Stomach Problem?

[JustJamAA]

Hi,

 

Just looking for some advice - first things first - I have booked an appointment with the vet.

 

If my dog deteriorates, or shows any signs that her discomfort has turned to pain, or gives me any reason at all to rush her appointment - she will be taken in for emergency care.

 

Currently she isn't urgent, so I've just booked a standard appointment and I'm keeping a close eye on her.

 

Anyone shed any light from their experience as to what might be wrong with my dog?

 

Her symptoms are;

 

• more than usual - pray dog/bowing positioning (making me think stomach or back ache)
• she's been excessively licking her paws to the point where she's received treatment for them
• laying on her back, turning her head to point towards her tummy/back and whinning - almost like she's trying to reach a spot she can't get to
• slightly soft poo but nothing terrible and not all the time. No vomiting which I've been closely watching for, but some retching although infrequent and mild
• restlessness and whinning - but it's not constant. She can be laid out on sofa and just suddenly side twist and whine
• She occassionally snorts sometimes as well
• She seems more tired - although she will get up and run around and play, she just gives up quicker and lays down more than normal but on the other hand she still gets excited and races round when she's up for it
• the whinning is what has me worried, when she does it, it does seem to be because she's uncomfortable.

Treatment received so far

• Vet visit 1 :4 weeks ago: Reason - chewed paws & she was itchy: antibiotics, pain relief, bandaging, cream for her paws. (Her paws are much better)
• Vet visit 2: 3 weeks ago: Reason: visible sighting of worms in her poo and she was itchy (she'd had advocate prior to this): De-worming and flea treatment - panacur and droncit, first visit to vets (3 weeks ago)
• Vet visit 3: 1 week ago: reason - still itching: Given advocate

Itching has lessened but she still seems not herself.

 

For stomach issue the first thing to rule out is parasites, we've done that now. The live worms may have been a result of her previous advocate treatment (but I can't be sure exactly when she had that, as she's recently adopted)

 

There is something wrong and I know this is a bit wishy washy but thought might be worth asking - even if it's just for possible causes, that way I can read up and when I take her to the vet, we can have a discussion where I'm not just nodding my head with no idea what the vet is saying!

 

She's fed on a grain free, hypoallergenic kibble and wet food - but she does have treats. One being a greenies dental chew (which I will stop giving now as this is the only treat that is more suspect than the others). Mostly for treats she gets cooked chicken or ham.

 

 

Many thanks for any ideas or suggestions. I am worried about her.

 

xx

[NeylasMom]

My guess is you haven't gotten rid of the worms. Especially if she is relatively newly retired and they were hooks. If so, search for hookworm in this forum and you will see the difficulty of getting rid of an infestation. Everything you are describing fits with worms.

 

ETA: Very easy to get a false negative on a fecal so I wouldn't rely in that either.

Edited October 15, 2018 by NeylasMom

[JustJamAA]

My guess is you haven't gotten rid of the worms. Especially if she is relatively newly retired and they were hooks. If so, search for hookworm in this forum and you will see the difficulty of getting rid of an infestation. Everything you are describing fits with worms.

 

ETA: Very easy to get a false negative on a fecal so I wouldn't rely in that either.

thanks for responding. I will read up on them more.

 

She has gained weight since being with us and since the worming treatment and her appetite is fine - in fact she loves her food and will take anything on offer. I thought the worms were gone due to her weight gain and healthy appetite.

[greysmom]

Probably just hiding. You don't say where you are located, but if it's anywhere in the USA, you most likely still have hooks. The strain in dogs coming from the SE tracks is *extremely* treatment resistant, and requires sometimes 6 months or more of dosing to really clear.

 

Make sure you are keeping your yard, or the area where she poops, very clean, so she doesn't reinfect herself. And a monthly preventative once she's out of active treatment. My vet recommends three clear fecal tests - one at 2 weeks post treatment, at 2 months, and then again 4 to 6 months out.

 

If you're not in the states, I would probably still retreat for worms, even if she has a negative fecal. I would cut out the Greenies as they can often cause upset (for whatever reason). Next on the list is a food allergy or intolerance, which might also cause itchy paws.

