Hookworm!

[cgs]

Yeah, ew, no thanks.

[Bizeebee]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:23 PM, cgs said:

Yeah, ew, no thanks.

Yaaa, that's what I decided also.

[LaFlaca]

On 4/19/2019 at 12:06 PM, Bizeebee said:

Interesting, that's good to know. Weird that a fecal float doesn't detect adults - but your float definitely could have just missed seeing eggs. At least that means the Drontal should be worth it.

As far as wishing for a cheaper test, there is a way, but it involves some investment up front and your time. I looked into it but didn't end up pulling the trigger, but you can get a decent microscope on Amazon and run your own floats as often as you want. It's kind of an involved process (a lot of steps) and pretty gross (first step is to make poop water), but can definitely be done. I know I had found pretty good instructions for doing so on the web, back when I was thinking about it.

Can you share the link on how to do a float, please?

Edited April 22, 2019 by LaFlaca
because I can't think and type at the same time. : /

[Bizeebee]

23 minutes ago, LaFlaca said:

Can you share the link on how to do a float, please?

Kudos to your commitment

Here's a decent powerpoint about the process (not dog specific) https://www.nwvetstanwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Fecal-Examination-for-Parasites_2015_ppt-1.pdf

This is a nice, simple how-to video of the process  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe7v-xjiPww

Some of the explanations/videos talk about using a centrifuge, which I'm guessing no one has laying around, or really wants to buy. I think without one you just have to take your time dissolving the solution and waiting for things to float up.

So, there's obviously a few additional supplies you'll need, gloves, mixing container, sampler tool, straining cloth, and the slides for the microscope. One thing I noticed when I was looking was to make sure that the microscope you are choosing comes with slides, or you know the right ones to purchase in addition if it doesn't. With this style of sample/slide, you'll definitely need a microscope that lights from below. And, from my reading reviews when I was considering it, you definitely get what you pay for in microscopes - you don't have to break the bank, but if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Since, microscopically speaking, these eggs are large you don't need a scope with the strongest possible magnification, but if you're willing to pay a little more a lot of them will hook up to a computer and you can see the images a lot better than through the eye piece.

The other big thing you'll have to source is going to be the solution material, and since having the right specific gravity is important it's probably better to buy commercially made produce rather than mix your own.

This is just a google of 'fecal float solution' https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=fecal+float+solution 

I'm guessing some sources don't sell to consumers that aren't vets, but this link is showing it a WalMart online, so I think you definitely can find it.

Here's a nice list of how the different eggs/organisms look under the microscope - http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/fecal-float.html

 

Apologies if you're already familiar with using a microscope, but if you aren't I just wanted to say that (I think) it does take a bit to get used to it. I always had a heck of a time using one in school, getting my eyes to adjust looking into this teeny tiny hole and then having to search for or count things...it was tough. So, if you do take this plunge, try not to get discouraged

 

[LaFlaca]

1 hour ago, Bizeebee said:

Kudos to your commitment

Here's a decent powerpoint about the process (not dog specific) https://www.nwvetstanwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Fecal-Examination-for-Parasites_2015_ppt-1.pdf

This is a nice, simple how-to video of the process  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe7v-xjiPww

Some of the explanations/videos talk about using a centrifuge, which I'm guessing no one has laying around, or really wants to buy. I think without one you just have to take your time dissolving the solution and waiting for things to float up.

So, there's obviously a few additional supplies you'll need, gloves, mixing container, sampler tool, straining cloth, and the slides for the microscope. One thing I noticed when I was looking was to make sure that the microscope you are choosing comes with slides, or you know the right ones to purchase in addition if it doesn't. With this style of sample/slide, you'll definitely need a microscope that lights from below. And, from my reading reviews when I was considering it, you definitely get what you pay for in microscopes - you don't have to break the bank, but if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Since, microscopically speaking, these eggs are large you don't need a scope with the strongest possible magnification, but if you're willing to pay a little more a lot of them will hook up to a computer and you can see the images a lot better than through the eye piece.

The other big thing you'll have to source is going to be the solution material, and since having the right specific gravity is important it's probably better to buy commercially made produce rather than mix your own.

