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Help! Both My Dogs Distressed And Not Eating

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They don't get any vitamins or supplements. And no essential oils.

No bird bath (or any other standing water) they can get into.

 

I didn't realize all history with the chicken jerky until I started doing research this past weekend. Guess we will be avoiding that from now on. Too bad as its probably their favorite treat.

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A bell just rang when you mentioned San Antonio. The opossum and skunks are out big time. Eating feces?

 

I was living in Alta vista for 3 months, between the feral cats and skunks Felix picked up something. Then we stayed in Alamo heights and watched the nocturnal opossum run wild! Lots of bacteria out there, not to mention the street dogs.and that crazy rain! The parks are filled with run off....

Edited by cleptogrey

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Any updates?


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Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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I picked up Rhone last evening from the Urgent Care/Internal Medicine clinic after he spent 36 hours there. Not cheap. New floors will get put off another year. Anyways... They did IV therapy and antibiotics. Over the 36 hours his liver levels improved significantly. Sent us home with a number of meds including an appetite stimulant. They took him off the Denamarin as they felt having an appetite and eating was best at this point. And he is eating. Not like normal but better. Results from the lepto and tick panel won't be back until early next week. As of this point we still don't know what caused it but the vet feels its probably a toxin. They could maybe confirm with a liver biopsy but didn't feel it was justified with the improvement he was now making.

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Glad to hear he's doing better! I feel your pain on the specialist bills, but they are worth their weight in gold. Is Lizzie back to normal?

 

Most inportant thing is that they get back to normal, but darn the mystery is driving me crazy! And of course you want to know so it doesn't happen again.


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Glad to hear he's doing better! I feel your pain on the specialist bills, but they are worth their weight in gold. Is Lizzie back to normal?

 

Most inportant thing is that they get back to normal, but darn the mystery is driving me crazy! And of course you want to know so it doesn't happen again.

 

Lizzie was never as bad as Rhone. Which makes since if its a toxin as Rhone will eat anything and everything without a second thought where Lizzie is more finicky. She is off all meds now and eating fairly well. Not back to normal but getting there. No longer showing any signs of distress or discomfort.

Unless one of the two remaining tests come back positive I fear I will never know what caused it.

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Costco accepts returns of opened partially used products even w/o a receipt.

 

Best of luck, sounds like maybe valley fever or a toxicin. anaplasmosis is from what I have read a more northern disease.

 

 

I also though some of these tick diseases were more "northern" however, it seems that the infection locations caused by the ticks are spreading over the last decade or so.

 

http://www.dogsandticks.com/diseases_in_your_area.php

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Rhone update: Some of his bloodwork came back and he is positive for Babesia and Erlichia. The vet said while some of the symptoms (loss of appetite, depression, lethargy) are the same as what he was showing the liver issues are not typically. So there may be two things going on. My dogs are on NexGard religiously every month (Frontline Plus before NexGard came out) and I don't take them to the woods and haven't ever seen a tick on them. The vet said he may have had it in the past and just carries anti-bodies now but we are doing another round of antibiotics just in case. Rhone has a follow up for bloodwork tomorrow to check his liver levels. Lepto results are still pending.

 

Both dogs are acting more like normal now. Energy levels are not where they used to be but the playfulness is there. They are enthusiastic about eating again although not back to pre-illness amounts but the vet said that may take a month or two. Now I need to take Lizzie back in and get her tested for Erlichia and Babeshia.

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What type of TBD tests did you run? Were they just titers (and if so, what were the results) or did they run PCR tests? If you just got low titer levels there's a very good chance that's from exposure while at the track and could be unrelated. Still makes sense to treat with ABs, though if there is an active Babesia infection I would check on what the current best treatment protocol is. Used to be two doses of Imidocarb spaced apart, but that could carry some nasty side effects so I think maybe the thinking has changed?


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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My hound has Babesia and likely came to me with it (raced primarily in FL). I found out when he tried to donate blood. He has been asymptomatic for the entire year I've owned him, but it's something his vet and I monitor.


Sarah with P Kay Ruger "Rogue"

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UPDATE: Both dogs have ehrlichia.