 

Something else to consider is a light bout of pancreatitis. Ham is a really rich and sometimes fatty meat, and can set off some dogs systems. Many high end "grain free" foods are also higher in fat as it helps with palatability. Some greyhounds are sensitive to rich, high protein foods and do better on lower protein diets. Dog are omnivores like humans, not obligate carnivores like cats, and need some source of carbs for fuel.

 

Good luck!

[Time4ANap]

As far as the itching, are you in an area with a high concentration of ragweed? If so, this may be the issue. She may require a stronger allergy med, cleaning / wiping of the paws after walks and going outside. When we lived in Central IL, Rocket had a ragweed allergy that was so bad we had to use huge doses of Prednisolone to get it under control. The vet said that he had his lifetime limit of Pred that summer.

 

You can check your zip code on pollen.com to see what is in the air and on the ground in the way of strong pollens and allergens at any given time.

 

As for the other issues, I'm in agreement with the others that you most likely are still dealing with hookworms. Remember that a clear fecal test only means that one sample was clean, not that you are rid of the issue. The current hookworms are very resistant to treatment and are taking many months to get rid of.

[RaineysMom]

 

Something else to consider is a light bout of pancreatitis. Ham is a really rich and sometimes fatty meat, and can set off some dogs systems. Many high end "grain free" foods are also higher in fat as it helps with palatability. Some greyhounds are sensitive to rich, high protein foods and do better on lower protein diets. Dog are omnivores like humans, not obligate carnivores like cats, and need some source of carbs for fuel.

 

Good luck!

100% agree. Our Rainey had pancreatitis and displayed the same symptoms, the bowing/stretching (a LOT) and looking at her stomach and vomiting, too. Her first attack ended up at the E-vet and after that we just ONLY fed no or low fat food/treats. About 2 years after her initial pancreatitis episode/diagnosis, one Sunday night she started to exhibit the same symptoms (no vomiting though), and it turned out to be BLOAT (we thought another P. attack). Luckily we got her to the E-vet in time for them to do surgery before her stomach flipped. I'm not trying to scare you with the bloat! (and if your girl had bloat by now she wouldn't be with you, not trying to be blunt - what I mean is it kills quickly).

 

good luck and hope your girl gets better!

[JustJamAA]

I'm in the UK. I've never heard of ragweed!

 

She hasn't lost her appetite though, that's the only thing that's stumping me - she's the first to the food bowl and will race to the fridge whenever she hears it open.

 

How would you know it's hookworm if the test comes back negative? what are the other tests to perform to confirm? She's been treated for worms now 3 times in a month - is there another treatment I should try? She's had advocate x 2, panacur 15mls for 3 days and Droncit.

 

I will certainly drop the greenies as I am wondering if that's the cause. The high fat makes sense.

 

I'm not sure what to feed if not the dry/wet food. I'd prefer to feed natural homecooked meals but it's all very confusing. Is there a good pet food brand that anyone could recommend?

 

thanks

[NeylasMom]

I wouldn't expect her to not be hungry with worms, on the contrary, I might expect her to be more hungry. There's really no other way to confirm them. If you want proof, you'd need to do multiple fecals (generally people do 1 fecal sample per day for 3 days). Though it is possible you'd see anemia on blood work.

 

It's also possible it's not worms, but to me that's still the most likely culprit. The pancreatitis is a good thought as well though. There's a blood test for that. I would explore both options. My first step would be blood work - full panel and test for pancreatitis - and a new fecal and see what turns up.

[greysmom]

Look in the next thread down (or it might be a few away by the time you read this) for the thread titled with Prison Protocol. This is a treatment protocol developed at a program that trains dogs using prisoners so they have a concentrated set of dogs to experiment on. There are links to see what the treatment medicine is and at what time spans. Since you are not in the US you may be able to get rid of them with only another round of normal dosing with what you used before.