This is just a google of 'fecal float solution' https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=fecal+float+solution 

I'm guessing some sources don't sell to consumers that aren't vets, but this link is showing it a WalMart online, so I think you definitely can find it.

Here's a nice list of how the different eggs/organisms look under the microscope - http://www.pet-informed-veterinary-advice-online.com/fecal-float.html

 

Apologies if you're already familiar with using a microscope, but if you aren't I just wanted to say that (I think) it does take a bit to get used to it. I always had a heck of a time using one in school, getting my eyes to adjust looking into this teeny tiny hole and then having to search for or count things...it was tough. So, if you do take this plunge, try not to get discouraged

 

Thanks, Bizeebee!

[Time4ANap]

6 hours ago, LaFlaca said:

Can you share the link on how to do a float, please?

Where should we send our samples? 

[LaFlaca]

1 hour ago, Time4ANap said:

Where should we send our samples? 

Wonder how the USPS would feel about all the GT'ers mailing me their dog's poopies!?       EWWW!  

[Time4ANap]

8 minutes ago, LaFlaca said:

Wonder how the USPS would feel about all the GT'ers mailing me their dog's poopies!?       EWWW!  

Wonder if you have to use a poopstage stamp? 

[LaFlaca]

1 hour ago, Time4ANap said:

Wonder if you have to use a poopstage stamp? 

We're here all week, ladies and gentlemen!  

[Beachbum1]

On 4/18/2019 at 3:35 PM, Bizeebee said:

Just spitballing biology here (I'm not a vet, but maybe a couple will weigh in) - if he's negative for eggs, then by process of elimination isn't he probably also negative for adult worms? As far as I understand, Drontal only kills adult worms. Honest question - does your vet feel it's advisable to keep treating with Drontal if it seems like the things Drontal kills aren't there?

Whereas, the Advocate/Advantage Multi kills the eggs/larva that hide in the tissue, which obviously must still be there for the antigen test to come up positive.

Do you, or your vet (or anyone) know how long it takes for the body to show a negative antigen test after an infection?

I'm not sure of a good place to find Advocate (sorry), but we switched to a new drug (just moxidectin) called Coraxis so that we can do flea and tick prevention without doubling up on drugs. You might see if you can source that one cheaper than Advocate/Advantage Multi.

Jagger's Grey-savvy vet just suggested switching him from Advantage Multi to Coraxis, too. 

It's cheaper, and doesn't double up on the flea protection he gets from Nexgard.

[Jakeoregano]

It has been quite a while since I've posted an update on our hookworm experiences.  After over a year on once a month panacur and once a month advantage multi, back in march or so of this year we were advised to administer panacur 2 times a month (1st and 15th).  after 5-6 months doubling up, Max finally came back with a negative fecal for hooks for the first time this past August 2019.  However, we are still treating him in order to get at least 2 more months of clear fecal.  Through all of this, he has tolerated the panacur very well.  He is a little lethargic right after application of AM, but has suffered no ill effects that we can tell.  Strong appetite, and solid bowel movements. 

Now, to complicate matters, we have just welcomed another hound to the house this past weekend named Compton.  We got him from the foster family that was looking after him after he was rescued.  Although he was on an antiparasite regimen for about a month (I have the notes, but don't have them handy), we had his fecal test today and he is positive for hooks.  SO....we are going to try to avoid what we went through with Max and we are going to treat him bi-weekly with panacur starting immediately.  This is another reason why Max will continue on panacur for the near future until we get both hounds cleared.   We'll have to monitor how Compton handles the panacur; I'm hoping he does ok.

It just seems to be a fact of life now, rescuing these beauties comes with the enormous challenge of ridding them of these parasites without making them sick!

Will post in several months on our progres.

 

Cheers

 

[SallysDad]

Wanted to share our experience so far. We adopted in April 2019 and gave our girl (Sally) Drontal and Advantage Multi monthly, on a schedule staggered weekly (started with Advantage Multi, started Drontal 3 weeks later, another dose of Advantage Multi 1 week later, another Drontal 3 weeks later) for about 3 months. Her poops have always been on the verge of pudding, but were holding shape pretty well by the end of this course of treatment. She started having a really loud gurgly stomach with no appetite in the morning and some diarrhea a couple of weeks ago and we finally brought her (and a sample) to the vet this week and she came back positive for hookworms.

