Kidney Disease

[EllenEveBaz]

It's been a long time (thank goodness) since I've had to deal with a kidney dog and I've forgotten most of my knowledge. Scout lived a good life for years with homecooked diet moderately low in protein and as little phosphorus as I could manage. His last 5 months were a slippery slope ushered in by a bout of pancreatitis. The symptoms I could see were lethargy, loss of appetite and weight, and inability to hold urine.

 

Azodyl is a supplement that does not have good scholarly reviews. It's marketed as a probiotic for dogs and cats with kidney disease. I tried it on Scout on a "can't hurt might help" referral from someone else, and he really did seem to perk up on it his last couple of months. I would try it again based on that one experience. He also got acupuncture starting with the initial diagnosis of kidney disease.

 

Scout did not seem to be in pain, just gradually lost energy and muscle mass. He ate, just less and less. There was a dog door but he couldn't always make it in time; I carpeted the house with cotton pee pads for humans and kept the washing machine going. Scout stayed himself, sweet and strong and gentlemanly, to the very end. We would go for short walks at night that summer when it was cooler; I will always remember his interest in the night world, even lifting his head often to seemingly study the sky and the moon. I let him go before he got too weak or began showing other symptoms.

 

Ear scritches to Felix and hugs to you and Joe.

[XTRAWLD]

From what i understand it's not always a low protein that helps, it's the low phosphorus. Unfortunately this isn't shown on many labels. As a new additive, you can try couscous. Super low on phosphorus and different enough to encourage eating. Other low phosphorus items include egg noodles, pearl barley and then of course rice and macaroni. Low protein kibble diets fall into single digit percentages believe it or not, and as a result, often a lower phosphorus count too.

[cleptogrey]

thanks you, just looked this up. i respect the Mayo Clinic site

https://www.mayoclinic.org/food-and-nutrition/expert-answers/faq-20058408

 

https://www.davita.com/kidney-disease/diet-and-nutrition/lifestyle/handpicked-low-phosphorus-foods-for-a-kidney-diet/e/7475

 

this stuff is $$$ and is basically what i'm making, just in a dehydrated form . it came up on my searches for low phosporous dog foods

https://www.drharveys.com/products/dogs/1-canine-health-miracle-dog-food

 

i'm going to try baby food oatmeal. it's finer and might mix in better.

[cleptogrey]

check this out:

Azodyl contains three beneficial bacteria: Enterococcus thermophilus, Lactobacilus acidophilus, and Bifidobacterium longum and a prebiotic (psyllium).

 

VETRI SCIENCE( which i use):

 

Rice Flour, Vegetable Cellulose, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Brevis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Thermophilus Fermentation Product, Vegetable Stearate.

[XTRAWLD]

Glad i could help. Ive been on that davita site before. Basically if you are homecooking for your pup, you may as well play along and make a meal for you to eat!

[cleptogrey]

Glad i could help. Ive been on that davita site before. Basically if you are homecooking for your pup, you may as well play along and make a meal for you to eat!

Hahaha......No tripe for us!! But the short grain Japanese rice and yams.....that's another story.

[cleptogrey]

quick question, any of you into jean dodds and her cleansing diets.http://www.nutriscan.org/knowledge-center/cleansing-diets.html she does mention one that pertains to challenged kidney, but her website mentions not for kidney disease. personally i'm not into her train of thought, but someone local steered me that way. just curious. it's very similar to the home made diets listed in Davita but includes milk thistle. i always watch out for herbs, and i use an acupuncturist all the time. but she is trained and careful.

 

i also decided to put him back on a b12 and amino acid vitamin. he responded well when his very first screwed up blood work came back a year and a half ago.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003PQYLI8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited July 3, 2018 by cleptogrey

[XTRAWLD]

Milk thistle and SAMe are good for the liver, I assume kidney too? but Ryder just cannot tolerate milk thistle or denamarin. For a test (IMO for what it's worth) buy a small bottle of milk thistle (tabs) and see if it's tolerated before you get spendy on this. Tolerated as no D and still has an appetite.

[cleptogrey]

SAMe?

 

I was surprised to see liver cleanse as a suggestion. That's why I am asking.also, I'll be frank, to me less is more, a simple vitamin or oil,food change with dogs. I'll do traditional meds faster than I will for myself. I haven't observed anyone whose dog who were treated holistically who didn't ultimately need traditional meds. Opps I hope I didn't open a can of worms!

 

The high carbs are finally kicking in. I'll be purchasing some tilapia at Costco this week, he will have 3 solid low fat protein options. And he is going on a maintance dose of amoxicillin. Unhealthy shedding, but his appetite is up. We shall watch and see and stay well stocked in animal crackers!

Edited July 3, 2018 by cleptogrey

[EllenEveBaz]

I assume you've seen this site? http://dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html Nothing much new on it from what's already been posted, but I found it helpful when I was cooking for Scout.

[cleptogrey]

THANK YOU ELLEN!!!! i did not run across this one. excellent, great resource!

[XTRAWLD]

I don't think the kidney has the ability to heal itself like the liver does, which is why milk thistle and SAMe (look up Denamarin for example) are helpful to regenerate the liver - so I, like you, am on the fence about if you should invest in any of this to see any benefits - since you are focusing more on a kidney issue - just my two cents.