 

We have many members here from the UK. You can try and put in the search parameters "England" or UK, "high quality foods" and any others you can think of. Maybe some of them will drop in here and let you know what they use.

 

When researching foods look for between 20-25% protein content, and less than 15% fat content. The lower fat content you can find the better, if it is pancreatitis.

[JustJamAA]

thanks everyone, some food for thought here to discuss with the vet, so it's really helpful thanks so much for your ideas xx

[JohnF]

I'm in the UK. I've never heard of ragweed!

 

 

Ragwort. As kids we'd pick it out of hay fields and hedges because it is seriously bad for horses even dried in winter food.

 

https://www.farminguk.com/News/NFU-warns-farmers-to-be-wary-of-ragwort-poisoning_46414.html

[JustJamAA]

Hey - sorry, but I saw something weird in both the dogs poo today.

 

I have no idea what it is but it was undigested, rectangles od something with a rubbery consistency. They were perfectly shaped - rectangles - so not torn up pieces of a toy.

 

There were quite a lot too. The consistency was almost like cooked pasta and the colour like a pedigree dental chew - but the shape was weird. In one poo i saw 5. 5 perfect rectangles - about 1 inch in length and 1/2 inch wide. Totally straight corners.

 

I have no idea what it is or where they have got it from.

 

All they ate yesterday was cooked chicken, their kibble (dark brown and round), and their wet food.

 

And in saying that the dog who seemed to be suffering from tummy ache does seem better today.

 

What on earth could it be? :-s

[palmettobug]

Do you have neighbors/close to a pedestrian path where someone could throw something into your yard and/or potty area?

[cleptogrey]

100% agree. Our Rainey had pancreatitis and displayed the same symptoms, the bowing/stretching (a LOT) and looking at her stomach and vomiting, too. Her first attack ended up at the E-vet and after that we just ONLY fed no or low fat food/treats. About 2 years after her initial pancreatitis episode/diagnosis, one Sunday night she started to exhibit the same symptoms (no vomiting though), and it turned out to be BLOAT (we thought another P. attack). Luckily we got her to the E-vet in time for them to do surgery before her stomach flipped. I'm not trying to scare you with the bloat! (and if your girl had bloat by now she wouldn't be with you, not trying to be blunt - what I mean is it kills quickly).

 

good luck and hope your girl gets better!

BINGO!!!! that's what i was thinking, pancreatitis. it can be a lesser inflammation, but still uncomfortable.

as to leg licking, the repetitive licking releases endorphins and it's the dog soothing itself if she does don't have typical allergic reactions- red, biting, raw, skin. i asked about the licking since i was sure that something was achy. the vet explained the self-medicating, soothing to me.

yes, it can be worms mixed with something else-generally my dogs who had hookworms were thin, but not in pain.

the whining sounds like discomfort

the snorting can be post nasal drip or just vocalization

 

do ask your vet about pancreatitis, it's pretty common in GH. low fat diet and antibiotics and usually they mend unless it's chronic. what does the stool smell like? undigested food wreaks to high heaven.

easy to try rice and boiled white chicken(pulverize it and mix it in w/ the rice) for a week or so and see if she feels better. easy to call and discuss options w/ the vet on the phone rather than spend $$$ on another visit. you can also just drop stool samples off w/o a visit.

 

do keep your vet in the loop! allergies can be bad this time of year, but it doesn't sound like allergies.

best of luck

[greysmom]

When was the last time they had a Greenie or other commercial chew? We have one here that breaks down into little squares in their poo. If their stomachs are upset the chew passes pretty much undigested.

[JustJamAA]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I did wonder whether a passerby could have tossed something into our garden that's inappropriate, but I also do think it looks like a dental chew. We won't be giving any of them out anymore! (What do you use instead?)

 

I think the pancreatitis could be the issue, probably a mild case but with her being de-wormed 4 times in a month with 3 different wormers, I can't imagine that, that is still the problem. I wouldn't rule it out entirely but at this point I think it's worth considering other causes. That said the last 24 hours there's been much less prayer position but after her dinner last night she was doing her whinning but this morning she had bags and bags of energy, racing round the garden like a complete loon! haha.