 

Every year at their vet visit the have the simple blood test done. Lizzie in August and Rhone in December where both clear. Lizzie and Rhone after they started showing symptoms in mid to late March were clear with the vet test. The internal medicine specialist sent Rhone's blood off to a lab in one of the Carolina's for more detailed analysis (sorry but the PCR/Titters talk is foreign to me) which took a week but showed Ehrlichia. Took them both back to the vet earlier this week and now both show positive at the Vet's quick test. Both are now on a month long Doxycycline treatment (150mg twice a day).

 

How? I would love to know. My dogs get NexGard the first of every month. I live in a typical suburban home. Lawn (mowed), with trees and landscaping. But i've never seen a tick on me or the dogs. And that's the only place they've been other than walks around the neighborhood and unless the ticks are jumping off the sidewalk onto them... Nor have they been around any other animals. The exception is they were boarded the last weekend in February (~2-3 weeks before they started showing symptoms) when my daughter and I went out of town. I contacted the boarder and they said their dogs were fine and they didn't know of any issues.

 

The reading i've done says Ehrlichia is only transmitted by tick bites. So they both got bit by and had their NexGard fail at the same time?

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Another possibility is that both got infected before you adopted them and the stress from being kenneled stressed their immune systems and the infection became active. I think that's the most likely explanation if indeed both of their symptoms are from the Ehrlichia.


gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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UPDATE: Both dogs have ehrlichia.

 

Every year at their vet visit the have the simple blood test done. Lizzie in August and Rhone in December where both clear. Lizzie and Rhone after they started showing symptoms in mid to late March were clear with the vet test. The internal medicine specialist sent Rhone's blood off to a lab in one of the Carolina's for more detailed analysis (sorry but the PCR/Titters talk is foreign to me) which took a week but showed Ehrlichia. Took them both back to the vet earlier this week and now both show positive at the Vet's quick test. Both are now on a month long Doxycycline treatment (150mg twice a day).

 

How? I would love to know. My dogs get NexGard the first of every month. I live in a typical suburban home. Lawn (mowed), with trees and landscaping. But i've never seen a tick on me or the dogs. And that's the only place they've been other than walks around the neighborhood and unless the ticks are jumping off the sidewalk onto them... Nor have they been around any other animals. The exception is they were boarded the last weekend in February (~2-3 weeks before they started showing symptoms) when my daughter and I went out of town. I contacted the boarder and they said their dogs were fine and they didn't know of any issues.

 

The reading i've done says Ehrlichia is only transmitted by tick bites. So they both got bit by and had their NexGard fail at the same time?

On the flip side, this is treatable! Be happy you ultimately found a cause as some of us don't (I didn't). Thank you very much for the update. (I'm assuming also the Lepto came back negative - just thought I'd ask).


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10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 2010
12.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015

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Another possibility is that both got infected before you adopted them and the stress from being kenneled stressed their immune systems and the infection became active. I think that's the most likely explanation if indeed both of their symptoms are from the Ehrlichia.

I think this is the most likely. They could have been bitten/infected years ago and had it lie dormant until stress (boarding) and/or age ( weakened immune system) activated the disease. But, the good news is, you can treat it and they will be fine.

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Rhone update: Some of his bloodwork came back and he is positive for Babesia and Erlichia. The vet said while some of the symptoms (loss of appetite, depression, lethargy) are the same as what he was showing the liver issues are not typically. So there may be two things going on. My dogs are on NexGard religiously every month (Frontline Plus before NexGard came out) and I don't take them to the woods and haven't ever seen a tick on them. The vet said he may have had it in the past and just carries anti-bodies now but we are doing another round of antibiotics just in case. Rhone has a follow up for bloodwork tomorrow to check his liver levels. Lepto results are still pending.

 

Both dogs are acting more like normal now. Energy levels are not where they used to be but the playfulness is there. They are enthusiastic about eating again although not back to pre-illness amounts but the vet said that may take a month or two. Now I need to take Lizzie back in and get her tested for Erlichia and Babeshia.