All the vet has prescribed is Panacur for three days, and then repeat for three more days in a couple of weeks. After reading this thread I'm a bit worried that this isn't going to be enough, especially given the course of treatment with Drontal and Advantage Multi that clearly didn't get rid of them (it's unlikely this is an environmental thing: she doesn't poop in our yard and is rarely around other dogs for much time unsupervised). I'm also a little concerned because when I asked the vet if she should be on Advantage Multi in addition to the Panacur, the vet told me that Advantage Multi was only for fleas and ticks...

So we're going to reach out to our adoption group for advice and may be looking for another vet who is more versed with greyhounds too. In the meantime, I'm planning on getting a bunch of doses of Advantage Multi to start her on that again. And once we're through the Panacur and get her re-tested, if she's still positive I may get some Drontal as well and try the Prison Greyhounds program, or something similar. Latest link to it is here: https://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm%207-2018.pdf

Edit: Thought I should share a photo too since this is my first post :).

Edited October 6, 2019 by SallysDad
Adding photo

[SallysDad]

Oh and I should mention, Sally raced in Florida. Thought it might be relevant since I noticed Florida was mentioned a couple times in this thread ...

[Bizeebee]

On 10/5/2019 at 10:19 PM, SallysDad said:

the vet told me that Advantage Multi was only for fleas and ticks..

This is wrong, and honestly, I'd personally be switching vets if a medical professional told me something so factually inaccurate - all they have to do is read the box. Probably an honest mistake, but a mistake that could cost a dog serious quality of life.

Not only does AM not prevent ticks, it does help with many varieties of worm, including hooks. https://www.bayerdvm.com/products/advantage-multi-for-dogs-and-cats/

We did the as-written Prison Protocol for 6mo and are hook free since early this year. If I was to do it again I think I'd do Coraxis instead of AM (same active ingredient) so that I could also use a tick preventer that wasn't a collar. Lots of people like the amended version(s) that are a little less intense; we didn't want to mess around.

[Daks]

On 10/5/2019 at 10:05 PM, SallysDad said:

Oh and I should mention, Sally raced in Florida. Thought it might be relevant since I noticed Florida was mentioned a couple times in this thread ...

You're right- three days of panacur will not cut it. It seems like Moxidectin (Advantage Multi/Coraxis) is the key ingredient in treating hookworms.

I would stick with the alternating of Drontal plus and AM. It can take a long time to get rid of hookworms, we have been treating for almost a year. 

[PaddysDad]

On 10/7/2019 at 3:35 PM, Bizeebee said:

We did the as-written Prison Protocol for 6mo and are hook free since early this year. If I was to do it again I think I'd do Coraxis instead of AM (same active ingredient) so that I could also use a tick preventer that wasn't a collar. Lots of people like the amended version(s) that are a little less intense; we didn't want to mess around.

We also did the prison program to the letter and have kept her on the Advocate/Advantage Multi monthly since the negative test.  So far all is good.  We had a relapse early in the process, which is why we kept her on the Advocate this time.  No problem with ticks, so the advocate works fine.  The other one is back on generic Heartguard Plus and no issues there either.  I would also advise to follow the prison protocol to the letter, although there is really no difference noted between the use of Drontal Plus or Panacur (or whatever brand name for the fenbendazole) if used according to the prison schedule.  I think the timing and the Moxidectin are the key on successful treatment.

[Time4ANap]

Petunia's Hookworm Update - 10/27/19

Petunia had a negative fecal test last week.   As a result of the previous diarrhea due to hooks, she at one time also had a UTI.  Last week's fecal was negative and her urine test was clean and all of the urine / kidney associated numbers were good!  One down, one to go.  Petunia had a 6 month course of Advantage Multi and Drontal Plus with the Advantage Multi given on the 1st of each month and the Drontal Plus given 3 weeks later each time.  We did not double up on the meds due to her age (11).  Petunia is now going to be switched over to Interceptor so that she is on something that will hopefully be a little easier on her.  We will retest her in 3 months,  Basically, she was on a modified version of Dr. Ng's modified hookworm protocol that was approved by our vet. 

