrick (28 April 1999 - 5 August 2012), Murphy (23 June 2004 - 27 July 2013), Leo (1 May 2009 - 27 January 2020), and Henry (10 August 2010 - 7 August 2020), you were loved more than you can know.

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Metacam is the only other thing I can think of for pain that I've used with great results, but yes affects the liver/kidneys.

 

Fwiw, i used prednisone for 8 years, and Kasey always had opposite side effects. He lost weight (was never a big eater as it was), and never drank much. But he was on 5-10 mg a day that I can remember, just enough to keep allergies at bay. The vet did say it probably helped keep the LS in check until he needed gabapentin. Ask about it. Never know til you try. The only issue is since it's a steroid, you need a weaning off period before you can try anything else.

Proudly owned by:
10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Metacam is the only other thing I can think of for pain that I've used with great results, but yes affects the liver/kidneys.

 

Fwiw, i used prednisone for 8 years, and Kasey always had opposite side effects. He lost weight (was never a big eater as it was), and never drank much. But he was on 5-10 mg a day that I can remember, just enough to keep allergies at bay. The vet did say it probably helped keep the LS in check until he needed gabapentin. Ask about it. Never know til you try. The only issue is since it's a steroid, you need a weaning off period before you can try anything else.

 

I'm too worried about his kidneys for Metacam, but perhaps the Codeine or Amantadine might be options. About steroids: I heard they can cause increased urination, not something Tracker (or I) needs after those awful 5-6 weeks with 3-4 times having to go out at night... but maybe a low dose wouldn't cause this?

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I'm too worried about his kidneys for Metacam, but perhaps the Codeine or Amantadine might be options. About steroids: I heard they can cause increased urination, not something Tracker (or I) needs after those awful 5-6 weeks with 3-4 times having to go out at night... but maybe a low dose wouldn't cause this?

Regarding nsaids-you can try Galliprant-more renal friendly.

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I'm too worried about his kidneys for Metacam, but perhaps the Codeine or Amantadine might be options. About steroids: I heard they can cause increased urination, not something Tracker (or I) needs after those awful 5-6 weeks with 3-4 times having to go out at night... but maybe a low dose wouldn't cause this?

Never had a urination problem when on the pred. My tanker truck never ever ever had an accident in the house over the course of his life or on the 8 years on pred. He would pee a long time during first out but never ever had an issue otherwise. Won't know how Tracker reacts until you try. I haven't tried Codeine or Amantadine so I'm afraid I'm not much help in that dept. They are all worth asking about to give a little extra relief to your pup I think.

Proudly owned by:
10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Regarding nsaids-you can try Galliprant-more renal friendly.

 

Is that fairly new? Do you think it really is better for seniors or just a bunch of hype? It's darned pricey, but that is what we used for my lurcher girl's last months of life. Seemed to help her as well or better than meloxicam or carprofen.

 

I would also talk to your vet about getting some 100mg gabapentin so you can go up in mgs more slowly and customize it more to his needs. Gabapentin has a *huge* dosing range, so the doses you mentioned aren't necessarily too large. The other option is dosing every 6 hours instead of every 8 hours.

 

My personal belief is that every 6 hours works better than 8 hours. That opinion is based on 1) using it for two of my dogs & watching their response and 2) my personal use of it. Dogs and humans can metabolize drugs very differently, but my dogs' responses seemed to echo my own. Beneficial effects of gabapentin start to diminish before the 8 hours mark and it takes a while before the next dose kicks in. For me, the doses need to be less than 6 hours apart. Had a neurologist suggest taking it 5 times a day, every 4 hours during the day & a double dose as bedtime. This approach made a big difference in how I felt throughout the day, ending or at very least greatly reducing roller coaster of discomfort that had been going on.

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