 

Omega 3's are also known to be really really good for the organs, and we know what it can do for skin and fur - maybe it'll help with the shedding, so I'd say that in the very least is an easy inclusion for you. I use Omega 3-6-9 from Springtime https://www.springtimeinc.com/product/omega-3-6-9-fish-oil-for-dogs-skin-coat/Natural-Dog-Supplements No idea if it's helping, but I think it couldn't hurt! It's easy to dose and Ryder readily eats it whole as opposed to splashing oil on the food that might turn him off of a meal. The capsules though are easy to puncture and squeeze onto food if you wanted instead.

 

To be honest, if he's eating now, and putting on weight (or at least maintaining it) just enjoy him and don't stress too too much with giving him too many new things. New things also create a stress on the body and his tummy. You are doing great!

Edited July 4, 2018 by XTRAWLD

[cleptogrey]

Thank you, as I mentioned earlier everyone has been really helpful and supportive. GT has worked like a fine oiled Machine!

Edited July 4, 2018 by cleptogrey

[MaryJane]

I don't know Costco's prices for Tilapia but, Walmart has a 4 pound frozen for about 13.50. Each of the fillets are individually wrapped in a vacuum bag - only problem is that sometimes they don't do the vacuum right and then the bag is loose around the fillet. It is from China but, all the other places are almost double in price. I buy a few of these each month for Lucy (seizures and IBD).

 

How much is the tilapia at Costco's ?

[cleptogrey]

way too $$ at costco....$5 and change per pound. i need to check out the asian markets, might luck out there. mean while, tripe and chicken will do!

[cleptogrey]

UPDATE, which is not good.

the last reading that i posted was in june. i went to the vet on monday to re-access felix's meds since he's loosing weight.i couldn't do it before Dewey since i knew i would be sitting in our room vending and crying all weekend. the vet and joe and i had a long discussion last night. here are the changes. also, he is showing signs of L.S. a couple of people looked at him at dewey and mentioned the Greythealth article on it. i shared it w/ my vet, she perfers prednisone to depromedol since it's easier to stop and wash out of their system. hopefully the prednisone will pick up his appetite. she is keeping him on amoxicillin since her experience is infections since the immune system will be compromised. what's crazy is the little bit that he is eating is green tripe, toasted white bread, rice and ground chicken breast are the only things on the kidney diets what he will eat.

 

his pancreatic #s are CRAZY!!!! he has also dropped now a total of 12.bs. my vet doesn't know how he he is standing up! we are giving prednisone a run, hopefully that will pick up his appetite. unfortunately we are on a limited income so crazy testing is out of the question and respectfully my vet will not push.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by cleptogrey

[tbhounds]

Ask your vet to dispense Entyce. It will help his appetite.

[Batmom]

Just sending along some hugs.

[XTRAWLD]

I might be missing something, but is this now confirmation of pancreatitis and not a kidney issue? If you dont focus on kidney type food, is he willing to eat anything else? Have you tried a renal kibble and/or wet diet? Even if it's to pulverize the kibble to mix with chicken, etc. Also I worry that the amox might be messing with his appetite. How long has he been on it?

 

Kasey was on pred for many years to control allergies and it actually really helped with LS as well. Gabapentin however is your best friend. It really will make a difference there. Lift the tail and just use a pen cap and gently trace a semi circle on the left side of the anus and see how much it reacts, then try the right side. If you see limited reaction, its a laymans way to consider LS. I've had several vets try this btw.

Edited October 11, 2018 by XTRAWLD

[cleptogrey]

he has had pancreatitis all along, hence the low fat diet which is not really a kidney diet. that's why he can't eat either kd or id foods. too much protein in the ID diets, too much fat in the KD diets. i am pulverizing chicken, first cooking it in white rice and serving raw green tripe and yams and toast. he now seems to only eat after dark, it hits him and he nibbles all night until bed. maybe he's getting 1 cup of rice down.

 

as to gabapentin i went that route. he did not respond to it, i have tried combos of gab/metacam/tramadol for over a month. there was no noticeable result w/ the gabapentin. hopefully the predisone will work on both appetite and back.

 

unfortunately we do not know what's going on with the pancreas the #s have really jumped and this is being on a low fat diet. most likely we think some growths, but i am not intervening w/ surgery and hope to keep him comfortable for as long as possible.

[EllenEveBaz]

[XTRAWLD]

For some reason, they eat like pigs near bedtime, and snack during the night. I'd say keep that bowl full in the evenings so he can eat as much as he wants. Hard to do with leaving chicken out, but if he's willing to eat at that time, at least he's eating! Sending healing thoughts your way.

[cleptogrey]

For some reason, they eat like pigs near bedtime, and snack during the night. I'd say keep that bowl full in the evenings so he can eat as much as he wants. Hard to do with leaving chicken out, but if he's willing to eat at that time, at least he's eating! Sending healing thoughts your way.

thanks for the good thought. I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD- THE AMOXICILLIN! he's off of it and is looking for food!

 

i wish i could leave the bowl filled at night but our whippet is a stealth bomber, one never hears him steal food and that wisenheimer would weigh 60#s if left up to his own divices! felix will even share his bowl with him! i do crate jamie during the day so felix can eat, but your right it's night time munch outs ......it must be the sound of the TV!

 

crazy #s, i'm sorta waiting for some type of growth to have affected the pancreas. the lyme has done it's damage....

[XTRAWLD]

I've often noticed appetite issues when on amox or any antiobiotic for that matter. It's promising his appetite is already improving! Keep him comfy and give him food. Every day is a gift - and as long as he's happy, that's the most important thing right?

[cleptogrey]

Yup,as long as he still catches his jolly balls!