Kate is also positive for hookworms but so far hasn't had any of the stomach distress like Petunia had from them.  Since she just became officially ours in the eyes of the adoption group, the only thing she has had up until now is her monthly Iverhart Max given by the group.  We are going to start the same course of meds and timing that Petunia had.  Both dogs will be tested in 3 months to see where we are. 

 

[Rach]

On 10/5/2019 at 11:19 PM, SallysDad said:

Wanted to share our experience so far. We adopted in April 2019 and gave our girl (Sally) Drontal and Advantage Multi monthly, on a schedule staggered weekly (started with Advantage Multi, started Drontal 3 weeks later, another dose of Advantage Multi 1 week later, another Drontal 3 weeks later) for about 3 months. Her poops have always been on the verge of pudding, but were holding shape pretty well by the end of this course of treatment. She started having a really loud gurgly stomach with no appetite in the morning and some diarrhea a couple of weeks ago and we finally brought her (and a sample) to the vet this week and she came back positive for hookworms.

All the vet has prescribed is Panacur for three days, and then repeat for three more days in a couple of weeks. After reading this thread I'm a bit worried that this isn't going to be enough, especially given the course of treatment with Drontal and Advantage Multi that clearly didn't get rid of them (it's unlikely this is an environmental thing: she doesn't poop in our yard and is rarely around other dogs for much time unsupervised). I'm also a little concerned because when I asked the vet if she should be on Advantage Multi in addition to the Panacur, the vet told me that Advantage Multi was only for fleas and ticks...

So we're going to reach out to our adoption group for advice and may be looking for another vet who is more versed with greyhounds too. In the meantime, I'm planning on getting a bunch of doses of Advantage Multi to start her on that again. And once we're through the Panacur and get her re-tested, if she's still positive I may get some Drontal as well and try the Prison Greyhounds program, or something similar. Latest link to it is here: https://prisongreyhounds.org/Hookworm 7-2018.pdf

Edit: Thought I should share a photo too since this is my first post :).

 

[Rach]

We gave our Lacey Drontal and Advantage Multi topical EVERY 2 WEEKS as suggested by the Prison Greyhound website. It took 20 weeks and 11 treatments but it worked. No more chronic hookworm. We had tried every other protocol suggested to us. We were told her muscle tissue was likely full of larvae and her situation was chronic. We had tried 3 or 4 different treatments as I recall. We thought she would always have it. The Prison Greyhound protocol is a tough tough regimen but our Lacey tolerated it. 26 weeks is the longest they had to treat a dog but they say it works every time. She is 4 and 63 pounds. Specifically we used Virbantel and then Drontal for the last 4 treatments. Now we give her Advantage Multi every 30 days. 

[Bizeebee]

On 11/12/2019 at 3:35 PM, Rach said:

We gave our Lacey Drontal and Advantage Multi topical EVERY 2 WEEKS as suggested by the Prison Greyhound website. It took 20 weeks and 11 treatments but it worked. No more chronic hookworm. We had tried every other protocol suggested to us. We were told her muscle tissue was likely full of larvae and her situation was chronic. We had tried 3 or 4 different treatments as I recall. We thought she would always have it. The Prison Greyhound protocol is a tough tough regimen but our Lacey tolerated it. 26 weeks is the longest they had to treat a dog but they say it works every time. She is 4 and 63 pounds. Specifically we used Virbantel and then Drontal for the last 4 treatments. Now we give her Advantage Multi every 30 days. 

Awesome to hear! We also had good luck with the unmodified Prison Protocol. Depending on where you are and your flea/tick needs, you could switch to Coraxis (instead of AM). We did that so that we could do a flea/tick combo oral and not be doubling up on meds (since the Coraxis keeps most worms in check).

[SallysDad]

A quick Sally update to this old thread...she is negative for hookworms! I know one test might not be conclusive but we are happy about it and will ask the vet to have her tested again soon. I honestly don't remember the specific treatment plan we did at this point, but we did a combo of Drontal and Coraxis to get rid of them. I'm now seeing from some websites that Coraxis might be discontinued?? I hope not, because it was the only thing we could combine with a flea and tick medicine without doubling up on some things. Anyway, here is Sally enjoying her hookworm-free life.