 

I think I will try the rice and chicken diet - this will sound like a dumb question but how do you cook it? (I'm only asking this as in - do buy a full chicken and just boil it, or part roast it, or do you get chicken thighs and bake them - and with the rice, is it just plain easy cook white rice, or do you use a wholemeal rice etc?)

 

 

I did also wonder about allergies, I read that ex-racers going from their kennels and into a home can cause mild allergies as they adapt to central heating, dust and dust mites etc and that makes sense. I know when I stay at hotels I wake up all stuffy usually because the air conditioning has been left on all night!

[cleptogrey]

as to rice and chicken the easiest way is to boil the chicken w/ the rice. cheap chicken breast, make sure there is no skin, too much water and cheap cheap rice and cook away. it should be a porridge when your finished cooking it. i warm the "congee"(that's what the rice has turned into) and add low sodium chicken stock to it when it's served. i do remove the breast and pulse in my food processor and mix it in as well. this way the chicken is not being picked out and it last longer.

 

for loose poops, my whippet's breeder told me about clay- rx vitamins makes it and amazon carries it. better than owelo carrots or pumpkin. that stuff is remarkable. but honestly, your dog may just need for the flare up to settle or antibiotics.

 

i would see what happens w/ the congee first, then talk to your vet.

 

have you ever checked the filters in the AC at motels? they are gross!! when i stay at a motel for a show i ALWAYS clean them. but it's guaranteed that i wake up w/ swollen eyes....unless it's the la Quinta in Salem, Va. The women who run it treat that motel like their own home!!! it's spotless!

 

btw, my retired vet had told me that felix had giardiasis when he displayed many of the symptoms that you mentioned. p.s......it was pancreatitis stating at a young age. the Flagyl administered worked, but i'm sure the diagnosis was off.

[JustJamAA]

as to rice and chicken the easiest way is to boil the chicken w/ the rice. cheap chicken breast, make sure there is no skin, too much water and cheap cheap rice and cook away. it should be a porridge when your finished cooking it. i warm the "congee"(that's what the rice has turned into) and add low sodium chicken stock to it when it's served. i do remove the breast and pulse in my food processor and mix it in as well. this way the chicken is not being picked out and it last longer.

 

for loose poops, my whippet's breeder told me about clay- rx vitamins makes it and amazon carries it. better than owelo carrots or pumpkin. that stuff is remarkable. but honestly, your dog may just need for the flare up to settle or antibiotics.

 

i would see what happens w/ the congee first, then talk to your vet.

 

have you ever checked the filters in the AC at motels? they are gross!! when i stay at a motel for a show i ALWAYS clean them. but it's guaranteed that i wake up w/ swollen eyes....unless it's the la Quinta in Salem, Va. The women who run it treat that motel like their own home!!! it's spotless!

 

btw, my retired vet had told me that felix had giardiasis when he displayed many of the symptoms that you mentioned. p.s......it was pancreatitis stating at a young age. the Flagyl administered worked, but i'm sure the diagnosis was off.

 

 

thanks! that's so helpful! and to ask another daft question - what portion size do you give? Mine are 30kg. How many grams of this would you give per meal? (they are fed twice a day - 12 hours a part).

You think your retired vet made the wrong diagnosis with giardiasis? What do you think it was?

How long should a dog be on the chicken and rice diet? I'm guessing they miss out on nutrients long term. Dog diet is my biggest area for improvement/learning curve!

Edited October 17, 2018 by JustJamAA

[cleptogrey]

PORTION At least 2 cups per meal, usually 3xs a day

 

Once he was tested and showed elevated pancreatitis enzymes I realized the symptoms were the same as Giardia. Giardia is difficult to spot testing wise, it is possible that he had it. How long can dogs live on rice.....in my experience YEARS!

Edited October 17, 2018 by cleptogrey

[PatricksMom]

This doesn't sound like the whole problem, but have you checked her anal glands? With all the digestive issues, I wonder if they might be bothering her at this point on top of whatever else is going on.