 

 

The tick diseases are getting much common and, the symptoms you described fit the symptoms for Babesia and Erlichia and to a lessor degree, Anaplasmosis and Lyme. If they are doing the tick panel, they are checking for antibodies and that means the initial infection could have occurred previously - you can use the PCR tests to determine whether it is an active infection although that is pricy and many will simply move ahead with 3 to 4 weeks of antibiotics.

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UPDATE: Both dogs have ehrlichia.

 

Every year at their vet visit the have the simple blood test done. Lizzie in August and Rhone in December where both clear. Lizzie and Rhone after they started showing symptoms in mid to late March were clear with the vet test. The internal medicine specialist sent Rhone's blood off to a lab in one of the Carolina's for more detailed analysis (sorry but the PCR/Titters talk is foreign to me) which took a week but showed Ehrlichia. Took them both back to the vet earlier this week and now both show positive at the Vet's quick test. Both are now on a month long Doxycycline treatment (150mg twice a day).

 

How? I would love to know. My dogs get NexGard the first of every month. I live in a typical suburban home. Lawn (mowed), with trees and landscaping. But i've never seen a tick on me or the dogs. And that's the only place they've been other than walks around the neighborhood and unless the ticks are jumping off the sidewalk onto them... Nor have they been around any other animals. The exception is they were boarded the last weekend in February (~2-3 weeks before they started showing symptoms) when my daughter and I went out of town. I contacted the boarder and they said their dogs were fine and they didn't know of any issues.

 

The reading i've done says Ehrlichia is only transmitted by tick bites. So they both got bit by and had their NexGard fail at the same time?

 

 

Most people think that the tick treatments will remove any chance of tick borne diseases - that is not true. With Lyme, the tick can transmit the Lyme bacterium within 48 hours. The same is true with Erlichia and Babsesia and in one of these - the transmission time is a few hours after being bitten. Any tick treatments do not prevent your dog from being bitten (as far as I know) - they just say that the tick will be killed by 48 hours - so that leaves the possibility of infection before the 48 hour kill time.

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Some of the newer ones do. Seresto is one that does not require the tick to bite and instead kills on contact.

Edited by NeylasMom

gallery_12662_3351_862.jpg

Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart

"The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong."

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Some of the newer ones do. Seresto is one that does not require the tick to bite and instead kills on contact.

 

This study is real long to read but, interesting. There are points in the study that percentage kills falls from high 96-99% to about 90% so, can't really say that kills on contact all the time. Very similar to birth control - works most of the time but, not all the time.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3433312/

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just stay on top of things. you will know if there is a flare up, symptoms will reoccur. felix is on his 3 round of treatment for anaplasmosis in a year! and this time he tested positive for lyme as well. i did have his stool checked looking for giardiasis or crazy worms (tons of feral animals in my daughter's yard in alamo heights) - just incase he was going to win the trifecta! btw, i have only pulled one tick off of felix in 11 years and found one dead in his bedding. i vacuum like a maniac. so, the one that bit him must have been a crazy carrier!~

 

doxy does a # on this gut, so probiotics and don't be surprised if their tummies seem to go down hill for a while.

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I'm glad to hear they are in the mend. As stated above a few times, TBD's can lay dormant for a long time.

 

This is just an FYI in reference to Lepto. Dogs can STILL get Lepto even if they are up-to-date on their vaccines.


Wendy and The Whole Wherd. American by birth, Southern by choice.
So many right-winged Christians...so few lions.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"
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Denamarin needs to be given on an empty tummy, at least 2 hours before or 2 hours after a meal. It can be a liver life saver, as spoken from experience. I read mentions of time before meals, but I did want to share our Vet's instructions.

 

Also, as long as the liver values return to normal and there are no other liver issues, Denamarin can be stopped. Per the instructions of our Internal Vet.


Wendy and The Whole Wherd. American by birth, Southern by choice.
So many right-winged Christians...so few lions.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"
****OxyFresh Vendor ID is 180672239.****
804th_Wizard_1_.gif 804greytzu_sig.jpg8ec65641.gif

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